Becoming a Timetabler

[Esker-pades]

(Apologies if this is a duplicate, but I can't find a similar thread.)

Esentially, how does one become a timetabler?

What sort of qualifications does one require? And, are those qualifications sufficient, or does one have to work up from a lower job?

Any other bits of information will be very useful too.

 

[EM2]

Certainly on the Network Rail side, you can come in 'off the street', there's no need to have previous railway experience. There's an eighteen-week training programme that teaches you all the necessary skills.
As for qualifications, I'm not exactly sure, but I imagine a few GCSE passes (probably Maths, English and a science) would be needed. For some reason, there don't appear to be any positions advertised on the NR website at the moment, which is odd as I know that there are vacancies.

 

[The Planner]

Teaches you skills in 18 weeks, knowledge takes time. It is also a strange profession, you tend to get it or you don't, there isn't much of an in between.

 

[Esker-pades]

Thanks very much for the responses.

Are there any specific traits which an interviewer looks for? (Equally, ones which get someone an instant "no"?)

 

[Nic nic]

This interests me and roster clerk work also. I work as a logistic co ordinator is this the kind of background companies look for in candidates for these roles? Or do they look for people within their own industry which already understand the workload, limitations of rolling stock, infrastructure and what is achievable along with the pitfalls.... I feel like I just answered my own question

 

[yorkie]

@FelixtheCat I understand you are joining us at the York pub meet next week, so I will introduce you to forum members who have experience in roles such as train planner, roster clerk etc

 

[EM2]

Or do they look for people within their own industry which already understand the workload, limitations of rolling stock, infrastructure and what is achievable along with the pitfalls.... I feel like I just answered my own question

I know one person that used to work in payroll, one that came out of uni with a degree in sports science, one that was an IT technician in a school, one that was a buyer for a department store, and they're all now train planners.

 

[Nic nic]

I know one person that used to work in payroll, one that came out of uni with a degree in sports science, one that was an IT technician in a school, one that was a buyer for a department store, and they're all now train planners.

That is encouraging I have seen these jobs come up but assumed I would not even get a look in. Thanks I may have a punt if something comes up local to myself.

 

[EM2]

That is encouraging I have seen these jobs come up but assumed I would not even get a look in. Thanks I may have a punt if something comes up local to myself.

For Network Rail, planning is all based at Milton Keynes. You need to live within 90 minutes (or maybe it's 75, can't remember!) of MK for those roles.

 

[Esker-pades]

@FelixtheCat I understand you are joining us at the York pub meet next week, so I will introduce you to forum members who have experience in roles such as train planner, roster clerk etc

I absolutely am and that sounds absolutely marvellous. Thanks!

 

[The Planner]

For Network Rail, planning is all based at Milton Keynes. You need to live within 90 minutes (or maybe it's 75, can't remember!) of MK for those roles.

Used to be 60 when it first got centralised.

 

[306024]

Timetabling is the most visible aspect of operational planning, but engineering access planning, train and traincrew diagramming and rostering are all equally interesting. Anyway here are a few qualities considered necessary:

A logical thought process.
Meticulous attention to detail.
Ability to work in both a team environment and individually.
Good inter-personal skills to be able to work effectively with external organisations, trade unions, TOCs FOCs and NR.
These are all far more important than knowing, for example, what a class 66 locomotive is.

Qualifications:
It’s a competitive world and TOC / FOC planning vacancies are more scarce than at NR. A cv wth just a few GCSEs is unlikely to stand out against more qualified opposition such as A levels at least.

A lot of train planning can be taught from scratch but certainly some do seem to have an aptitude. Even if you know all there is to know (unlikely) putting it down on paper (or rather in the computer) is a different skill. Finally you never stop learning, there will always be some challenge you haven’t met before.

 

[Esker-pades]

Timetabling is the most visible aspect of operational planning, but engineering access planning, train and traincrew diagramming and rostering are all equally interesting. Anyway here are a few qualities considered necessary:

A logical thought process.
Meticulous attention to detail.
Ability to work in both a team environment and individually.
Good inter-personal skills to be able to work effectively with external organisations, trade unions, TOCs FOCs and NR.
These are all far more important than knowing, for example, what a class 66 locomotive is.

Qualifications:
It’s a competitive world and TOC / FOC planning vacancies are more scarce than at NR. A cv wth just a few GCSEs is unlikely to stand out against more qualified opposition such as A levels at least.

A lot of train planning can be taught from scratch but certainly some do seem to have an aptitude. Even if you know all there is to know (unlikely) putting it down on paper (or rather in the computer) is a different skill. Finally you never stop learning, there will always be some challenge you haven’t met before.

Thank you very much for the information.

The 3 points you list are things I think I could prove, but not "formally". (For example I am a librarian in charge of 300+ pieces of music for the university wind band, but that's informal and unpaid.) Lacking experience outside my academic "skills" is probably the biggest problem.

In terms of qualifications, if I complete my degree, I'll have that. Otherwise I'm on GCSEs and IB qualifications (which might be good enough from what people have said).

 

[306024]

Luck is the other thing you need. On some days those qualifications may be sufficient, sometimes it depends on the strength of the opposition.

The library example is a good one though. A good interviewer may ask what skills you need to do that and how do you think those could be helpful in a railway planning environment. Don't worry about experience, there is a shortage of experienced train planners and those that do exist will be going for more senior jobs. A willingness to learn is just as important.

