Becoming a train driver

[387star]

Thatt's strange given that on paper they tell you when to switch as that is an important aspect of the test that the sheets change frequently

 

[Beveridges]

Theres inconsistancies in the tests that its not standard process.
For example Dots on Computer or on Paper?
Mechanical test included sometimes and other times not??
The use of two different Mech Comp papers that you might get at random, i.e. MT4.1 (the harder version) and MT4.2.
Structured Interview sometimes on the same day, sometimes not???????

 

[TDK]

There are many inconsistancies in the psycho tests that it hardly seems to be the standard process that it claims it is.
For example Dots on Computer or on Paper? Mechanical test included sometimes and other times not?? The use of two different Mech Comp papers that you might get at random, i.e. MT4.1 (the harder version) and MT4.2.
Another one is that the assessor can fail in the Structured Interview for your behaviour throughout the "ability tests" if you do things like cheating, show signs of nervousness, fail to put your pencil down quick enough at the end of the test, turning over the page too quickly at the start of the test, etc, but this can only happen if its on the same day, if your lucky and it's not on the same day & with a different assessor it can't go against you and you can potentially get away with it!

You must be doing something wrong if you have passed the tests and medicals and not yet secured a mainline drivers' job - maybe your references are not too good or you fluffed up at interview, something must be wrong here mate and until you discover what it is keep banging your head against the wall.

 

[Beveridges]

I thought its normal for TOC's to treat applicants like absolute garbage or I was just unlucky ?
For example I've done the mechanical comprehension test 4 times now over the years.
Interviews can be unpredictable (too many silly questions that are nothing to do with your suitability) but I still scrape through sometimes. How else would I have had 2 Driver medicals.
References can't be bad but I don't think Arriva Trains Wales even bothered asking for them as they advertised for a job that didn't even exist and only admitted 18 months after passed the final stage the medical.
Costs them nothing to mess with peoples lives.
I am not bothered myself, it can take as long as it takes.

 

[Latecomer]

I tend to agree with TDK. There must be an issue somewhere. Do you get nervous at interviews for example? If someone comes across as quite unsettled this in itself could lead to failure as they are looking for someone who is composed under pressure. I can't say what it is but there must be something to work on a bit. How about getting a mainline driver to ask you some questions in a mock interview situation and see what they feedback?

 

[TDK]

I thought its normal for TOC's to treat applicants like absolute garbage or I was just unlucky ?
For example I've done the mechanical comprehension test 4 times now over the years.
Interviews can be unpredictable (too many silly questions that are nothing to do with your suitability) but I still scrape through sometimes. How else would I have had 2 Driver medicals.
References can't be bad but I don't think Arriva Trains Wales even bothered asking for them as they advertised for a job that didn't even exist and only admitted 18 months after passed the final stage the medical.
Costs them nothing to mess with peoples lives.
I am not bothered myself, it can take as long as it takes.

What depot was you trying for with ATW as I am sure the position existed. I don't want to personally critisise you however I have taken many interviews and hosted a few recruitment days and to be honest the company would not have a recruitment day if there were not any vacancies. You seem to be one of those candidates who seem to think they know it all and I have interviewed many of these candidates before, now don't take this the wrong way but I think it may be your attitude to the role that has caused you to be refused and not your ability.

I can assure you that ATW do check references and they do refuse candidates who have conflicting information in ther references from what they have offered in interview, I can also assure you that TOC's do not mess with peoples lives, they will take whoever is the right person for the job, as you well know each position is highly contested and all it takes is one thing to put the interviewer off and you won't get a job.

Here is a scenario for you. 10 candidtaes arrive at the locations for the assessments and one of them is spouting on how easy the tests are and how you can blag the interviwer into a false reality and how they know all the questions to the interviews, the interviewer is sitting in the reception room listening to this fool spouting on how easy the role is, and even asks the interviewer what his job was and that it looks like he hasn't got a chance by the way he is sitting, you should have seen the face on this guy when he came to sit in front of the interviewer.

