BBC - Operators call for new rail lines

[snuk]

Hi all,

Sorry if a thread on this has already been started.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8099912.stm

I don't know that much about it but I'd love to see some improvements in Lincolnshire - my brother lives in Louth which hasn't had it's own station for a long time - I think you have to get the train to Lincoln or Boston and get the bus for the final part of the journey :-x
I haven't tried it yet.

Also, I'm not sure about anyone else but I'm intrigued by the proposed third? high-speed line up the middle of the country.

Steve.

 

[anthony263]

Building new railway lines is just what this country needs, certainly will provide a lot of constructions jobs and hopefully even if the costs are high to build the lines the government will get its money back from increases in tax revenue and reduction in unemployment benefits etc.

One line i think should be re-opened is the line from Pyle to Porthcawl since it will bring a boost to the town much like what has happened with the Ebbw Vale branch being re-opened although the track will have to be relaied and a tunnel build under the M4 near North Cornelly.

another line worth re-opening is the great central since it may bring some releif to the west coast mainline etc

 

[robert2000]

Yes! i agree with you, i think Wales would be a good starting point for re opening lines.

 

[dave12435]

far and away theforerunner in aline that shud be reopemed is the great central it is even possible to rebuild it as a High Speed Line oir use at least some of the route for a high speed line
another one is the route through the Woodhead tunnels as part of that or as a seperate route across the pennines to releieve the exisiting ones possibly the route through matlock as well

 

[Oswyntail]

..and please don't forget Colne to Skipton (Sadly, I think Skipton to Ilkley is lost forever)

 

[Bayum]

It's pretty easy to get between Skipton and Ilkley though, regardless.

 

[Waverley125]

just off of the top of my head, some good reopenings:

Skipton-Colne
Burley in Wharfedale-Otley
Cross Gates-Wetherby-Harrogate-Ripon-Northallerton
Spalding-Boston
Spalding-March
Peterborough-Wellingborough-Northampton
Aylesbury-Rugby-Leicester
Cambridge-Huntingdon
Cambridge-Sandy-Bedford
Bletchley-Bicester
Verney Junction-Banbury
Keighley-Queensbury-Halifax
Garforth-Kippax-Castleford
Knaresborough-Boroughbridge
Bradford-Cleckheaton-Liversedge-Heckmondwike-Wakefield

 

[me123]

The Scottish Parliament have already seen the benefits of reopening rail lines. Larkhall* and Stirling-Alloa-Kincardine will, I am sure, both be good examples to stimulate more openings elsewhere. We're also re-opening Airdrie-Bathgate and the Waverley Line, both of which look set to be successes, and opening an entire new line to Glasgow Airport.

I'd love politicians to see the benefits of rail links, and it would be fantastic for more of the English network to be reinstated.

 

[tbtc]

The danger with a topic like this is that it becomes just a list of closed lines, rather than a realistic discussion about one or two lines that should be reopened.

Something like the Bicester - Bletchley or Matlock - Buxton lines would add new capacity to the railways, and potentially take freight away from "pinch points". However, some of the others are just listing...

 

[williamn]

Yes agree with the above poster. The list that ATOC has produced seems like a very rational and affordable way forward.

 

[Waverley125]

the ones I've listed would either provide strategic freight/passenger links or Open up lines to commuters in built up areas.

 

[EltonRoad]

This is a slight problem with Cambridge - Huntingdon though, the route to St Ives is nearing completion as the UK's longest Guided Busway! Hooray. Not.

 

[Philip Elliott]

the ones I've listed would either provide strategic freight/passenger links or Open up lines to commuters in built up areas.

A good list you've got.....except for Boston - Spalding - a slight problem with the A15 there!

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

If they relinked the avon valley railway back to westerleigh junction, and then put in a link to the mainline to the bath-bristol line near bitton, you would have a railfreight route that would completely bypass Bristol, and would have some utility in moving passengers into Bath. I note that there is some discussion at present in creating a new bus route into the old green park station, which I believe would result in some people losing their gardens. Added to the investment above, if you actually put track down instead, you would have another station in Bath, this time with a direct connection to the GWML.

Fantasy railways of course, nobody would think of putting that kind of investment in. Bath and Bristol councils have track records of spending lots of money on projects that either come in over budget or never get built. look at the Bath spa and the Bristol tramway as examples.

 

[Buffer68]

Well, some good news for a change! They were talking about this on South Today news this morning and is also on their web site. Apparently some old lines could be reopened which is excellent news. What with Peak Oil becoming ever nearer, the train will once again be the way to travel and transport goods.

 

[will1337]

I agree with tbtc. Lines such as Matlock - Buxton which link up missing pieces of the network should be a priority. Uckfield - Lewes would be another candidate. Bicester to Bletchley and then on from Bedford to Cambridge would be great for linking up main lines as well as freight as has been mentioned.