 

[LU_timetabler]

Good answers here from NR/TOC side. There's also LU. About 18 or so compilers work on train timetables and a similar number on duty schedules for drivers and station staff. No idea when the next recruitment will run, especially given current circumstances. But what has been mentioned above for NR also applies at LU. The minimum requirement is for GCSE in English and Maths. However of recent times people with degrees in Maths or Engineering or something technical or science related have done well. I agree, one either has an aptitude for it or you don't. They try to find this through testing and interview.
There's a real mix between those who clearly have a strong interest in railway already / may have worked elsewhere in LU, or other TOCs and those who just have an aptitude for it.
There is virtually no pre-sift on applications - everyone that applies is given the initial online tests. The online tests tend to narrow 100s of applicants down to 10-20 people. After that everyone is interviewed and everyone does more tests on the interview day. Assuming you pass the on-the-day test, then selection will be by the interview performance. It is actually very rare that we have more qualified people than roles to give.

LU has bespoke software to aid compilation of train timetables and duty rostas from them.
The training programme is over 40 weeks.

Keep an eye out for "Schedule Compiler" roles at LU on relevant job sites. Also note vacancies often advertised internally before going external. In recent times Customer Service Assistants have made it, and saved external advertising. So whilst no previous railway experience is necessary it is always useful in doing the job AND might get you ahead of other potential applicants simply by having your so-called foot in the door.

 

[telstarbox]

Is it possible to move into train planning at junior / middle management level directly from "outside", or does everyone have to work their way up?

 

[Eloise]

Yes it is. It just makes it more challenging to pick up what your team are doing and then having to explain it to others. You don’t have to have done the doing to be in train planning, plenty haven’t. Helps to get a good team under you if you haven’t...

 

[LU_timetabler]

At LU - junior management would be team leader, that means you are doing timetabling as well as direct managing your team. It would therefore be impossible to join at this level, as you would not be trained to do half of the job. The next level above that would not need to know how to timetable, and could avoid the knowledge of being able to operate the timetabling system, but they would need to gain an appreciation for what the timetabling teams do, how they do it and what they need to achieve it. It also involves being a gatekeeper for the timetabling resource and having a full understanding of why information in-flow deadlines are set where they are. Also the person with the final check and inspect on all timetable publications, prior to publication. Generally that role has been someone from within timetables because of the vast knowledge required to do it, not impossible to come in from elsewhere, but pretty damned close.

 

[Ganerirl]

great information here! im trying to get into the same roles as well without a railway background

 

[Pumbaa]

Is it possible to move into train planning at junior / middle management level directly from "outside", or does everyone have to work their way up?

Yes, and any good team will have a good mix.

 

[Eloise]

Yes, and any good team will have a good mix.

This is true. I've worked with managers who have risen up the ranks as it were with 30+ years on, and managers who have joined from outside. It makes no difference to me as long as they're a good manager. Some managers have a strong technical background and are used for complex planning issues or as sounding boards or on working groups for the detail. Some managers have strong project management skills and are used in a different manner. The skill is having a good mix, you wouldn't want a whole team of technical managers.

The best managers I've had compliment me, I'm technical so want someone non-technical. They leave me to get on with it, trust what I do and give me necessary air cover. They will also call me in for back up when they need to talk the detail. For me they keep me on track, give me air cover and also guidance on the project management side which I'm not a natural in.

Some get caught up and whether someone knows every aspect of the role, I really don't mind, I just want a decent manager!

 

[The Planner]

Yes, and any good team will have a good mix.

Believe me, at one point it went the wrong way towards those who knew nothing and didnt listen!

 

[Eloise]

Believe me, at one point it went the wrong way towards those who knew nothing and didnt listen!

Or worse... those who think they know. I have the greatest of respect for those who put their hand up and go "I don't understand" rather than try and bluff their way through.

 

[The Planner]

Or worse... those who think they know. I have the greatest of respect for those who put their hand up and go "I don't understand" rather than try and bluff their way through.

Or those that ignore the advice and spout an answer that people want to hear. Listening is a quality that has taken time for the race to the top merchants to grasp.

 

[Eloise]

Or those that ignore the advice and spout an answer that people want to hear. Listening is a quality that has taken time for the race to the top merchants to grasp.

You get that in any job.

Anyway, back to the original question in post 16... yes (in some parts of the industry) you can come straight into management without timetable planning or railway experience, a range of management skills and people management skills is probably a must.

 

[Esker-pades]

I'll ressurrect this one again:

I have an offer (which I have accepted) from Network Rail as an Operational Planner.

If any planners on here are willing to share anything about the job (what to expect, what roughly happens, etc.), I would appreciate it. Obviously I've got some stuff from onboarding etc., but any information would be most useful.

 

[The Planner]

I'll ressurrect this one again:

I have an offer (which I have accepted) from Network Rail as an Operational Planner.

If any planners on here are willing to share anything about the job (what to expect, what roughly happens, etc.), I would appreciate it. Obviously I've got some stuff from onboarding etc., but any information would be most useful.

Any idea what area you will be working on, LTP, STP or the freight world?

 

[Esker-pades]

Any idea what area you will be working on, LTP, STP or the freight world?

I've been given a team name from which I'd guess LTP. I won't disclose the team name in public (if you're OK with it I will send it in a direct message).

 

[Roger1973]

At a slight tangent, I have noticed a recent NR advert for operational planner(s?) and related more senior roles at Swindon.

I thought they did all that sort of thing from Milton Keynes (having centralised there some years back and lost a number of experienced staff who didn't want to move house.)

Is there a new policy happening? Are they likely to be setting up more decentralised offices? (Or is my understanding it had all been centralised at MK less than correct?)

 

[Eloise]

<sigh> yes, MK move, still not forgotten I see.

Will do some digging, new one on me. That said I think I know what it might be.