darylyates17
Member
I do raise a good point, TfGM could drop the funding for the evening 22A with the 612 covering the busier part of the 22A & 360,all depends on if they want to maintain the Warrington link.
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Bee Network Service/Route Discussion
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
On the matter of TfGM services exterior to its boundaries, has mention ever been made of through services running from the Marple Bridge/Mellor area into parts of Derbyshire?
as when arriva withdrawal the 362 Wigan to Chorley, as much as this inter worked with 575s, could easily have gone to St Helens and worked with 352s as it did when I was at arriva,
Some of the Mellor buses did - in the 1980s or so - did run into New Mills. And for a short while maybe 10-15 years ago, GMPTE did support a bus that ran to Rowarth, although I think it was a handful of journeys a week. I can't get into the RailwayMedia timetable archive to find the info - the site seems to be down. Extending the current 385 to Rowarth would be lovely as there is a great pub there. But I doubt it's on anyone's priorities list. And given how few houses there are up there, the market isn't going to be very big. The current 385 is pretty quiet near it's ends. I always suspect it only ends where it does because it's quiet road for the bus to turn round. There's not even a bus stop flag at the Shiloh Road terminus!
Whisky Papa
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I'm not sure when the Mellor - New Mills extension started, but certainly after deregulation. I recall seeing it on a route map at some point and being a little surprised this had been seen as worthwhile.
Up to at least summer 1985, Mellor was served by the 363 via Marple and 383 via Romiley, each hourly but part of a wider inter-timed groups of services on the Marple and Romiley corridors. Buses almost always swapped at Mellor Devonshire Arms ie out 363 back 383 or vice versa. However, on Mondays-Fridays, two pairs of morning journeys were extended to Mellor Moor End to allow shoppers from the higher reaches of Mellor to reach Marple; this required a reverse at the junction with Shiloh Road and thus had to be operated with a conductor. The expected 0900 383 from Stockport thus actually ran at 0855, returning from Moor End as a 363 at 0945 and dropping onto the 363's usual xx49 timing at the Devonshire Arms. The return trip was the 1135 363 from Stockport, returning from Moor End at 1218 as a 383 and running seven minutes later than the 383's usual xx15 from Devonshire Arms.
Looking at the Railway Media Timetable archive, the first timetable they have that shows the 363 going to New Mills and then Glossop, is from 1989. This is the timetable. Only East Midland services went to Glossop. (Worth a look to see what a confusing mess it is, with GM Buses, Stuarts, Rose Hill Coaches and East Midland all in the mix during the day.) Glossop doesn't appear to have lasted that long, but the buses were running to New Mills in the May 2003 timetable. Looks like the 363 ended in 2004, replaced by the 375 which stopped at Mellor.
There's a photo of the 363 reversing at the junction, apparently from 3 October 1986.
Whisky Papa
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^ Sorry, the link to the photo does not seem to work 
.
Thanks for the timetable links. I guess some of those journeys to Glossop were replacements for the pre-deregulation 360-2 group of services? I know Glossopdalle were involved at some point too, probably mid 1990s when my former scheduling colleague Pat Keeley was working for them. It was an area that was always slightly hazy in my mind, if I'm honest, even when doing schedules for it!
.Thanks for the timetable links. I guess some of those journeys to Glossop were replacements for the pre-deregulation 360-2 group of services? I know Glossopdalle were involved at some point too, probably mid 1990s when my former scheduling colleague Pat Keeley was working for them. It was an area that was always slightly hazy in my mind, if I'm honest, even when doing schedules for it!
adam rogan
Member
I remember just before the Bee Network when i was more frantic about going on as many bus routes as I could ,that there were two buses from Stockport to Macclesfield which were each every two hours but every hour when combined and I recall catching both of them(391/392) and they were quite well used for tendered routes but now one operates as a short within Cheshire East and the other running to Stockport every two hours.
The current Knutsford to Altrincham bus used to run to Northwich but this was was split into two seperate services perhsps due to it being too long.
The 590 Halifax to Rochdale was also frequent and so reliable end to end that I could get 3 buses from Leeds to Manchester City Centre and save myself a few quid on the train fare but now I avoid crossing the West Yorkshire/ Greater Manchester boundary on the bus. TFGM has not been very interested about strengthening cross boundary links with neighbors and only reluctantly inherited some legacy routes that happen to cross the boundary.
As an aside, I recently had the opportunity of going through a Bee Network training school and nerves got the best of me during my practical test due to me trying to emulate the practises of service drivers I'd been observing for 21 years. I'm going to have to get the practical test done out of pocket with a private company. The sink or swim nature of pcv training is suited to people of a certain temprament. I missed out on a golden opportunity. I now appreciate even more what drivers had to go through to get where they are which the public don't see!
The current Knutsford to Altrincham bus used to run to Northwich but this was was split into two seperate services perhsps due to it being too long.
The 590 Halifax to Rochdale was also frequent and so reliable end to end that I could get 3 buses from Leeds to Manchester City Centre and save myself a few quid on the train fare but now I avoid crossing the West Yorkshire/ Greater Manchester boundary on the bus. TFGM has not been very interested about strengthening cross boundary links with neighbors and only reluctantly inherited some legacy routes that happen to cross the boundary.
