BBC Inside Out ''Why are Trains so Overcrowded in the NW''

[Cliveblackpool]

Inside Out North West Tonight. (Sky 958) 7.30 tonight
''Why are Trains overcrowded in the region?''
Southport MP John Pugh - ''Pacers should be withdrawn on safety grounds''
Northern - They meet current safety...

Paul Ross cycles the Way of the Roses - Morecambe to Bridlington.

 

[trainophile]

Thanks for that. I'll be watching.

 

[merlodlliw]

Inside Out North West Tonight. (Sky 958) 7.30 tonight
''Why are Trains overcrowded in the region?''
Southport MP John Pugh - ''Pacers should be withdrawn on safety grounds''
Northern - They meet current safety...

Paul Ross cycles the Way of the Roses - Morecambe to Bridlington.

Its also on Freesat & FTA both on Astra 28.8 all over the UK as not everyone subs to watch tv, just to set the record with no disrespect to Clive.
I am a FTA fan.

Bob

 

[Deerfold]

Inside Out North West Tonight. (Sky 958) 7.30 tonight
''Why are Trains overcrowded in the region?''
Southport MP John Pugh - ''Pacers should be withdrawn on safety grounds''

I'd want to make sure there's some replacements available before forcing this! "Replaced" might be a better word than "withdrawn".

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Its also on Freesat & FTA both on Astra 28.8 all over the UK as not everyone subs to watch tv, just to set the record with no disrespect to Clive.
I am a FTA fan.

Bob

Many thanks for those extra details.
I only have 'free' Sky (no card) or freeview!
Probably Freesat may the the next move for me!

 

[Deerfold]

Many thanks for those extra details.
I only have 'free' Sky (no card) or freeview!
Probably Freesat may the the next move for me!

Of course if you're in the North West area covered then it'll be on normal BBC.

If you're on Freesky you should be able to watch regional BBC as per the Sky channel number.

Will it also be on iplayer?

 

[eastdyke]

I've just checked BBC iplayer and all of the regional programmes from last week appear to be available.

All of the Regional variations tonight seem to be on a transport theme, mostly car travel 'are we falling out of love with ...'. But I do notice some other rail bits in both the North East and the South West.

 

[merlodlliw]

Many thanks for those extra details.
I only have 'free' Sky (no card) or freeview!
Probably Freesat may the the next move for me!

Cheers, for those like me using Satellite free to air, the frequency for BBC North West is

Sat Astra 28.2 east, transponder 47. 10803 Horizontal. fec 22000 5/6

http://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-28A-and-Astra-1N-2A-2B-2F.html

 

[Old Yard Dog]

My very old Freesat PACE box from Sky gives me all the regional variations for BBC1 & BBC2 on numbers between 960 and 999.

However I have to tune in the different ITV regions.

And the simple answer to the question is "Because the trains are very short, usually 2- or 3-car DMUs, and don't run often enough"

 

[Squaddie]

Cheers, for those like me using Satellite free to air, the frequency for BBC North West is

Sat Astra 28.2 east, transponder 47. 10803 Horizontal. fec 22000 5/6

... or you could just select channel 955.

 

[DJ737]

G'day

I think I might VPN into the BBC for this show, most BBC programming can be obtained from other sources soon after it's broadcast so I don't normally bother. My VPN connects to BBC London for live TV, so I have to wait for regional programs on catch-up.

Cheers
DJ737
Melbourne, Australia

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Well I learnt something new! Apparently Winsford was a head-on collision!:roll:

 

[tbtc]

Not just "busy", not just "crowded", but "so overcrowded"?

TBF the north west of England is one of the biggest beneficiaries over electrification and other infrastructure improvements over the rest of this decade (as well as new tram routes etc).

 

[Manchester77]

The north west is getting iirc:-
New metrolink trams, lines, signalling etc
Victoria station redevelopment
Class 507/8 replacements
TPE electrification
Ordsall Chord
10 TPE 350s
Refurbished 319s
Pacer replacement
The NSE area is getting iirc:-
Thameslink 2000
Crossrail
LO orbital railway
S stock (LU)
2009 stock* (LU)
Evo tube train** (1972/2, 1973 and possible 1992 replacement stock)
GWML electrification#
MML electrification#
IEP#

* - ik it's already been delivered but it shows that LU alone has got more new trains than northern has got in its franchise
** - prototype due 2015 apparently
# - aren't in the full NSE area but will benefit NSE

Oh I've used NSE to mean London and the southeastern area (Network SouthEast )

 

[Deerfold]

The north west is getting iirc:-
New metrolink trams, lines, signalling etc
Victoria station redevelopment
Class 507/8 replacements
TPE electrification
Ordsall Chord
10 TPE 350s
Refurbished 319s
Pacer replacement
The NSE area is getting iirc:-
Thameslink 2000
Crossrail
LO orbital railway
S stock (LU)
2009 stock* (LU)
Evo tube train** (1972/2, 1973 and possible 1992 replacement stock)
GWML electrification#
MML electrification#
IEP#

* - ik it's already been delivered but it shows that LU alone has got more new trains than northern has got in its franchise
** - prototype due 2015 apparently
# - aren't in the full NSE area but will benefit NSE

Oh I've used NSE to mean London and the southeastern area (Network SouthEast )

Yes London's getting/got more than Manchester - but is anywhere else even coming close?

