BBC Documentary 'The Railways'

[jon0844]

Definitely safer if locals thought a local man would simply wait to let them cross or would always stop the trains if they crossed dangerously!

 

[Tomnick]

I don't think that's the case - folk will cross dangerously regardless of the method of control or location of supervision (which most are ingorant to anyway). A crossing keeper monitoring the crossing directly is far more likely to notice someone doing so (like the elderly woman starting to hobble across just as the leading barriers were starting to lower) and stop the sequence than someone who's instead attending to another one of many CCTV crossings. Yes, a trapped person should be observed (and released) when the operator scans the crossing prior to pressing 'crossing clear' (and I'm not disputing that they are 'safe' in that respect!), but there's a greater chance that they'll fail to observe them and pull off with someone still trapped (a rare event, but it can and does happen!).

 

[38Cto15E]

Like many members I found this weeks programme interesting but disjointed.

" Like painting the Forth bridge" I said to the wife that they do not have to paint the bridge anymore.

The elderly lady at Steventon level crossing ignored the warning sirens and lights, she wasn't exactly Usain Bolt either.

I also picked up on the "your reserved seats will be OK on tomorrows train"

With some of the rubbish that is on TV at the moment, they could have made this series last for 12 or 13 weeks. Last night there was 3 and half hours food progs on TV, maybe about time we had a TV food programme covering railway food.

 

[Bald Rick]

Re LX - I'm afraid to say that in my time managing signal and crossing 'boxes, at supervised crossings I had more irregular working - ie incidents where the crossing operator was at fault - at manned crossings than CCTV, and all of the most serious irregular working events were at manned crossings.

Having CCTV also helps with prosecutions.

 

[Tomnick]

I can't argue against your experience, but it's difficult to understand how (at least as far as the process of lowering the barriers and pulling off is concerned) someone sitting looking at one of several crossings on a CCTV monitor is less likely to make an error and trap someone on the crossing than someone who's standing at a window looking over the crossing and, in most cases, watching the whole sequence!

 

[IanXC]

" Like painting the Forth bridge" I said to the wife that they do not have to paint the bridge anymore.

He said "its like painting the Forth Road Bridge"

 

[AlexS]

MCB-OD - pain in the arse. Snow falls and you have to re-man every crossing to keep the railway open as it thinks it is an obstruction. I'm sure the Norwich to Ely line passengers really appreciated their resignalling this winter! 'A problem at a level crossing' seemed to be a constant thing throughout.

 

[oversteer]

I suppose with a manned crossing, when the copper magpies come to visit, or the entire contents of your comms box get stolen, you can at least operate the box by radio !

 

[BuhSnarf]

I can't argue against your experience, but it's difficult to understand how (at least as far as the process of lowering the barriers and pulling off is concerned) someone sitting looking at one of several crossings on a CCTV monitor is less likely to make an error and trap someone on the crossing than someone who's standing at a window looking over the crossing and, in most cases, watching the whole sequence!

I'd imagine there would be some part of the person monitoring at CCTV level is most likely in an air conditioned office with others around them making sure they are doing there job. No disrespect to those in the box but it must be a long and lonely day where you're maybe going to keep yourself occupied with radio/paper between trains (or most likely mobile phone internet these days) and these can be unintended distractions.

I've never worked a line crossing but have done single man operation and find that long shifts on your own sometimes take the edge off and end up with you missing things.

But would be interesting to hear from someone with experience or to see facts of incidents in manned vs CCTV crossings.

Also - once the barriers are down if someone does cross the line I'd imagine not much that crossing man can do as train will already be too late to stop?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Tomnick]

There are, of course, numerous potential distactions in any signal box - some necessary, some legitimate and, being realistic, some less so. Part of the skill of the job is being able to put those distractions aside, which I'd suggest is easier to do in a box where you've got to stand at the crossing controls by the window (usually away from the newspaper!) rather than remaining in a nice comfortable chair at a workstation or panel.

Every MCB crossing (i.e. controlled from the adjacent box) requires you to keep the lower button depressed whilst the barriers are actually descending, so you're watching the whole sequence rather than just looking once the sequence is complete - so you'll see a 'situation' develop as someone or something enters the crossing, rather than just seeing the possibly static obstruction on the crossing afterwards. To my mind, that means you're far more likely to notice that something's wrong.

Finally, if someone or something enters the crossing once the 'crossing clear' button has been pressed and the protecting signals have been cleared, there's probably not a lot that you can do about it. Someone in a box adjacent to the crossing is again more likely to notice the problem than the chap on the other end of the CCTV (whose monitor will usually automatically turn off as soon as he presses 'crossing clear'!) and at least take measures to try and protect the situation.

 

[Cletus]

What was the name of the village featured with the level crossing?

 

[Buttsy]

What was the name of the village featured with the level crossing?

Steventon, in what is locally known as 'occupied North Berkshire' following boundary changes in 1974.

 

[Cletus]

Thank you.

I notice on google streetview that there's two level crossings plus a road bridge in the village. Would he have controlled both crossings at the same time?

Presumably having the road bridge and the 2nd unmanned crossing would reduce the villagers case to keep one manned? Or even have one shut completely?

 

[stevefreestone]

Had to laugh in episode 5 at the lazy police officer who had the cameras on level crossings only bothered about cars going through on red and not the pedestrians. I suppose much easier prosecutions.

