BBC Documentary 'The Railways'

[ainsworth74]

Well I thoroughly enjoyed it and I'm looking forward to the next one! I didn't think it was particularly anti-union and the 'it's a union requirement to have a break' seems more like a gaff to me than a deliberate attack. Perhaps some people falling foul of confirmation bias? I also thought that the 'David Brent' character was nothing of the sort, a bit keen perhaps but not 'David Brent' like. I will admit the guy that gave that HR lady an earful was priceless and also spot on in his assessment of what passengers want (though a seat would be nice!). He was also brilliant on the barrier (as was that singing lady). Laxman, of course, was the star of the show I mean who else would keep spare interlock light bulbs!? Or have an original HST interlock manual (surely that she be in the NRM or given to Craigentinny TMD if there are only a couple of copies left?). I agree with those who say he should have been allowed to keep most of his stuff.

But to me the most interesting/annoying part was the ticket clerk who told the bloke going to Newcastle that he'd have to pay £301 return. Now the film cut off before we found out what he actually did, but I wonder if the clerk told the passenger that if he didn't need to travel on the next train and waited for the 1819 he'd be able to buy the Super Off-Peak return for £117.20 (returning on trains scheduled to arrive at or after 1117)? Or if he had to travel on the next train that he might as well buy the First Class Off-Peak Return (valid after 0759 on Fridays and returning at any time) for £294? I can't help but feel instead the guy bought the £301 ticket and was left thinking that the railways were a total rip-off and will fly in future.

Though I suppose if he has been told to maximise revenue he did a good job. In which case I'll direct my ire at EC management.

Prices above are for period 2 Jan 2012 - 19 May 2012

 

[IanD]

Nope, its a legal requirement whether you are in a union or not, the unions just make sure management dont put pressure on staff to cut their breaks short.

That's what I said and meant. Despite what other posters have put, Kevin Whately didn't say the union was responsible for the introduction of the breaks but that the union made sure that drivers were able to take their required breaks.

 

[Sheepy1209]

I don't normally post on here but just wanted to say that as a member of the public with a passing railway interest I agree with most of what Ainsworth74 has said.

It didn't come over to me as anti-Union, if anything it showed that unions protect basic rights. What's wrong with having a regular meeting in the pub anyway?

The 'David Brent' character I thought was fine; I'd rather work with him than some of the self-important pillocks I encounter on a daily basis in my job.

I was irritated by the HR woman, but we all have to put up with that crap these days, East Coast isn't unique.

But what really wound me up was the dimwit with the film crew asking inane questions (trains don't run out of petrol dear); the poor old clerk was just trying to have his break and was being battered with daft questions!

All in all not as slick as The Tube but a reasonably honest programme which ended positively; presumably the aim was to contrast the downbeat mood of the old King's Cross with the new one. As I've not been to that station since the late eighties I can't comment!

Roll on next week, let's see what Northern Rail comes up with (I'm already incensed by the programme's description of real ale drinkers).

 

[Aictos]

The older guy on the ticket gates was brilliant. Clearly excellent at his job and a credit to East Coast. The scene where he challenged the customer service "expert" was priceless. This is what the industry needs - experienced, highly motivated people who are not afraid to point out the emperor is wearing no clothes. You have to wonder what sort of organisation would feel the need to send this guy on a customer service course.:roll:

I used to work with Bruce and I agree with your view above, he really is excellent at his job although I don't think he's employed any more by East Coast as I've not seen him for months

This is a pity as East Coast have lost a experienced member of staff who's good and likes their job.

 

[work-traveller]

Well I thoroughly enjoyed it and I'm looking forward to the next one! I didn't think it was particularly anti-union and the 'it's a union requirement to have a break' seems more like a gaff to me than a deliberate attack. Perhaps some people falling foul of confirmation bias? I also thought that the 'David Brent' character was nothing of the sort, a bit keen perhaps but not 'David Brent' like. I will admit the guy that gave that HR lady an earful was priceless and also spot on in his assessment of what passengers want (though a seat would be nice!). He was also brilliant on the barrier (as was that singing lady). Laxman, of course, was the star of the show I mean who else would keep spare interlock light bulbs!? Or have an original HST interlock manual (surely that she be in the NRM or given to Craigentinny TMD if there are only a couple of copies left?). I agree with those who say he should have been allowed to keep most of his stuff.

But to me the most interesting/annoying part was the ticket clerk who told the bloke going to Newcastle that he'd have to pay £301 return. Now the film cut off before we found out what he actually did, but I wonder if the clerk told the passenger that if he didn't need to travel on the next train and waited for the 1819 he'd be able to buy the Super Off-Peak return for £117.20 (returning on trains scheduled to arrive at or after 1117)? Or if he had to travel on the next train that he might as well buy the First Class Off-Peak Return (valid after 0759 on Fridays and returning at any time) for £294? I can't help but feel instead the guy bought the £301 ticket and was left thinking that the railways were a total rip-off and will fly in future.