 

[Manchester77]

Yes London's getting/got more than Manchester - but is anywhere else even coming close?

Probably not. The problem is the infrastructure we put in place now decides what kind of country we are later. Whether we're service based or London based etc. it's a tough choice....

 

[tbtc]

The north west is getting iirc:-
New metrolink trams, lines, signalling etc
Victoria station redevelopment
Class 507/8 replacements
TPE electrification
Ordsall Chord
10 TPE 350s
Refurbished 319s
Pacer replacement

Plus other electrification (Chat Moss line, Liverpool - Wigan etc), Todmorden Chord, two new "through" platforms at Piccadilly, new platform(s?) at Manchester Airport (since you are going back to 2009 for your "London" improvements), new platforms at places like Stalybridge... I don't think that anyone could argue that the north west of England isn't getting at least its fair share of investment.

 

[merlodlliw]

... or you could just select channel 955.

no such channel numbers on Free To Air, Channel numbers are only generated from the EPG for the boxes of Freesat & Sky .

I don't use either.


Bob

 

[cslusarc]

It was one interesting show. I saw it using the BBC iPlayer (using a UK VPN from here in Canada).

The show discusses several issues:

- That there was some 40% traffic growth in Northern's franchise area since the franchise began far and above the zero percent growth estimated by the DfT.
- As a result: at peak times trains are overcrowded more that ever, creating an unsafe traveling environment.
- That the old pacers are operating beyond their estimated life expectancy and too dangerous to be operating today.
- The theory of Peak Car. That private car use (per capita) is declining in several regions in the UK. That if the trend continues or accelerates that we will see an underfunding gap in railway infrastructure.

 

[northwichcat]

I've highlighted the ones that are confirmed and have expected dates in blue. The ones in red are expected to happen but there is no expected date for it happening. Pacer replacement is a bit like class 313 replacement in the South East, expected but no program in place for it to happen.

The north west is getting iirc:-
New metrolink trams, lines, signalling etc
Victoria station redevelopment
Class 507/8 replacements
TPE electrification
Ordsall Chord
10 TPE 350s
Refurbished 319s
Pacer replacement
The NSE area is getting iirc:-
Thameslink 2000
Crossrail
LO orbital railway
S stock (LU)
2009 stock* (LU)
Evo tube train** (1972/2, 1973 and possible 1992 replacement stock)
GWML electrification#
MML electrification#
IEP#

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Plus other electrification (Chat Moss line, Liverpool - Wigan etc), Todmorden Chord, two new "through" platforms at Piccadilly, new platform(s?) at Manchester Airport (since you are going back to 2009 for your "London" improvements), new platforms at places like Stalybridge... I don't think that anyone could argue that the north west of England isn't getting at least its fair share of investment.

North West is getting hundreds of millions across all schemes. Crossrail alone is getting billions.

 

[tbtc]

the old pacers are operating beyond their estimated life expectancy and too dangerous to be operating today

If they were too dangerous to be operating today then they would have been withdrawn (on our safety concious railway).

Look at how a class is suddenly withdrawn when a problem occurs (didn't LM's 350s have something like this a year or so ago?).

 

[northwichcat]

If they were too dangerous to be operating today then they would have been withdrawn (on our safety concious railway).

Unfortunately, sometimes the term dangerous is only decided on when a serious accident involving passengers occurs, like with the mk1 stock.

Look at how a class is suddenly withdrawn when a problem occurs (didn't LM's 350s have something like this a year or so ago?).

I don't recall that but I do recall the 350/1s being subleased to Southern for some reason.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

If they were too dangerous to be operating today then they would have been withdrawn (on our safety concious railway).

Look at how a class is suddenly withdrawn when a problem occurs (didn't LM's 350s have something like this a year or so ago?).

It was unfortunate that many lines they were 'mis'-designed for were completely unsuitable for a vehicle with a long wheelbase and or few driving wheels.