First question: Candidate says, that isn't on your list of questions, what a plank. I am not saying this is you or you are anything like this guy but there must be a reason and I think it is attitude as you quote:

too many silly questions that are nothing to do with your suitability

How do you know this?

References can't be bad but I don't think Arriva Trains Wales even bothered asking for them as they advertised for a job that didn't even exist and only admitted 18 months after passed the final stage the medical.


Your evidence?

I am not bothered myself, it can take as long as it takes

Attitude?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I tend to agree with TDK. There must be an issue somewhere. Do you get nervous at interviews for example? If someone comes across as quite unsettled this in itself could lead to failure as they are looking for someone who is composed under pressure. I can't say what it is but there must be something to work on a bit. How about getting a mainline driver to ask you some questions in a mock interview situation and see what they feedback?

A mainline driver would not know how to ask the questions you need someone who is an experienced interviewer to ask the questions. Nerves at an interview will not necessarily cause you to be rejected, it is how those nerves are dealt with at the time, everyone will be nervous at interview, I had one person once almost in tears and so nervous he couldn't answer the questions, I gave him a break and said get a cup of tea or coffee and come back in later, he did well the second time and passed the interview however he failed the medical unfortunately

 

[Latecomer]

A mainline driver would not know how to ask the questions you need someone who is an experienced interviewer to ask the questions. Nerves at an interview will not necessarily cause you to be rejected, it is how those nerves are dealt with at the time, everyone will be nervous at interview, I had one person once almost in tears and so nervous he couldn't answer the questions, I gave him a break and said get a cup of tea or coffee and come back in later, he did well the second time and passed the interview however he failed the medical unfortunately

What I'm trying to get at is that Beveridges appears to be struggling a bit with what's going wrong and someone who's been through the process may have a better idea of what it was that got them through it. I have not so long passed a manager interview myself and have also been the interviewer on many panels in another profession so I'm not sure it's true that people couldn't offer advice?

 

[Beveridges]

I do not get nervous in an Interview, I have done too many now that its like a regular event.
Admittedly Interview answers are far from perfect. I have been through the process a few times and in the case with ATW the only part of the process I missed out on was recieving and signing a contract!!!

too many silly questions that are nothing to do with your suitability

How do you know this?

In a recent Interview I was asked a couple of questions about "making a difficult decision".
Can you name how many times you have to make difficult decision making unless you work in Control or Management?

Even worse I got asked RULES questions in one of my interviews for Lime St, i.e. Name the one occasion when you would let a Conductor travel in the driving cab.
Now if this is giving Conductors an advantage over Shunters (who never even work with Conductors) I don't know what is.
That question is not in my rules but it is in many of my competitors.
Now if they had asked "Talk me through a full Class 158 prep" I'm sure all those Guards would have been complaining but I would have answered it without even thinking.

What depot was you trying for with ATW as I am sure the position existed

I was applying for Pwllheli and got told I passed everything and they'd get back to me with a start date. Months later they sent me a letter saying the job is subject to government funding. Just over 1 year later they replied saying they have no plans for recruiting trainee mainline drivers and you will have to apply again next time one comes up. Everyone who I've spoke to about this experience with ATW agrees its absolutely disgusting at best.

I only cancelled plans for 3 holidays that I'd normally have in that period they'd had me on hold, based my future plans around living at Pwllheli, saved up money working (what has turned out) unnecessary overtime, etc. If keeping people "on hold" for more than a year is not messing with peoples lives I don't know what is.

As it turns out I now think it can take as long as it takes so would now wait for a local position in my area (Blackpool) instead of rush around and relocating to Wales. Incidentally a vacancy has appeared a couple of week ago so this could be it at last.

 

[E&W Lucas]

I tend to agree with TDK. There must be an issue somewhere. Do you get nervous at interviews for example? If someone comes across as quite unsettled this in itself could lead to failure as they are looking for someone who is composed under pressure. I can't say what it is but there must be something to work on a bit. How about getting a mainline driver to ask you some questions in a mock interview situation and see what they feedback?

I'm not bashing Beveridges, but I've come to think the same.

