BBC watchdog- train ticketing

[Qwerty133]

Just been on watchdog. Learnt absolutely nothing, neither would the majority of others. Didn't like the option of splitting at MK on a rugby to Euston journey, based on an any permitted ticket.

 

[Squaddie]

Just been on watchdog. Learnt absolutely nothing, neither would the majority of others. Didn't like the option of splitting at MK on a rugby to Euston journey, based on an any permitted ticket.

Maybe you didn't learn anything, but it's likely that the average viewer wouldn't previously have been aware that Advance tickets could be purchased so close to departure, or that split ticketing might result in such savings.

(And I'm amazed that no-one has yet been on here complaining that the presenter called a railcard a "travelcard"... )

 

[hairyhandedfool]

'Split ticketing live' my a**e.....

..... but it's likely that the average viewer wouldn't previously have been aware that Advance tickets could be purchased so close to departure, or that split ticketing might result in such savings....

The average BBC Watchdog viewer? Maybe, but I think I am right in saying they've done "how to save on train tickets" three or four times before (usually with the so called 'money saving expert', though presumably his fee was too much on this occasion), the only thing they added this time (AFAIK) was the Two Together Railcard, and I don't think they made it entirely clear that each one you buy is £30 and requires photos. All that said, the average BBC Watchdog viewer might forget it all by the time they re-hash the piece in January.

.....(And I'm amazed that no-one has yet been on here complaining that the presenter called a railcard a "travelcard"... )

I've heard them called quite a few other things in my time.....

 

[Kite159]

The problem with popular splits being advertised is that the TOCs might find ways to close them (although I would imagine it will be harder than to close a loophole)

 

[yorkie]

The problem with popular splits being advertised is that the TOCs might find ways to close them (although I would imagine it will be harder than to close a loophole)

In many cases, they can't. But I agree it has been done on occasions.

It really depends on the flows concerned (such as what the regulated fares are, who sets each flow, etc...)

 

[David Goddard]

As long as the trains continue to call at the joining station then they will never be able to stop us doing splits.

 

[yorkie]

As long as the trains continue to call at the joining station then they will never be able to stop us doing splits.

No, but they can withdraw/increase them - if the relevant TOC has control over them and the fares they wish to withdraw are not regulated.

 

[RJ]

As long as the trains continue to call at the joining station then they will never be able to stop us doing splits.

I don't know - smartcards with mandatory validations at the point where they are being used from may put paid to that.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I don't know - smartcards with mandatory validations at the point where they are being used from may put paid to that.

It wouldn't stop people splitting as such, but it would increase their journey time if they did.

 

[David Goddard]

Sorry I'm confused. Im not arguing with you Yorkie as I know you know the system better than I, but how for example can they stop me buying Reading to Banbury and Banbury to Birmingham and then using them on the same train? I expect it will be a long time until smartcards replace paper tickets completely.

 

[starrymarkb]

It wouldn't stop people splitting as such, but it would increase their journey time if they did.

You'd be best doing it at a change point in that case.

Out of interest, with Continental tickets that have to be validated before boarding (ie SNCF) I presume the validator's stamp has to match the starting location on the ticket?

 

[Mike@Raileasy]

It's great that Watchdog have clarified for their viewers it's all perfectly legal. It's like a stamp of approval.

This thread was top "organic" listing on Google for "Watchdog split ticketing", that is amazingly quick.

 

[Dennis]

But which is the best split ticket website (for on the day purchases)?

There seems to be a proliferation of them, some seem pretty poor at finding the best splits.

 

[Mike@Raileasy]

The more the merrier I say.

There were tweets from FGW at the end of last week saying they had removed early morning advance fares from Frome because they were being used for splitting.

Seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face or is it the consumer's?

It's not going to grow the rail market though is it?

 

[MarlowDonkey]

I don't know - smartcards with mandatory validations at the point where they are being used from may put paid to that.

I may have this wrong, but I thought I established that for a journey from, say Maidenhead on the GWML to Zone 2, say Hammersmith, you could do Maidenhead to West Drayton by conventional ticket and then West Drayton to Hammersmith by Oyster at a cheaper price than Maidenhead to Ealing Broadway by ticket and Ealing Broadway to Hammersmith by Oyster. The disadvantage being that you had to touch in or out (if returning) at West Drayton. This would probably cost 15 minutes as the train could depart while you were doing this. You don't have to pass through a ticket barrier if changing at Ealing Broadway, but there is a convenient Oyster validator (not a pink one).

 

[Delta558]

Sorry I'm confused. Im not arguing with you Yorkie as I know you know the system better than I, but how for example can they stop me buying Reading to Banbury and Banbury to Birmingham and then using them on the same train? I expect it will be a long time until smartcards replace paper tickets completely.

What he's saying is not that people will be prevented from splitting their tickets, but that if the well known splits are advertised and the relevant TOC sets the fare on those portions, they will simply increase the price of one section so there is no benefit to be gained from splitting. They won't stop you buying a split ticket, but they will stop you benefitting from doing so.

