Bee Network Service/Route Discussion

[Leedsbusman]

They might be cancelled as they no longer need to be registered with the Traffic Commissioner. As they operate entirely within Greater Manchester, Transport for Greater Manchester is the registering authority.

No it isn’t. The TC is the registration authority for the ‘tranche 3’ area. When franchising is complete there will be no more registrations.

 

[GusB]

Bus and Coach Buyer is reporting that network reviews will be taking place.

Bee Network bus reviews to get underway - Bus & Coach Buyer

A rolling programme of Bee Network reviews are to explore how public transport can best be improved across every part of Greater Manchester. Starting in Bolton and Wigan, the first boroughs to get the franchised Bee Network bus services, Network Reviews will see Transport for Greater Manchester...

www.busandcoachbuyer.com

A rolling programme of Bee Network reviews are to explore how public transport can best be improved across every part of Greater Manchester.

Starting in Bolton and Wigan, the first boroughs to get the franchised Bee Network bus services, Network Reviews will see Transport for Greater Manchester (TfGM) working with local authority partners to gather the thoughts of local communities, elected members and businesses.

Elected representatives sitting on local transport committees and forums will influence any changes made, with priority given to ideas that deliver the biggest benefits for the most people in Greater Manchester, taking funding and resources into account.

All areas of Greater Manchester will be reviewed within three years, with the order mirroring the roll-out of bus franchising. A programme of thematic reviews – for example, opportunities for night buses, orbital services, or priority routes – also gets under way from January 2025, when all of Greater Manchester’s buses are due to be under local control.

Changes that ‘grow’ the existing Bee Network – such as additional frequencies, trips, capacity or minor route changes – fall under a fast-track process, meaning they can be put in place within around six months. The 24-hour transport pilot getting under way from September with new night bus services in parts of Greater Manchester is a key example.

Strategic Network Reviews will deal with more substantial, in-depth changes with a view to improving the Bee Network over the longer term. Under current legislation, these will likely take between 12 and 18 months and could require consultation.

The link to the the relevant page on the TfGM site is here:

https://tfgm.com/network-reviews

We’re carrying out a series of Network Reviews as part of our commitment to improving your Bee Network.

Network Reviews will help us make it easier for people to get where they need to go – through simple, joined up, reliable services.

Every Network Review will be evidence-based, using all the information available to us, including community feedback.

They will help us better understand bus services across the city-region so that we can better plan our bus network.

 

[geoffk]

What's the problem with the 42, 42A, 42B and 42C (plus 142) - it's very helpful for people heading to Didsbury Village and Parrs Wood to be able to just look for 42, and then it not mattering what's on the front or end

142 and 143 are really just short workings so those numbers won't be needed.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

What will happen to these school routes, will Vision Bus eventually have all the school routes in Greater Manchester or will the likes of First, Metroline, Stagecoach etc. have some school routes but keep them in the normal livery?

Stagecoach and Diamond have a number of school routes in Wigan/Leigh/Bolton that they'll probably keep for the foreseeable future.

 

[Tim33160]

Stagecoach and Diamond have a number of school routes in Wigan/Leigh/Bolton that they'll probably keep for the foreseeable future.

The separate schools contracts let to Stagecoach and Go North West in Tranche One are for 3 years.
The main Bee Network contracts are let for 5 years

Some of the "large" contracts contain some school bus routes, run from large depots - which will need to be yellow Bee Network buses
The smaller school contracts have operators that don't need to be in Bee Network yellow and were designed to enable small operators to bid for schools contracts - the likes of Stotts and Belle Vue, Atlantic Travel, Tyrer's etc. But these contracts to date have gone to the main operators other than Vision Bus. Hence GNW having a school depot at Heywood, and Stagecoach planning a Schools Unit at Little Hulton (which hasn't yet happened with school buses running from Sharston and Hyde Rd to run into Bolton and Wigan)
It remains to be seen who gets the Tranche 3 school contracts from January 2025. In the main, they have been let as short contracts for the Autumn term to the same operator that had them before the summer break. We await news of who gets them from January 2025

 

[stait.john]

Go North West to open a depot in Denton ready for January 2025.

As seen on their recruitment page.

 

[Class 466]

Go North West to open a depot in Denton ready for January 2025.

As seen on their recruitment page.

Gonna be a small depot for 2 routes unless they've bagged more school routes

 

[Leyland Bus]

Gonna be a small depot for 2 routes unless they've bagged more school routes

Tameside A consists of 7 routes at the last count.

 

[darylyates17]

Tameside A consists of 7 routes at the last count.

Will more vehicles need to be sourced to cover these routes?

 

[Class 466]

Tameside A consists of 7 routes at the last count.