However, I think despite there being plans for new stations on existing track, there should be considerable thought put in to stopping patterns. The potential Oxford to Bedford and on route should have expresses as well as stoppers. If all services stopped everywhere then it could still be useful for local journeys but it wouldn't have much potential as a London avoiding line if it'd be quicker to go via London.

 

[Waverley125]

Boston-Spalding could be rebuilt adjacent to the original alignment, with some extra work to get the line back into Spalding & Boston town centres.

And agreed, though not always the case. E.g. reopening Garforth-Castleford would allow opening of new stations in East leeds, with services running all stops to Castleford via Garforth & Kippax.

Peterborough-Northampton, however, I'd want reopened with wires, and served by an LM Euston-Peterborough service, which could call only northampton, Wellinborough, Higham Ferrers, Thrapston and Oundle.

 

[Dewedin]

just off of the top of my head, some good reopenings:
.....................
Bradford-Cleckheaton-Liversedge-Heckmondwike-Wakefield

Not going to happen I'm afraid it's a well-used cycle/foot path now

 

[j0hn0]

Peterborough-Northampton, however, I'd want reopened with wires, and served by an LM Euston-Peterborough service, which could call only northampton, Wellinborough, Higham Ferrers, Thrapston and Oundle.

The definitely needs to be more of a cross country option like this.

Another option could be Rugby - Market Harborough - Peterborough, it could provide a higher speed cross country route providing paths from say Birmingham to Peterborough, Norwich, Ipswich etc. Would also improve diversionary routes and link WCML with MML directly and when subsequently electrified, would all fit together nicely.

I think that there are also many different small little branch lines which should be opened as PPM commuter lines, then as demand increases, add more services.

 

[GNERman]

..and please don't forget Colne to Skipton (Sadly, I think Skipton to Ilkley is lost forever)

yeh how could ANYONE forget Skipton - Colne?

yeah Skipton - Ilkley is a no chance unless you carve through the centre of addingham, kill a few hundred people and then it might happen...

also please look at my signature to do with SELRAP...

 

[stut]

The definitely needs to be more of a cross country option like this.

Well, it would make sense to have a few, just as the East-West line is considering multiple routes.

Why not:

Witham - Stansted, mostly following the Dunmow line.
Hertford East - Luton - Dunstable - Leighton Buzzard
Hatfield - St Albans Abbey

(and this, of course, on top of the existing East-West proposals)

Some great airport and parkway connections to be had there, as well as joining some dots and bringing back trains to some overlooked destinations (Dunstable in particular). Just get in quick before yet another (mis)guided busway is installed...

 

[gordonthemoron]

talking of busways, there was an article in a recent edition of the Irish Times suggesting that CIE was considering using something like a Parry People Mover for Waterford to Limerick Junction, the mind boggles

 

[tbtc]

Peterborough-Northampton, however, I'd want reopened with wires, and served by an LM Euston-Peterborough service, which could call only northampton, Wellinborough, Higham Ferrers, Thrapston and Oundle.

I could see Peterborough-Northampton working as a "stand alone" service, or Peterborough - Northampton - Milton Keynes - Bicester - Oxford (connecting to the MML at Wellingboough), but why would you run a service non stop Euston - Northampton - Wellingborough and local stations to Peterborough?

First of all, can you justify a non stop Euston - Northampton train (given the limited number of WCML paths, given VHF etc)?

Second, why no Milton Keynes etc?

Thirdly, and more importantly, who'd use this service? London to Wellingborough would be quicker via the MML, London to Peterborough via the ECML, London to Higham Ferrers/ Thrapston/ Oundle would probably be quicker changng Peterborough too.

 

[anthony263]

Another good service would be a Milton Keynes - Oxford - Didcot - Bristol TM, since the old Bristol - Oxford service was very popular before it was withdrawn then extending it to milton keynes would be a very good idea and should be very popular.

Maybe if the service is operated as part of the great western franchise then maybe it could be operated using class 166 turbo's when they are displaced from the london -oxford services

 

[A0]

Boston-Spalding could be rebuilt adjacent to the original alignment, with some extra work to get the line back into Spalding & Boston town centres.

And agreed, though not always the case. E.g. reopening Garforth-Castleford would allow opening of new stations in East leeds, with services running all stops to Castleford via Garforth & Kippax.

Peterborough-Northampton, however, I'd want reopened with wires, and served by an LM Euston-Peterborough service, which could call only northampton, Wellinborough, Higham Ferrers, Thrapston and Oundle.

I think you're missing the point of what ATOC are looking at - they're focussing on areas which aren't part of the rail network and would gain real benefit form being linked up.

Spalding - Boston is no point, because both are currently on the network.