Though I suppose if he has been told to maximise revenue he did a good job. In which case I'll direct my ire at EC management.

Prices above are for period 2 Jan 2012 - 19 May 2012

Interesting point. I'm undecided if the travel centre adviser was being deliberately unhelpful or following company policy. I say that as I asked the very nice chap at my local station this morning about reducing a train fare by splitting the fare midway, at a place I know to be one of the invisible boundaries around the network. He said he'd look into it and let me know next week, but that staff are told not to volunteer split ticket savings and should be maximising ticket prices. However, another station I pass through regularly has a ticket office chap who volunteers to split passengers (sorry - 'customers') tickets without being asked to. The company approach and the ticket office chap's approach are both legal and legitimate, but I think most people will have a nasty taste left buy one of them!

 

[dave4jackie]

Interesting point. I'm undecided if the travel centre adviser was being deliberately unhelpful or following company policy. I say that as I asked the very nice chap at my local station this morning about reducing a train fare by splitting the fare midway, at a place I know to be one of the invisible boundaries around the network. He said he'd look into it and let me know next week, but that staff are told not to volunteer split ticket savings and should be maximising ticket prices. However, another station I pass through regularly has a ticket office chap who volunteers to split passengers (sorry - 'customers') tickets without being asked to. The company approach and the ticket office chap's approach are both legal and legitimate, but I think most people will have a nasty taste left buy one of them!

the staff member who is telling people to split tickets is not doing his job properly,the passenger has to ask for the split tickets not be told whatto do

 

[work-traveller]

the staff member who is telling people to split tickets is not doing his job properly,the passenger has to ask for the split tickets not be told whatto do

Perhaps I should flesh out my point a little to avoid misunderstanding. The staff member who splits the tickets does so only after explaining what he is doing. Clearly some people will have worked out how to minimise the ticket price for themselves and ask for that specific ticket. In other scenarios however, the ticket could be split without restriction (peak/off-peak/routing etc), so I'm not sure I see that the staff member is not doing his job properly in such a case? The only case I could see would be in a 'duty of care' scenario where the train operator has to get you to your ticket destination. Well if you have an unrestricted split ticket that's just the same duty of care surely.

 

[ryan125hst]

I enjoyed the documentary but thought it could have been better. For example, why did two members of staff read a document to us that was on the wall? It also seemed to portray the railways and East Coast in a bad light and, other than the new concourse, was mostly negative.

I was disapointed with the cleaners view that everyone who travels first class has a cleaner. That is certainly untrue as some first class advance tickets are cheaper than standard class (as a recent thread proved). You would have thought she would know this after over 20 years on the job.

I agree about the ticket office guy being miserable and uninterested in the TV crew. Mind you, most of the footage of him was in the mess room! He is probably a nice guy. Everyone has bad days!

I'm still undecided about the East Coast manager. I watched the program with my Mum and and they thought he might be putting it on for the cameras. We wondered how freindly he really is? That bit about the hotels and how "we will find another hotel for you to work at" certainly raises questions.

As mentioned before, it was Laxman who was the star of the show! He was very enthusiastic about his job. It must have been very difficult for him to leave it. Did he have to give everything back in? Was it company policy or was it his choice? It is sad if he was forced to. Surely quite a few things were out of date now?

I wonder what next week's will be like?

 

[6Gman]

When I left the railway I was determined to take with me most of the stuff I'd gathered over the years (since a lot of it was out of date and therefore of no relevance to current employees). Unfortunately we moved offices while I was off sick and it all went missing (including personal belongings).

 

[A-driver]

Nah that's not true, I'm afraid.

From what I remember of my time at the cross way before the demise of gner is that the cleaners back then were iss too. Had been contracted out for years.

Interesting to note that the black lad who you caught a glimpse of trying to sort out the pax in travel centre at the start of the show started as an agency security guy for NR in there and transferred to gner as he was good at his job so they hired him. Good to see he is still there and still doing a good job.

Well whoevers franchise it was my point is that iss didn't take over to allow tupe. The staff cleaners would have been got rid of but able to join iss (probably encouraged to) and so they could get away without providing any travel facilities.

 

[Butts]

With regard to the cleaner featured....

Where are all these "naughty mags" she finds in East Coast First Class

I'm always in there (without mags ) and have never had the fortune to come across such literature, just discarded copies of the Times and Evening News they supply onboard.

 

[stevefreestone]

I used Kings Cross daily for around 6 years and still use it from time to time now. This documentary, AFAIC, gives a very false image of staff at Kings Cross. They are not as friendly and helpful in the light that this documentary seems to show them in.

I'd go further and suggest that the helpful ones are in the minority.

 

[Searle]

I was disapointed with the cleaners view that everyone who travels first class has a cleaner. That is certainly untrue as some first class advance tickets are cheaper than standard class (as a recent thread proved). You would have thought she would know this after over 20 years on the job.

