Bee Network Service/Route Discussion

[mayneway]

There appears to be some inconsistency regarding the bus stop at the bottom of Market Street (opposite M&S)
The Bee Network app recently had it down as being shut until 2027, however today it appears part of the cordon had been taken away and the stop was back open, that information hadn't made it onto the Bee Network App or the signage either.

The Bee Network app diversions are shocking and it’s something I’ve highlighted before.
They constantly get road names wrong and often diversions are not mentioned at all.
Currently Armitiers square (probably spelt wrong) in Stalybridge is closed to traffic so the majority of services are on diversion and are using the old bus station instead, yet no mention of this at all on the app.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Bee Network app diversions are shocking and it’s something I’ve highlighted before.
They constantly get road names wrong and often diversions are not mentioned at all.
Currently Armitiers square (probably spelt wrong) in Stalybridge is closed to traffic so the majority of services are on diversion and are using the old bus station instead, yet no mention of this at all on the app.

It's Armentieres (I had to look it up) but it did get me wondering as to why some routes bypass the bus station anyway? Noticed it when up there last.

 

[Pinus contorta]

The Bee Network app diversions are shocking and it’s something I’ve highlighted before.
They constantly get road names wrong and often diversions are not mentioned at all.
Currently Armitiers square (probably spelt wrong) in Stalybridge is closed to traffic so the majority of services are on diversion and are using the old bus station instead, yet no mention of this at all on the app.

It took them months to update after a bus stop was closed near to station at Bryn. Presumably during construction work for a disabled access solution that's not really shown any signs of activity for soem time now

 

[darylyates17]

One thing that’s got wondering with the 360 not included in Merseyside’s franchising and the evening 22s being a partially funded TfGM tender, are any other non Bee Network routes funded or partially funded by TfGM or is the 22 a unique one off?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's Armentieres (I had to look it up) but it did get me wondering as to why some routes bypass the bus station anyway? Noticed it when up there last.

Is that the same place where the Mademoiselle lived in?

 

[mangad]

One thing that’s got wondering with the 360 not included in Merseyside’s franchising and the evening 22s being a partially funded TfGM tender, are any other non Bee Network routes funded or partially funded by TfGM or is the 22 a unique one off?

394 (Glossop to Stepping Hill Hospital), run by High Peak, is co funded by Derbyshire County Council and TfGM. It's tendered by Derbyshire with the contract running until next year. What happens then, who knows. Maybe it will become a Bee Network service, or maybe it will be retendered. Can't imagine it would have a lot of bidders although Belle Vue could. And maybe Go North West would be tempted given they have their Denton depot. Current service needs only one vehicle though.

 

[mayneway]

It's Armentieres (I had to look it up) but it did get me wondering as to why some routes bypass the bus station anyway? Noticed it when up there last.

Thank you haha.
Simple answer regarding the bus station is when everything was commercial, stagecoach and First both stopped using the official bus station as they incurred charges off TFGM when the Square was free to use and more people boarded/alighted there anyway.

TFGM then decided that the tendered evening/Sunday services that didn’t serve the bus station commercially would also now miss it out to save confusion, but strangely now everything is franchised some services STILL omit the bus station.

 

[adam rogan]

One thing that’s got wondering with the 360 not included in Merseyside’s franchising and the evening 22s being a partially funded TfGM tender, are any other non Bee Network routes funded or partially funded by TfGM or is the 22 a unique one off?

I think the 22a is the only one in of its type that hasn't been incorporated into the Bee Network but yet still has funding to run on an hourly frequency.

Very strange as though it is a key link, it's not bursting at the seams patronage wise on evenings or Sundays which is why Arriva have scaled back the daytime route. Pre bee network, many core routes such as the 575 Bolton to Wigan were run commercially during the day and in the evenings, were ran by another operator with the timetable showing that they were subsidized journeys. The only comparable routes to the 22a are the ones from Hyde/Ashton to Glossop, or the bus from Stockport to Hayfield which are now under the bee network . The X5 and the early morning/late night shorts on the 199 Skylink disappeared with the start of franchising but the 22a persists.