You just don't come across like a driver. I'm not too sure that you've understood what the job entails. You've joined in one discussion recently, where previous work in the heritage railway sector was discussed; you started posting about footplate experience courses, which are nothing more than an entertainment exercise. A case of engage brain before opening mouth?

If you're getting hit with technical questions, is that because you're trying to make shunter driver sound like mainline driver? Sorry, but that's not going to wash with most mainline driver managers.

I'd agree with the other drivers that have posted above. You are doing or saying something that is ringing alarm bells. And yes, I too have considerable experience in recruiting staff in my former career.

 

[Beveridges]

Just a few points in response to numerous criticisms:

Arriva Trains Wales - I sucessfully competed against hundreds for just 3 planned jobs only for it to have been withdrawn due to lack of government funding. Nothing to do with attitude or comments on private railways. Most vacancies are planned or predicted due to the 9 month training period & if they get their predictions wrong, you get messed around for nothing.
Government funding is something I have no control over; I did not even vote for this government.
I understand what the job involves (more than a mainline-unqualified applicant would b expected to know) but I'm not thinking like some shunter drivers I work with who say "they do the same job as us but at 70mph instead of 5mph!".
Understand there are a lot of differences, easier in some ways, harder in others.
Technical questions in Interviews? They were read from the sheet for all internals to answer, not aimed specifically at me. I felt the question set was crafted to make it easy for conductors to answer and sod the rest.
I fail to remember stating footplate courses are relevant to main line driving - Ofcause they count for nothing as you are under supervision at all times.
Finally, I do *not* get nervous at mainline Interviews. Whats there to be nervous about? Fail and try again next time? It's not like the CCL tests where its 2 fails then your out!!

Like I said I'm in no rush. I'm only more interested in mainline than shunting as the shifts are better & I'm sick of being forced into working overtime at the sidings & also sick of all the aggro. Other than that I'm not that bothered or excited.

 

[E&W Lucas]

I fail to remember stating footplate courses are relevant to main line driving - Ofcause they count for nothing as you are under supervision at all times.

I think that you've just proved my point! The original discussion was to whether actual work experience could be in any way useful. You then started posting about footplate experience, which is totally irrelevant to the subject being discussed.

Half "listening", and answering before you've fully understood the points being made. Are you doing this in interviews?

 

[Beveridges]

I was just making it clear that when I say preserved experience, I do not mean a footplate course, as someone actually mentioned one a few posts before mine!

 

[notadriver]

I'm not sure that even if you were a driver on a preserved railway that it would make that much difference. Many shunter drivers and tube and tram drivers seem to fail to make the cut.

Do you have the same traction knowledge as a main line driver ?

 

[Beveridges]

Do you have the same traction knowledge as a main line driver ?

Yes as shunters are preparing loads of trains every night for service afterall, not just driving them. Some of the more experienced shunter drivers seem to have even more traction knowedge than a mainline driver, they carry a screw driver & other tools around and fix faults themselves as they have learned from the fitter how to fix most problems on trains. Saves them waiting for the fitter if they find problems on preperation. I think most of them can fix wipers, speedos, sticking DSD's, lower EBS's, resolve most issues where the gearbox fault lights up, etc. unassisted.
Several times a mainline driver has come to take a train off and can't work out why the brakes don't release, shunter driver comes out and sorts it out quickly.
I'd imagine Shunters who work at bigger maintenance depots like Neville Hill etc have yet even more knowledge as they are dealing with knackered stuff and isolations all the time. Also look at how many classes of units and locos they deal with from 08's to 333's!
Shunter drivers don't have anywhere near the route knowledge or rules knowledge of a mainline driver but we do the same amount of traction knowledge or even more in the case of most of the shunters, NOT including myself.

Many shunter drivers and tube and tram drivers seem to fail to make the cut.

Any examples ? Any examples of the above who have been given the chance & actually failed to make the grade ?
Surely you'd expect proven previous rail driving experience is a very good indication that they will be one of the better drivers when they finally get a job on the mainline? Though TOC's might do not think so - they tend to have their favourites ( Conductors, friends and relatives)