Bee Network - Tram replacement buses/service buses.

[mayneway]

Anyone know why tram users can’t use regular service buses when tram lines are closed?
This weekend saw the Ashton line closed with tram replacement buses in place, but us drivers driving the regular service buses, which often follow the same route as the tram replacement bus are told NOT to allow tram users to travel unless they buy a regular bus ticket.

I can understand this when it was all commercial and run by private companies but now it’s all TFGM why’s it such an issue?

 

[318266]

Simply put, the layers of capital and competition preventing such arrangements have merely been substituted for layers of public sector bureaucracy, which are especially prevalent in franchising arrangements.

 

[mayneway]

Simply put, the layers of capital and competition preventing such arrangements have merely been substituted for layers of public sector bureaucracy, which are especially prevalent in franchising arrangements.

It does seem that way.
Passengers don’t seem to know the difference between the two types of bus and it often leads to altercations.

 

[318266]

It does seem that way.
Passengers don’t seem to know the difference between the two types of bus and it often leads to altercations.

From the perspective of the controllers of the tram pot, they've already put on a bus, they don't need to give money to the bus pot if there's already a bus for them. In the world of the office boardroom, this is fiscal sensibility which cannot be contradicted and is their responsibility to you as a Greater Manchester taxpayer...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because the UK wouldn't know what integrated transport was if it belted them round the head. Even London doesn't fully integrate fares except at Travelcard/cap level.

It really is quite depressing.

In countries that do this properly there aren't "bus tickets" or "tram tickets", there are public transport tickets and you use the required combination of modes to reach your destination, while the social inclusivity issue of increasing bus fares to tram levels is dealt with by giving disadvantaged groups discount cards for all modes rather than restricting them to buses.

 

[LucyP]

You are forgetting budgets, accounting, cost centres and allocation. Everything has a budget. Every NHS Trust has a board of directors, a budget, a profit and loss account. Everything the hospital does has a cost allocated to it.

Replacement buses have been commissioned and costed and allocated. There are franchise agreements in place for normal service buses, which do not cover rail replacement.

Where in the world has a truly integrated system and how would it work in practice. A France wide travelcard for every form of public transport everywhere? Sounds good, but what use is it to the person who lives close to the Spanish border where it is nearly 700 miles to Calais, where they never go, but only 2 KM to Spain where they go often? What about the Spaniard who lives close to the French border where they go often, but he never goes to Malaga, 700 miles away? What about the Portuguese person who lives close to the Spanish border and so on.

 

[mangad]

From the perspective of the controllers of the tram pot, they've already put on a bus, they don't need to give money to the bus pot if there's already a bus for them. In the world of the office boardroom, this is fiscal sensibility which cannot be contradicted and is their responsibility to you as a Greater Manchester taxpayer...

I'd say that the tram budget could be used to add additional vehicles onto the routes that complement the tram line. But what's the betting that hiring coaches/buses works out cheaper?

That does assume you need additional vehicles full stop. Got this feeling I read recently that Transport for London are increasingly pointing people to standard buses when the tube's closed and there are sensible bus routes that can be used. It does seem like an approach that makes sense.

 

[Simon75]

Could be aswell Tram/rail replacement buses are technically 'free travel ' where a normal service you pay for

 

[mayneway]

Could be aswell Tram/rail replacement buses are technically 'free travel ' where a normal service you pay for

It’s not free travel. Passengers can only travel with a valid ticket.

 

[Simon75]

It’s not free travel. Passengers can only travel with a valid ticket.

What i meant, was drivers dont ask to see tickets

 

[mangad]

What i meant, was drivers dont ask to see tickets

It's been a while since I was on a tram replacement bus. Pre COVID I think. But when I did, the drivers were checking tickets. This was when the tram was closed for engineering works between Piccadilly and Deansgate-Castlefield.

 

[mayneway]

What i meant, was drivers dont ask to see tickets

Last time I did tram replacement work, and also rail replacement work it was down to the controller at the stop to check passengers tickets as they boarded.

 

[BusesOfTheNW]

I've used Metrolink replacement buses a lot over the past 5 or so years and almost every time I have had to show my ticket, I've even had disagreements with drivers who didn't believe my ticket was valid.

 

[Simon75]

I've used Metrolink replacement buses a lot over the past 5 or so years and almost every time I have had to show my ticket, I've even had disagreements with drivers who didn't believe my ticket was valid.

It must be a TFGM thing as my experience on national rail/TFL no one asks for or charges for tickets

 

[tomoufc]

I've used Metrolink replacement buses a lot over the past 5 or so years and almost every time I have had to show my ticket, I've even had disagreements with drivers who didn't believe my ticket was valid.

Wonder how that would work if you'd done a contactless tap in at the tram stop

 

[Numpt33]

It is because

From the perspective of the controllers of the tram pot, they've already put on a bus, they don't need to give money to the bus pot if there's already a bus for them. In the world of the office boardroom, this is fiscal sensibility which cannot be contradicted and is their responsibility to you as a Greater Manchester taxpayer...

it is because the budget signed off by the local authority allocated funds to bus, to trams etc. It is illegal (i.e. not legal, vs a crime) for a public authority to spend money in a way which has not been legally authorised by elected officers to the local authority.

Tram and bus management have completely different cost profiles, suppliers, staff, and technology. If you allow them access to a shared budget or dip into each others budgets (net revenue) one (tram) will end up more bloated and overindulged, and the other (buses) will be starved and threadbare. Over the long term this affects mantenance, reliability and pay in busland.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 May 2026 ==

I'd say that the tram budget could be used to add additional vehicles onto the routes that complement the tram line. But what's the betting that hiring coaches/buses works out cheaper?

That does assume you need additional vehicles full stop. Got this feeling I read recently that Transport for London are increasingly pointing people to standard buses when the tube's closed and there are sensible bus routes that can be used. It does seem like an approach that makes sense.

It's easier to put on rail replacement buses, than to amend a service registration for higher frequencies - especially given notice period requirements. I suspect this would be why.

 

[Ant158]

With the Rochdale line closure coming up, does this mean you’d have to go to the platform at Victoria tap in then go find the bus, and then for somewhere like Central Park have to get off the bus and tap out up the steps before continuing your journey?

 

[Tim33160]

With the Rochdale line closure coming up, does this mean you’d have to go to the platform at Victoria tap in then go find the bus, and then for somewhere like Central Park have to get off the bus and tap out up the steps before continuing your journey?

In short - yes!

Tram tickets are only accepted on the replacement bus and will not be accepted on numbered bus services.
Any valid Metrolink ticket is accepted on replacement bus services.

So you can buy tickets on your phone .... or use weekly tickets etc

https://tfgm.com/tram-improvement-works/victoria-and-rochdale-line-works

 

[M60lad]

To be honest from travelling on Metrolink Replacement services in the past considering how far and wide some operators come from to operate the services it does seem that Metrolink Ticket aren't rigorously checked to be honest and does seem to be rare that tickets are checked at terminal station of Replacement services either.