I think the 360/22a will be fully incorporated into the Bee Network. I think the Bee Network will possibly take on the 375/385 as it serves a key corridor to Orell and either run it all the way to Southport or only run it to Skelmersdale which is more plausible. If Bryn don't take these one, Stagecoach North West or Preston Bus could get it on a partial tender as can't imagine holmeswood or vision having the pvr to run that route end to end without it being cut back. Splitting the route at Skelmersdale may help with efficiency but the Southport to Skelmersdale leg would struggle on it's own. Merseytravel should have kept it but hey ho.

 

[JasonL]

I think the 22a is the only one in of its type that hasn't been incorporated into the Bee Network but yet still has funding to run on an hourly frequency.

Very strange as though it is a key link, it's not bursting at the seams patronage wise on evenings or Sundays which is why Arriva have scaled back the daytime route. Pre bee network, many core routes such as the 575 Bolton to Wigan were run commercially during the day and in the evenings, were ran by another operator with the timetable showing that they were subsidized journeys. The only comparable routes to the 22a are the ones from Hyde/Ashton to Glossop, or the bus from Stockport to Hayfield which are now under the bee network . The X5 and the early morning/late night shorts on the 199 Skylink disappeared with the start of franchising but the 22a persists.

I think the 360/22a will be fully incorporated into the Bee Network. I think the Bee Network will possibly take on the 375/385 as it serves a key corridor to Orell and either run it all the way to Southport or only run it to Skelmersdale which is more plausible. If Bryn don't take these one, Stagecoach North West or Preston Bus could get it on a partial tender as can't imagine holmeswood or vision having the pvr to run that route end to end without it being cut back. Splitting the route at Skelmersdale may help with efficiency but the Southport to Skelmersdale leg would struggle on it's own. Merseytravel should have kept it but hey ho.

I think the 22A will remain a Warrington's Own Buses route but there is a possibility that Bee Network COULD take over the 360. As for the 375/385 they will be very unlikely to become Metro routes so in my opinion I think they be run by Preston Bus or Vision, or unless Bee Network takes over the 375/385 up to Skelmersdale which I can't see happening. But for Southport I'm not too sure on, there HAS to be at least 1 or 2 services going from Southport to Ormskirk/Skelmersdale.

 

[Simon75]

With TFGM redevelopment bus stations stations over the last few years,I wonder if they will improve Picadilly Gardens?

 

[M60lad]

Regarding 22A/360, I don't think the evening/late journeys have ever been that busy, I remember many years ago when Bolton Depot used to run 360s and they only ran as far Newton-le-Willows they weren't exactly busy then.

 

[neilcobbe]

I've used the 360 a few times recently during the day and it was busy throughout, could possibly justify a 30 minute service. Regarding the evening/Sunday 22A, loadings aren't helped by it being timed into Wigan to run virtually the same time as the 609 at Platt Bridge.

 

[Mollman]

One thing that’s got wondering with the 360 not included in Merseyside’s franchising and the evening 22s being a partially funded TfGM tender, are any other non Bee Network routes funded or partially funded by TfGM or is the 22 a unique one off?

The 110 from Preston to Wigan is a Lancashire tender but with some contribution from TfGM for taking to scenic route between Standish and Wigan

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Was the currently numbered 632 (formerly known as the the 362) that runs from Wigan to Chorley, via Coppull, a precedent for the possibility of the 360 being transferred into the Bee Network and if so, would that service be similarly renumbered?

 

[Statto]

Was the currently numbered 632 (formerly known as the the 362) that runs from Wigan to Chorley, via Coppull, a precedent for the possibility of the 360 being transferred into the Bee Network and if so, would that service be similarly renumbered?

The 632 when it was the 362, was already operated by a depot already in the GM area (Arriva's Bolton depot, the 362 interworked with the 575 Bolton - Wigan), so 362 was included in the Bee Network when Bolton depot became part of the Bee Network, it was just the 362 now 632 subsequently transferred from Bolton to Wigan depot.

Unlike the old 362, the 360 is operated by a depot outside the GM area.

 

[mayneway]

Tameside council and their councillor for transport and mender of GMCA are pushing TFGM for some bus changes in Tameside.
They want the reintroduction of the 217 and 41a services.
The 389 service extending to Hyde bus station again.
At least two 201 services an hour extending to Hollingworth.

Be interesting to see if anything comes of this, the 217 was only ever cancelled short term during Covid with a promise it would be reinstated once the Bee Network launched.
As for the 201, not sure where it would turn round in Hollingworth, and the mottram Moore roadworks would make it extremely unreliable.