The Excel sheet attatched to an FOI suggests GNW won Tameside B Small which was only 2 routes (343, 356)

T3 Contract Awards - a Freedom of Information request to Transport for Greater Manchester

Can I please request the details of which depot and which company will be operating each service announced in the recent award of Tranche 3 of Bee Network. Yours faithfully, Michael McNiven

www.whatdotheyknow.com

 

[mangad]

The Excel sheet attatched to an FOI suggests GNW won Tameside B Small which was only 2 routes (343, 356)

T3 Contract Awards - a Freedom of Information request to Transport for Greater Manchester

Can I please request the details of which depot and which company will be operating each service announced in the recent award of Tranche 3 of Bee Network. Yours faithfully, Michael McNiven

www.whatdotheyknow.com

Both those two routes take nearly 90 minutes to get from one terminus to the other, and run hourly at current service levels. Also having a depot in Denton means having a depot right next to the M60 motorway, which may come in very useful.

Amusingly, the document on the FOI request says Go-Ahead got Tameside B, whilst TfGM's press release says Tameside A.

Operators confirmed to run remaining Bee Network bus services

news.tfgm.com

 

[Leyland Bus]

I went off TfGMs page for who had won what. You'd think out of anyone, they'd know?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Stagecoach planning a Schools Unit at Little Hulton (which hasn't yet happened with school buses running from Sharston and Hyde Rd to run into Bolton and Wigan)

Has it not? I was looking on bustimes.org the other day and noticed a stagecoach school bus in an industrial estate.
This looks to be the spot

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[mbonwick]

I think it's best described as having a soft opening...there was a few photos shared with staff a couple of weeks ago of buses present, but also a lot of building equipment still around in the background.
I'd imagine for now it's being used as parking for the usual summer reductions, and will formally gain an operational allocation in September.

 

[mayneway]

Gonna be a small depot for 2 routes unless they've bagged more school routes

11 routes running out of there, housing 15 buses, with the possibility of some of the schools moving there once it’s established.

It’s on the industrial estate just off Denton Rock/M60/66 roundabout.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2024 ==

A mellor strata on free bus and at least two single deckers out on double decker routes yesterday - yet there’s no shortage of serviceable vehicles at Queens Road… think those Scanias need to go pronto!

The Mellor was replaced at Lunchtime with a full size decker, the two singles were on depot run backs so were swapped with deckers as they came off inspection.

 

[GusB]

Please remember that if you are referring to an information on other websites, you must include a link to the source and copy and paste the text into a quote box. This includes social media such as ex-Twitter and Facebook.

Screenshots are not appropriate because they are potentially inaccessible to people with visual impairments who rely on screen-readers to access the forum.

 

[Tim33160]

Re GNW at Denton will be operating the Tameside A small franchise:
335 Ashton - Denton - Dane Bank previously run by Stotts/Stagecoach
339 Ashton-under-Lyne - Waterloo circular previously run by Stotts/Stagecoach
341 Broadbottom - Hattersley – Hyde previously run by Stotts
342/344 Hyde - Gee Cross Circulars previously run by Stotts/Stagecoach
345 Ashton - Denton Circular previously run by Stotts/Stagecoach
387 Hyde - Stalybridge - Ashton General previously run by Stotts/Stagecoach
396 Middleton - Chadderton – Ashton previously run by Stotts/Stagecoach

 

[mangad]

Re GNW at Denton will be operating the Tameside A small franchise:
335 Ashton - Denton - Dane Bank previously run by Stotts/Stagecoach
339 Ashton-under-Lyne - Waterloo circular previously run by Stotts/Stagecoach
341 Broadbottom - Hattersley – Hyde previously run by Stotts
342/344 Hyde - Gee Cross Circulars previously run by Stotts/Stagecoach
345 Ashton - Denton Circular previously run by Stotts/Stagecoach
387 Hyde - Stalybridge - Ashton General previously run by Stotts/Stagecoach
396 Middleton - Chadderton – Ashton previously run by Stotts/Stagecoach

I am not saying you are wrong, but please provide your source.

Why am I asking for your source? Because we have a TfGM issued press release saying Tameside Small A, and a TfGM issued Freedom of Information Request saying Tameside Small B. And clearly one of those is wrong, but we do not know which. And given both of those are sourced from TfGM - the organisation that made the franchise award, and which should be the cannonical source - I won't believe anything now without concrete evidence!

 

[Volvodart]

I am not saying you are wrong, but please provide your source.

Why am I asking for your source? Because we have a TfGM issued press release saying Tameside Small A, and a TfGM issued Freedom of Information Request saying Tameside Small B. And clearly one of those is wrong, but we do not know which. And given both of those are sourced from TfGM - the organisation that made the franchise award, and which should be the cannonical source - I won't believe anything now without concrete evidence!