 

[jon0844]

I don't think that's the case - folk will cross dangerously regardless of the method of control or location of supervision (which most are ingorant to anyway). A crossing keeper monitoring the crossing directly is far more likely to notice someone doing so (like the elderly woman starting to hobble across just as the leading barriers were starting to lower) and stop the sequence than someone who's instead attending to another one of many CCTV crossings. Yes, a trapped person should be observed (and released) when the operator scans the crossing prior to pressing 'crossing clear' (and I'm not disputing that they are 'safe' in that respect!), but there's a greater chance that they'll fail to observe them and pull off with someone still trapped (a rare event, but it can and does happen!).

I can see someone people will do that anyway, but felt that these people did so purely because they felt they could with someone simply willing to wait and give them the extra time.

I'd expect that once it's all empty, they might just reconsider jumping the lights.

 

[charlee]

Good episode, loved the ebbw valley reopening bit, wish we saw more of that. The merseyrail was interesting as I have never and prob will never use it so was good to have a look into the network. However the episode was bit packed, should have just focused on ebbw vale and merseyrail. Leaving the boring kings cross stuff out.



Next week is about Scotland that should be a good episode.

Here's hoping for a second series, I really enjoy it.

 

[Tomnick]

Thank you.

I notice on google streetview that there's two level crossings plus a road bridge in the village. Would he have controlled both crossings at the same time?

Presumably having the road bridge and the 2nd unmanned crossing would reduce the villagers case to keep one manned? Or even have one shut completely?

Without checking, I think the same chap also controls the other (CCTV!) crossing. Despite my arguments against the statement that CCTV crossings are safer than MCBs (which I'm still not convinced by), I don't think the villagers really had a great case for retaining the crossing keeper. There shouldn't be any great risk associated with the use of either type of crossing (especially if used properly), and certainly there's little justification for retaining someone to provide brief conversation to lonely elderly folk!

 

[jon0844]

Had to laugh in episode 5 at the lazy police officer who had the cameras on level crossings only bothered about cars going through on red and not the pedestrians. I suppose much easier prosecutions.

I got the feeling that the people running over the tracks, and even jumping the barriers because they left it so late, are so frequent that the production company probably got hours of footage of that.

I wonder how many people are prosecuted for it? Perhaps the police just know it's a worthless battle and opt to just go after the easy prosecutions, where a car is photographed with the registration.

 

[Tomnick]

I can see someone people will do that anyway, but felt that these people did so purely because they felt they could with someone simply willing to wait and give them the extra time.

I don't think it's as much a case of "willing to wait" as simply stopping the sequence to avoid trapping them and thus probably delaying the train whilst they're released! A few well chosen words of advice would have been appropriate, especially to a regular user.

 

[jon0844]

Of course the person isn't willing to wait, but he's thought of as the friendly guy who says hello, has a chat and will hold up the trains to let you cross whenever you want.

A perception thing, not reality.. but that was the impression I got from the film (which obviously could have been severely edited to give that view). I think some residents perhaps forgot that he had a job to do and walking through on red was NOT helping him, or the passengers on trains made to stop or slow down for no good reason.

 

[Tomnick]

A fair point, but I wonder both how much of a show was being put on by the locals, and how much was lost in the editing process! I can't help but think, especially with the delay attributors chasing everyone and the emphasis on level crossing safety, that regular level crossing abuse of this sort might have been taken further if it existed.

 

[GodAtum]

Why dont Merseyrail have ticket barriers. And why are there no ticket barriers at the Virgin Euston platforms?

 

[Hellfire]

why are there no ticket barriers at the Virgin Euston platforms?

I've often wondered that. I regularly get the 1630 which runs non stop to Preston. They always have four or five people checking tickets at the gate which is a lot of man/woman power.

Given that the train runs 2 hours non-stop to Preston surely it would be more cost effective for the TM to do the ticket check.

 

[Bedpan]

Having people at the ticket barrier though is a much more customer friendly way of dealing with people who have the wrong ticket - they can be turned away before they get on the train and get clobbered with £££s of extra to pay as their ticket isn't valid on that particular service.

 

[Statto]

Why dont Merseyrail have ticket barriers. And why are there no ticket barriers at the Virgin Euston platforms?

Merseyrail do have ticket barriers at all Liverpool City Centre stations,Conway Park, Hamilton Square, Liverpool South Parkway, Southport think Birkenhead Central has ticket barriers however at most other stations on the network it's impracticable to install them due to the layout of the station.

 

[Butts]

I'm sure someone mentioned in either the latest or an earlier programme that in France The Rail Lines are not fenced in and you trespass at your peril

Seems like a sensible attitude to take - the onus is on the offenders not the Rail Company / Track Maintainer.

 

[jon0844]

It would be an enormous switch and I am sure that we'd very soon have bodies all over the tracks.

 

[Hellfire]

Having people at the ticket barrier though is a much more customer friendly way of dealing with people who have the wrong ticket - they can be turned away before they get on the train and get clobbered with £££s of extra to pay as their ticket isn't valid on that particular service.

And, sod's law. I'm on the 1630 from Euston and no check at the barriers today.

 

[EM2]

One brief segment that I did like was the EC guy saying why they had no trains. 'We've used up all the ones at the depot'.

 

[TDK]

They're used to replace AHBs with full-barrier crossings, without having to add a human in the loop.

The ones that are supposed to be installed between Crewe and Shrewsbury are replacing MB crossings all worked from a box and they are full barrier and they are all protected by signals however I have done a course on these crossing types and they are not ideal as an obstruction higher than 6 inches will trigger the crossing as obstructed and revert the signal protecting the crossing to danger. There sre 2 sensors in place one is RADAR and the other is LIDOR I think it is called. I think they are just going to cause delays and signal reversions once the idiots get an idea on how they work. The resignalling and introduction of the crossings has been postponed indefinately until the above problem has been assessed.