An effort should be put into relocating them on lines with 'light' traffic.
Eg use them on Exmouth -Exeter - Barnstaple, Truro to Falmouth, etc.
(They are unsuitable for Gunnislake, Newquay, and Looe lines)
If they by some miracle reopened Plymouth to Tavistock in the near future, and possible Okehampton type lines these vehicles would be a good stop gap.

 

[tbtc]

Unfortunately, sometimes the term dangerous is only decided on when a serious accident involving passengers occurs, like with the mk1 stock

True, but Pacers are "safe" as far as the current regulations go. That may change in future (as standards improve), but I don't like the idea of calling them "unsafe" - if they were deemed to be unsafe then they wouldn't be allowed out in service. Am sure the TOCs have to carry out checks on such things.

It was unfortunate that many lines they were 'mis'-designed for were completely unsuitable for a vehicle with a long wheelbase and or few driving wheels.

An effort should be put into relocating them on lines with 'light' traffic.
Eg use them on Exmouth -Exeter - Barnstaple, Truro to Falmouth, etc.
(They are unsuitable for Gunnislake, Newquay, and Looe lines)
If they by some miracle reopened Plymouth to Tavistock in the near future, and possible Okehampton type lines these vehicles would be a good stop gap.

I agree with the idea of putting them on self contained branches, but we don't have many of them (East Anglia could be another destination, as could many routes around Lincoln though if you want to segregate them from "main lines").

That's a different argument from being "dangerous" though

 

[Wolfie]

The north west is getting iirc:-
New metrolink trams, lines, signalling etc
Victoria station redevelopment
Class 507/8 replacements
TPE electrification
Ordsall Chord
10 TPE 350s
Refurbished 319s
Pacer replacement
The NSE area is getting iirc:-
Thameslink 2000
Crossrail
LO orbital railway
S stock (LU)
2009 stock* (LU)
Evo tube train** (1972/2, 1973 and possible 1992 replacement stock)
GWML electrification#
MML electrification#
IEP#
* - ik it's already been delivered but it shows that LU alone has got more new trains than northern has got in its franchise
** - prototype due 2015 apparently
# - aren't in the full NSE area but will benefit NSE

Oh I've used NSE to mean London and the southeastern area (Network SouthEast )

my bold

Others have already pointed out your timeline errors, I will point out your georgaphical errors! Since when are lines which go from London to either Yorksjire or Cornwall part of the South East? Frankly any credibility yout post may have had is blown away by that deliberate misrepresentation alone!

Oh, and I am sorry but Manchester is not in the same class in terms of commuter load, population, size or frankly importance as London. If anywhere has cause to complain I would say it is Birmingham and the West Midlands about the disproportionate spending in the North West!

 

[Manchester77]

^^^^
I did say that they won't entirely be fit NSE but there will be some benefits for the area...

 

[Eagle]

If anywhere has cause to complain I would say it is Birmingham and the West Midlands about the disproportionate spending in the North West!

Upcoming (before 2020) improvements to passenger services in the West Midlands:

• Birmingham New Street redevelopment
• Norton Bridge remodelling
• Walsall to Rugeley electrification
• Oxford to Nuneaton electrification (along with redoubling some of Leamington to Coventry)
• Cross-City extension to Bromsgrove
• New 350s for London Midland
• Midland Metro extension to New Street

Recent improvements in the last three or four years:

• Birmingham Moor Street redevelopment
• New 172s for LM
• New and extended 390s
• Chiltern line improvements (linespeed, resignalling and remodelling)
• 110 mph running for 350s on the WCML

(Probably incomplete :P)

 

[sprinterguy]

Oh, and I am sorry but Manchester is not in the same class in terms of commuter load, population, size or frankly importance as London. If anywhere has cause to complain I would say it is Birmingham and the West Midlands about the disproportionate spending in the North West!

You have got to be kidding. Manchester must be at least the economic equal of Birmingham and yet Manchester lags far, far behind the excellent standards that are already set by the heavy rail services provided in the West Midlands. Manchester is not the equal of London, but it is much further behind in terms of investment in heavy rail services than would be proportional to it's economic and commercial importance.

 

[bluenoxid]

For the shiggles, can anyone tell me what the North East of England rail network is getting?

 

[northwichcat]

For the shiggles, can anyone tell me what the North East of England rail network is getting?

For certain the headline 3 hour Newcastle-Liverpool service, which will become EMU operated. Newcastle is likely to get 2tph to Manchester and beyond but I don't know what Middlesbrough will get - a shuttle service to York or diverted XC Voyager services?

As Pacer replacement has been mentioned (even though there is no program for it) the North East will certainly benefit from any such scheme.

Also as Manchester Metrolink has been mentioned, Tyne and Wear Metro is currently undergoing/has undergone a £255m modernisation program with proposed future developments also on the cards.