 

[mangad]

Tameside council and their councillor for transport and mender of GMCA are pushing TFGM for some bus changes in Tameside.
They want the reintroduction of the 217 and 41a services.
The 389 service extending to Hyde bus station again.
At least two 201 services an hour extending to Hollingworth.

Be interesting to see if anything comes of this, the 217 was only ever cancelled short term during Covid with a promise it would be reinstated once the Bee Network launched.
As for the 201, not sure where it would turn round in Hollingworth, and the mottram Moore roadworks would make it extremely unreliable.

The 389 stopping in Dukinfield just feels weird. And leaves a chunk of Newton and Flowery Field with not great connections to Hyde. And yeah, how on earth do you turn the 201 at Hollingworth? Has there ever been a bus route terminate there? Historically the ones I remember went on to Glossop.

 

[Open top 80]

The 389 stopping in Dukinfield just feels weird. And leaves a chunk of Newton and Flowery Field with not great connections to Hyde. And yeah, how on earth do you turn the 201 at Hollingworth? Has there ever been a bus route terminate there? Historically the ones I remember went on to Glossop.

I remember in my school days (80s) the 388/389 ran straight through to Marple from Ashton under lyne at 30 min intervals during the day .

 

[Statto]

Tameside council and their councillor for transport and mender of GMCA are pushing TFGM for some bus changes in Tameside.
They want the reintroduction of the 217 and 41a services.
The 389 service extending to Hyde bus station again.
At least two 201 services an hour extending to Hollingworth.

Be interesting to see if anything comes of this, the 217 was only ever cancelled short term during Covid with a promise it would be reinstated once the Bee Network launched.
As for the 201, not sure where it would turn round in Hollingworth, and the mottram Moore roadworks would make it extremely unreliable.

Could extending the 201 to Glossop rather than Hollingworth instead work, could go the direct route via Woolley Lane & Dinting Vale (similar to the old 236) rather than through Hadfield?

 

[mangad]

Be interesting to see if anything comes of this, the 217 was only ever cancelled short term during Covid with a promise it would be reinstated once the Bee Network launched.

Looking up the 217 (as I didn't remember it), daytime was withdrawn "temporarily" in April 2023. It was previously run by Little Gem, and got caught up in the problems TfGM had finding replacement operators when Little Gem pulled the plug on itself.

 

[mayneway]

Looking up the 217 (as I didn't remember it), daytime was withdrawn "temporarily" in April 2023. It was previously run by Little Gem, and got caught up in the problems TfGM had finding replacement operators when Little Gem pulled the plug on itself.

That’s correct. TFGM put it out to tender but claimed the prices they received were much higher than what they had been paying Little Gem ( obviously because the owner put very low bids in to win the work), so they refused to award it. The evening service continued for a while and then was also withdrawn.

I drove the 217 regularly at MCT and it was a busy well used service so can understand the desire to reinstate it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2026 ==

The 389 stopping in Dukinfield just feels weird. And leaves a chunk of Newton and Flowery Field with not great connections to Hyde. And yeah, how on earth do you turn the 201 at Hollingworth? Has there ever been a bus route terminate there? Historically the ones I remember went on to Glossop.

I drove the 389 years ago when it ran to Gee Cross and it was well used in the evenings so I’d certainly say a service to Hyde would work.
Likewise the 41A was also very busy.

With regards to the 201, there is a turning circle at longendale school but as for it extending to Glossop, I can’t see it as DCC won’t want to contribute.

 

[mangad]

I drove the 389 years ago when it ran to Gee Cross and it was well used in the evenings so I’d certainly say a service to Hyde would work.
Likewise the 41A was also very busy.

With regards to the 201, there is a turning circle at longendale school but as for it extending to Glossop, I can’t see it as DCC won’t want to contribute.

I can't imagine the local residents would be that happy with more buses going up there and turning round, but yeah, there's no real chance of the buses going to Glossop like they used to. Not unless they changed some of the 237s.

Was idly looking at timetables in the area and spotted that, somehow, the last 219 night bus still goes all the way to Glossop. Just one journey leaving Manchester at 2:42am, twice a week. If I remember correctly Tame Valley ran a night bus to Glossop in the 1990s as well at a similar time. I assume it's well used for it to remain. Glossop residents must all be party animals!