 

[SickyNicky]

A simple search on TrainSplit.com found better prices on two of the three examples and matched the third. Took all of a minute to do. It wouldn't have taken much work for their researcher to find out that such tools exist.

 

[Tetchytyke]

the so called 'money saving expert', though presumably his fee was too much on this occasion

Think he's contracted to ITV these days.

He's always been one to take the credit for other people's hard work, though, so why change the habit of a lifetime?

 

[IanD]

They should have made it clear that when split ticketing you should buy all your tickets up front as the savings may not be available on the train and you could end up paying a whole lot more (or worse, end up with a criminal record).

All we heard was "you have to make sure the train stops at the split points, you don't have to get off to buy another ticket"

 

[Stats]

Maybe you didn't learn anything, but it's likely that the average viewer wouldn't previously have been aware that Advance tickets could be purchased so close to departure, or that split ticketing might result in such savings.

They would only be unaware if they have a short memory or missed the episode on 23 October.

 

[paul1609]

Eventually they will have to come to the conclusion that the existing fares regime is unsustainable and have a complete reset.
Expect much chunterring from certain parts of the country when they are suddenly expected to pay their fair share.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Just been watching this on catch-up. Is the correspondent correct when he says you can't buy CrossCountry's last-minute advances from the station booking office and must buy them online? That seems a bit fishy to me. Unless they use a different reservations system which only CrossCountry's website and app have access to?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Unless they use a different reservations system which only CrossCountry's website and app have access to?

Actually, thinking a bit more, that seems entirely feasible. Looking at a few flows priced by XC on BR Fares, the "last-minute" advances all seem to have an entirely separate range of ticket type codes to the normal advances (and don't have a booking deadline specified, which makes them easy to spot).

So they could block availabilty of these in the reservations system used by the other TOCs and use their own private reservations system for them, I suppose. But if that is what they're doing, I'm surprised the other TOCs allow them to get away with it!

 

[SamS]

Just been watching this on catch-up. Is the correspondent correct when he says you can't buy CrossCountry's last-minute advances from the station booking office and must buy them online? That seems a bit fishy to me. Unless they use a different reservations system which only CrossCountry's website and app have access to?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Actually, thinking a bit more, that seems entirely feasible. Looking at a few flows priced by XC on BR Fares, the "last-minute" advances all seem to have an entirely separate range of ticket type codes to the normal advances (and don't have a booking deadline specified, which makes them easy to spot).

So they could block availabilty of these in the reservations system used by the other TOCs and use their own private reservations system for them, I suppose. But if that is what they're doing, I'm surprised the other TOCs allow them to get away with it!

They were correct with the XC advances only being available on the XC website or app, I've used them before.
They even reserve you a seat, which I was surprised to actually find on board!

 

[bb21]

That is correct only for same-day bookings.

 

[Flamingo]

I have to say, (for various reasons), the only ticketing irregularity I routinely charge up these days is split tickets which are not valid. Advance tickets I don't care, off-peak don't worry me, missing railcards remember it next time, but if you are on a Didcot split and we don't stop between Reading and Swindon, have your wallet ready!

 

[Paul Kelly]

That is correct only for same-day bookings.

It looks like the special "last-minute" ticket types are only sold on the day. For most flows they are at a slightly different price to the normal range of advance price tiers, so it is quite easy to spot them.

 

[SamS]

That is correct only for same-day bookings.

Yes, sorry, I should have made that clear.

It looks like the special "last-minute" ticket types are only sold on the day. For most flows they are at a slightly different price to the normal range of advance price tiers, so it is quite easy to spot them.

From what I can tell (from travelling on CrossCountry advances regularly) they are the same price as the advances that are available beforehand.
Except first class advances in peak times (which aren't normally available) - if you wait till the train has departed it's origin station you can buy a 1st advance for £21 (Between York & Sheffield) after railcard discount, without a railcard they are a similar price to the walk up ticket (which is priced at £33.50).
I assume CrossCountry provide these to make it possible to have an M Ticket.

 

[SickyNicky]

I assume CrossCountry provide these to make it possible to have an M Ticket.

Hmmm. I always assumed that it was so that they didn't have to share the revenue with TPE, EC, Northern (and probably others that I can't bring to mind right now) via ORCATS.

 

[OwlMan]

Hmmm. I always assumed that it was so that they didn't have to share the revenue with TPE, EC, Northern (and probably others that I can't bring to mind right now) via ORCATS.

I thought it was a limited time trial by the DfT & XC to see whether later retailing of advances is worthwhile.

 

[SickyNicky]

I thought it was a limited time trial by the DfT & XC to see whether later retailing of advances is worthwhile.

I'm sure you're right. But the prices often (but granted, not always) seem suspiciously close to the flexible walk-up fare.