Rotala officially announced they had won the Tameside B when they won the award.

 

[mangad]

Rotala officially announced they had won the Tameside B when they won the award.

Thank you. That would be this then:

Rotala subsidiary, Diamond Bus North West, has been awarded three 5-year contracts by Greater Manchester Combined Authority to operate the Tameside B, Stockport and Trafford Small Franchises in the Tranche 3 area.

Rotala PLC - Transport Solutions

www.rotala.uk

 

[mayneway]

I am not saying you are wrong, but please provide your source.

Why am I asking for your source? Because we have a TfGM issued press release saying Tameside Small A, and a TfGM issued Freedom of Information Request saying Tameside Small B. And clearly one of those is wrong, but we do not know which. And given both of those are sourced from TfGM - the organisation that made the franchise award, and which should be the cannonical source - I won't believe anything now without concrete evidence!

TFGM messed up. They released a spread sheet as part of a FOI requested that stated diamond had won the bigger small contract with GNW winning the smaller one. Yet the info on TFGM’s own website was the opposite. Both companies confirmed this when they both announced what they had won.

The spreadsheet was dogged with errors and clearly wasn’t proof read before releasing.

 

[baza585]

TFGM messed up. They released a spread sheet as part of a FOI requested that stated diamond had won the bigger small contract with GNW winning the smaller one. Yet the info on TFGM’s own website was the opposite. Both companies confirmed this when they both announced what they had won.

The spreadsheet was dogged with errors and clearly wasn’t proof read before releasing.

As far as I know,TfGM haven't apologized for their error.

Let's hope they pay the right companies for running the routes. Diamond may be hoping otherwise.....

 

[Leedsbusman]

I am not saying you are wrong, but please provide your source.

Why am I asking for your source? Because we have a TfGM issued press release saying Tameside Small A, and a TfGM issued Freedom of Information Request saying Tameside Small B. And clearly one of those is wrong, but we do not know which. And given both of those are sourced from TfGM - the organisation that made the franchise award, and which should be the cannonical source - I won't believe anything now without concrete evidence!

Greater Manchester Bus Franchising Tranche 3 - Find a Tender

www.find-tender.service.gov.uk

Section V. Award of contract​

Contract No​

DN642345

Lot No​

7

Title​

Tameside A Small Franchise

A contract/lot is awarded: Yes

five.2) Award of contractV.2) Award of contract​

five.2.1) Date of conclusion of the contractV.2.1) Date of conclusion of the contract​

28 March 2024

five.2.2) Information about tendersV.2.2) Information about tenders​

Number of tenders received: 3

The contract has been awarded to a group of economic operators: No

five.2.3) Name and address of the contractorV.2.3) Name and address of the contractor​

Go North West

Boyle Street

Manchester

M8 8UT

 

[Bungle965]

Has anyone else noticed that there is a lot of wasted paper from the Ticketer machines, not sure whether this is just limited to Stagecoach or is standard Ticketer feature.
The old machines seemed to utilise the space better.

 

[py_megapixel]

One thing I find a little odd is how services 36 and 37 are always scheduled to depart at the same time from the Manchester end. Given they share a large section of the route, and the same stop in Piccadilly Garden, wouldn't it make more sense to stagger them to increase the effective frequency on the shared section?

 

[Leyland Bus]

One thing I find a little odd is how services 36 and 37 are always scheduled to depart at the same time from the Manchester end. Given they share a large section of the route, and the same stop in Piccadilly Garden, wouldn't it make more sense to stagger them to increase the effective frequency on the shared section?

Why don't you write to TfGM and suggest it?

 

[py_megapixel]

Why don't you write to TfGM and suggest it?

Because it's clearly not a coincidence, which means someone has presumably made a deliberate decision to time them like that. I'm not suggesting they need to change it, I was just wondering if anyone more familiar with that corridor than myself could see why that decision might have been taken.

 

[Leedsbusman]

Because it's clearly not a coincidence, which means someone has presumably made a deliberate decision to time them like that. I'm not suggesting they need to change it, I was just wondering if anyone more familiar with that corridor than myself could see why that decision might have been taken.

Looking at the weekday timetable they look to be 7/8 apart now and 6 apart in the September timetable.

 

[py_megapixel]

Looking at the weekday timetable they look to be 7/8 apart now and 6 apart in the September timetable.

Have just had a look again and you're right. Could have sworn last time I checked they were at the same time, but apparently I was wrong. My mistake!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Have just had a look again and you're right. Could have sworn last time I checked they were at the same time, but apparently I was wrong. My mistake!

Could you be thinking of at the Bolton end where they do leave pretty much at the same time (+- a couple minutes).