Edit: looking at the timetable archive, the Tame Valley service may have been the last 216 night bus that they extended from Ashton to Hyde - presumably rather than running it empty to their depot.

 

[mayneway]

I can't imagine the local residents would be that happy with more buses going up there and turning round, but yeah, there's no real chance of the buses going to Glossop like they used to. Not unless they changed some of the 237s.

Was idly looking at timetables in the area and spotted that, somehow, the last 219 night bus still goes all the way to Glossop. Just one journey leaving Manchester at 2:42am, twice a week. If I remember correctly Tame Valley ran a night bus to Glossop in the 1990s as well at a similar time. I assume it's well used for it to remain. Glossop residents must all be party animals!

Edit: looking at the timetable archive, the Tame Valley service may have been the last 216 night bus that they extended from Ashton to Hyde - presumably rather than running it empty to their depot.

There was a couple of 219’s that ran to Stalybridge and a 237N that ran from Piccadilly to Glossop on a Friday and Saturday night following the 216 route to Ashton, then after Covid stagecoach decided to drop the 237N and run it as a 219 instead. Apparently it’s pretty busy!

 

[mangad]

There was a couple of 219’s that ran to Stalybridge and a 237N that ran from Piccadilly to Glossop on a Friday and Saturday night following the 216 route to Ashton, then after Covid stagecoach decided to drop the 237N and run it as a 219 instead. Apparently it’s pretty busy!

I am well past the age for staying out that late (if I ever was) but i can see it. What gets me is not that it's busy but that it's the only journey! I wonder if anyone has considered putting in a servive to Glossop at 1am as well. Still, must be lovely for the driver to drop the stragglers off and run non stop back to the depot at nearly 4am!

(I suspect the answer is, no, they haven't seriously considered it, because then they'd need another vehicle out there, whereas running only the last bus to Glossop won't impact costs that much. And if the current service pays for itself - as it surely must do, why worry too much?)

 

[mayneway]

I am well past the age for staying out that late (if I ever was) but i can see it. What gets me is not that it's busy but that it's the only journey! I wonder if anyone has considered putting in a servive to Glossop at 1am as well. Still, must be lovely for the driver to drop the stragglers off and run non stop back to the depot at nearly 4am!

(I suspect the answer is, no, they haven't seriously considered it, because then they'd need another vehicle out there, whereas running only the last bus to Glossop won't impact costs that much. And if the current service pays for itself - as it surely must do, why worry too much?)

I can see it happening in the future, although it’s interesting that after the Bolton depot night services were introduced, the 135 and 17 night service was rolled out but only a couple of nights a week suggesting patronage isn’t as high as expected.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Many years ago, there was a single timetable for the 302.303,304 with very local services around the Marple area. Has anyone any knowledge of what full routes were served by those services and the days of operation.

 

[Statto]

Many years ago, there was a single timetable for the 302.303,304 with very local services around the Marple area. Has anyone any knowledge of what full routes were served by those services and the days of operation.

This might be worth a look

https://www.railwaymedia.co.uk/Timetables/GM300/n-2NS7n4

 

[M60lad]

Ahh 302/303/304, if I remember rightly these routes were introduced and provided with money from Kickstart initiative (I could be wrong) there were other routes in other areas as well, these were introduced at the time to try and provide buses in areas that didn't have a bus service at the time and also provided some scenic route opportunities.

Also from what I remember they only ran on certain days during the week, one service would run on one day according to the timetable while other services would run on other days.

Some of the roads used were interesting in that they were narrow roads that buses wouldn't normally use and would be interesting at some parts if you met something coming the other way.

 

[mangad]

This might be worth a look

https://www.railwaymedia.co.uk/Timetables/GM300/n-2NS7n4

The Timetable Archive does indeed have a quite comprehensive set of timetables which have route maps on them. The original services were the 303, 304, 305 and 306, introduced in 2001. The 306 went in 2011 (which is a shame as the route to Rowarth went past two great pubs, neither of which have a bus service now) with the rest going in 2017. Even with the limited service they had in the first place, the final timetable does look even more cut back.

 

[florence]

Could extending the 201 to Glossop rather than Hollingworth instead work, could go the direct route via Woolley Lane & Dinting Vale (similar to the old 236) rather than through Hadfield?

There could be an argument in favour of this as Woolley Bridge (which is in Tameside rather than Derbyshire) currently lacks any bus service.