As an aside, I recently had the opportunity of going through a Bee Network training school and nerves got the best of me during my practical test due to me trying to emulate the practises of service drivers I'd been observing for 21 years. I'm going to have to get the practical test done out of pocket with a private company. The sink or swim nature of pcv training is suited to people of a certain temprament. I missed out on a golden opportunity. I now appreciate even more what drivers had to go through to get where they are which the public don't see!
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MCRTransitYT
Member
Random question - does anybody have a sort of list which shows either the PVR of each route or how many buses (ideally DD/SD) each depot needs to properly run all their services. Hope this is allowed and if anyone does have this then it will be greatly appreciated
Whisky Papa
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That's very evocative, thanks. I do feel sorry for the driver stuck with a Metrobus up there, though!
mattyharding
On Moderation
I would love to see an improved frequency to buses in Tameside as some are very infrequent and poorly served like the 389 which is only hourly
Class 466
Established Member
There are/were plans to reintroduce the 388 which follows the 389 before heading on to Hyde
mayneway
Member
As @Class 466 has mentioned there is a new 388 service launching in September that will give ridge hill and certain other parts of the 389 route a second service.
Tameside council is also pushing for the 41a and 217 to be reintroduced which will give more links to certain areas of Tameside currently with little or no service.
It’s again back! Anyone know what the issue is with the Fiat which is off the road?
The reliability of these Mellor bodied Fiat’s aren’t fantastic, didn’t Go Goodwins (I’m a Little Gem) have considerable issues with their Fiat’s minibuses also? It does seem poor for the users of this route that they have been subjected to considerable issues due to the uniqueness of the minibus needed to be provided.
mayneway
Member
Mellor are a headache full stop. Although the vehicles are purchased through them they refuse to have anything to do with the mechanical side of the vehicle and refer the operator back to the actual vehicle manufacturer.It’s again back! Anyone know what the issue is with the Fiat which is off the road?
The reliability of these Mellor bodied Fiat’s aren’t fantastic, didn’t Go Goodwins (I’m a Little Gem) have considerable issues with their Fiat’s minibuses also? It does seem poor for the users of this route that they have been subjected to considerable issues due to the uniqueness of the minibus needed to be provided.
The Fiat was seen weeks ago on the back of an MBS flat bed heading towards oldham/Rochdale so could be anything.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
With regards to the referred-to mechanical side of the vehicle, should the matter have been clarified prior to the purchase?
Not to sure if anything is due to replace them but I've heard over the weekend that from later this year 52s are due to be revised so that they only operate to/from Eccles with Trafford Centre extension withdrawn, maybe another route that's possibly going to be converted to double deck operation similar to Oldham Depot's 415 route which is being revised/rerouted possibly later this year.
Dwarfer1979
Member
The Fiats are less robust & lighter weight even than Merc Sprinters and aren't really designed for more intensive regular bus work. They are fine for DRT & Community Transport work and may just about be able to cope with low intensity rural work (stuff where the bus spends time parked up between trips for breaks) but average intensity urban work will be stretching the mechanicals to the point where reliability will suffer. We had some for a DRT contract a while ago and they were OK on that but were disposed of fairly quickly afterwards as we struggled to find other work they could cope with.
mattb7tl
Member
As they say FIAT stands for Fix It Again Tomorrow.
darylyates17
Member
Unless the bridge can be raised it looks like the 280 is stuck with them unless a pair of Sprinter City’s can be ordered.
Stan Drews
Established Member
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The builder of the body isn’t responsible for the warranty relating to the performance of the mechanical parts. That’s fairly standard across buses and coaches, big and small, and always has been.
If your Leyland engine failed on your Y type Leopard you didn’t ring up Alexanders!
mayneway
Member
Disagree slightly. If you buy a chassis off one company then go to a coach builder then fair enough, but TFGM went to Mellor and ordered several vehicles. They paid Mellor for them.
If components fail it should be down to Mellor to resolve and if that means then chasing Fiat or Mercedes then so be it.
When the brand new MMC’s had issues, ADL come out and resolve OR arrange for issues to be resolved.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Totally agree with your logic.
Stan Drews
Established Member
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Isn’t that the opposite of what your initial statement said?
Whilst Mellor may be involved chasing the manufacturer of the component as it would make good business sense for them, you wouldn’t expect a plumber to come and fix your electrics, any more than you’d want a coachbuilder to come and fix your engine. The warranty on defective components will still sit with the manufacturer, and that’s definitely who I’d want to come and fix it.
mattyharding
On Moderation
And this is why ADL is superior to any other bus manufacture
mayneway
Member
Nope I said Mellor were a headache to deal with when there were issues with the vehicles.
Company I previously worked for had a Mellor go down. Gearbox disintegrated. Vehicle still under warranty through Mellor! Mellor didn’t want to know and refereed operator to Mercedes. Mercedes said there was an issue with the door opening knocking the gearbox into neutral which was an Mellor issue not a Mercedes issue. Mellor dragged their feet for weeks before finally resolving the issue.
Fault with an ADL vehicle or a Volvo vehicle - technician deployed and fault sorted in hours not days normally!
esmith2k5
Member
Anyone know why majority of V1/2 services ran with electric deckers this afternoon/evening have been using the diversion route not the guideway? Same vehicles have done earlier services on the same route using the guideway, something to do with weight maybe?
Would Mellor have been able to know that though without it going to Mercedes to look at?