Peterboro - Northampton makes little sense either. There is a very good bus link between Northampton & Peterboro which is rarely full. Northampton, Peterborough and Wellingborough already have a good service. Higham Ferrers is close enough to Wellingborough to not warrant a station. Thrapston is close enough to Kettering. And also large parts of the formation are no longer available
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well, it would make sense to have a few, just as the East-West line is considering multiple routes.

Why not:

Witham - Stansted, mostly following the Dunmow line.
Hertford East - Luton - Dunstable - Leighton Buzzard
Hatfield - St Albans Abbey

(and this, of course, on top of the existing East-West proposals)

Some great airport and parkway connections to be had there, as well as joining some dots and bringing back trains to some overlooked destinations (Dunstable in particular). Just get in quick before yet another (mis)guided busway is installed...

Braintree - Stansted makes sense and the route is largely available.

With Hertford - Luton - Dunstable, if you're thinking of reinstating the old Hertford - WGC and WGC - Luton that's a non starter. I don't think the Hertford E - Hertford N formation is available any longer. Hertford - WGC is available, but given that line closed years before Beeching it shows that it really wasn't viable.

WGC - Luton, the formation has been built on in WGC, the A1(M) was built after the railway had gone so there would be a very expensive crossing there, from Ayot - Wheathampstead various bridges have gone, Wheathampstead has part of the formation built on, and in Luton much of the formation has gone. Additionally, the only place you'd add back onto the network is Wheathampstead, which really couldn't justify a station.

Alternative would be a new line from Stevenage - Luton, but that would be straight across green belt land which is, quite rightly, protected.

Luton - Dunstable is becoming a busway. And from Dunstable - Leighton Buzzard the formation has gone, built on in Dunstable, Stanbridge and Leighton Buzzard.

Hatfield - St Albans is also a non-starter. Again, it closed years before Beeching so its viability is in doubt. Also the formation has been built on in Hatfield - I'm pretty sure the Galleria is partly on the formation.....

The only way you'd do Hatfield - St Albans now would be a branch off around Welham Green and through Colney Heath area - again all Green Belt and rightly protected.

 

[tbtc]

Another good service would be a Milton Keynes - Oxford - Didcot - Bristol TM, since the old Bristol - Oxford service was very popular before it was withdrawn then extending it to milton keynes would be a very good idea and should be very popular.

Maybe if the service is operated as part of the great western franchise then maybe it could be operated using class 166 turbo's when they are displaced from the london -oxford services

That sounds sensible to me - since the "east west" link won't serve Milton Keynes (Bletchley being the closest), I can see the logic in having a direct link from MK to Bicester/ Oxford etc, as an alternative to changing at Birmingham. That'd be a good time to reintroduce the Bristol service, which means the existing Swindon HSTs could scale down their Didcot service, speeding them up (Didcot to Reading/ London covered by the Oxford - Paddington services).

Combine an hourly Bristol - Milton Keynes service with an hourly Oxford - Bedford (and beyond) service, and you have a half hourly Oxford - Bletchley service, with links to lots of other places.

 

[THEWARRIOR]

Surprised to see no mention of the line from Wymondham to Dereham - Dereham is about the same size as Wisbech (which is mentioned) having massively grown from about 10,000 in 1970 when the line closed to over 20,000 now. The mid norfolk railway runs trains on track that seems to be in good condition. Currently commuting to Norwich involves sitting on the A47 and barely moving.

Perhaps the mid norfolk railway despite their original plans to run a commuter service actually want it to stay a backwater as that would be better for their tourist custom.

 

[Harry Douthwaite]

Alternative would be a new line from Stevenage - Luton, but that would be straight across green belt land which is, quite rightly, protected.

Luton - Dunstable is becoming a busway. And from Dunstable - Leighton Buzzard the formation has gone, built on in Dunstable, Stanbridge and Leighton Buzzard.

The only way you'd do Hatfield - St Albans now would be a branch off around Welham Green and through Colney Heath area - again all Green Belt and rightly protected.

Yeah, but those problems can quite easily be solved by a "Compulsory Purchase Order". If the government sees the above routes viable, a compulsory purchase order can be imposed and considered by the local council/s. If it's approved, then the land becomes brown-belt land.

 

[The Planner]

Combine an hourly Bristol - Milton Keynes service with an hourly Oxford - Bedford (and beyond) service, and you have a half hourly Oxford - Bletchley service, with links to lots of other places.

That wont work, as there are no plans to put a platform on the flyover to serve Bletchley, and you cant access the station otherwise. Chiltern are likely to run an Oxford - Milton Keynes service, alongside the Aylesbury one. Diverting various XC services that way via the WCML is also being talked about.

 

[stut]

Fair enough points where there's been extensive new building on top of disused railway lines. However, I don't really think pre-Beeching closures are still relevant: surely any case for a reopening should take into account current populations and travel patterns above all else?

As for green belt land being built on, funny how it's OK when there's a new by-pass being built, eh?