That was my thought exactly; I've traveled occasionally in first class and I'm a student!

 

[trainophile]

I used Kings Cross daily for around 6 years and still use it from time to time now. This documentary, AFAIC, gives a very false image of staff at Kings Cross. They are not as friendly and helpful in the light that this documentary seems to show them in.

I'd go further and suggest that the helpful ones are in the minority.

I'm not implying anything here, but surely in any customer facing role the member of staff's helpfulness (or otherwise) will reflect the customer's attitude. You'll go the extra mile for someone who appreciates that you are trying to help them but you have constraints that mean they can't always get their own way. However if someone is aggressive or bombastic towards you, you'll feel inclined to do the minimum you are obliged to do.

On both sides of the counter a friendly smile works wonders.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I was disapointed with the cleaners view that everyone who travels first class has a cleaner. That is certainly untrue as some first class advance tickets are cheaper than standard class (as a recent thread proved). You would have thought she would know this after over 20 years on the job.

That's probably why she is still a cleaner.

 

[stevefreestone]

I'm not implying anything here, but surely in any customer facing role the member of staff's helpfulness (or otherwise) will reflect the customer's attitude. You'll go the extra mile for someone who appreciates that you are trying to help them but you have constraints that mean they can't always get their own way. However if someone is aggressive or bombastic towards you, you'll feel inclined to do the minimum you are obliged to do.

On both sides of the counter a friendly smile works wonders.

I knew someone would say this and no I don't find it a sleight.

Heres an example. I went up to the ticket desk, instead of a 'how can I help' it's a 'what?' as soon as I got to one of the desks. That automatically puts the hackles up on me (and probably 99% of people). That is done without any input from me other than obviously bothering this individual and wanting to buy a ticket!

The staff around the new gates seem to be on constant 'sniff out a ticket evader' routines, therefore I have seen them ignore a number of elderly and disabled individuals because simply they seem not to care to help get them out of these bottlenecks (oh, and they could check their tickets too!). Those ticket barriers are a massive bug bear of mine because they are not there for any sort of passenger safety, just for raising money.

Oh and as for my own 'incident' with East Coast at Kings Cross, again, AFAIC they are a disgusting company with a very odd attitude to customer service (more like disservice).

It's worth saying that for 50% of the time I used Kings Cross, I also used Waterloo and never had any of the problems that I had experienced at Kings Cross. Same with a year that I used Liverpool Street. Kings Cross has a very odd attitude that permeates not just the building but the staff as well.

 

[jon0844]

Ticket gates can help safety by keeping undesirables off the railway.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I love that bloke in the Tartan tie's attitude towards that emotive customer service presentation, he said what I was thinking watching it. There seems to be too much focus on emotional connectivity with people instead of being honest and true about the situation.

 

[LE Greys]

I love that bloke in the Tartan tie's attitude towards that emotive customer service presentation, he said what I was thinking watching it. There seems to be too much focus on emotional connectivity with people instead of being honest and true about the situation.

Some people would ask you what the difference was. I wouldn't, though.

 

[Muzer]

I've never experienced East Coast (and the closest I've been to King's Cross is in the tube station when catching a Javelin from St Pancras) - going entirely from this episode alone, I'm not sure I particularly want to - the attitude of the staff certainly seemed somewhat lacking to say the least, and the management seemed to be talking such BS who can blame them? Of course, you can prove all sorts of things through editing, so I am taking it with a pinch of salt. I don't agree that it comes off as anti-union though, it was quite clear IMHO that drivers need the breaks for safety reasons.

In all, though, it seemed significantly more negative than The Tube. Whether this is due to the editing or the source material, who can say, but judging by the rest of the episode titles I'm not sure it'll improve...

 

[RJ]

I enjoyed the documentary but thought it could have been better. For example, why did two members of staff read a document to us that was on the wall? It also seemed to portray the railways and East Coast in a bad light and, other than the new concourse, was mostly negative.

I was disapointed with the cleaners view that everyone who travels first class has a cleaner. That is certainly untrue as some first class advance tickets are cheaper than standard class (as a recent thread proved). You would have thought she would know this after over 20 years on the job.

I agree about the ticket office guy being miserable and uninterested in the TV crew. Mind you, most of the footage of him was in the mess room! He is probably a nice guy. Everyone has bad days!

I'm still undecided about the East Coast manager. I watched the program with my Mum and and they thought he might be putting it on for the cameras. We wondered how freindly he really is? That bit about the hotels and how "we will find another hotel for you to work at" certainly raises questions.

As mentioned before, it was Laxman who was the star of the show! He was very enthusiastic about his job. It must have been very difficult for him to leave it. Did he have to give everything back in? Was it company policy or was it his choice? It is sad if he was forced to. Surely quite a few things were out of date now?

I wonder what next week's will be like?

I've had personal dealings with that manager and can vouch that I genuinely believe he is the salt of the earth. I had reason to complain about a team leader and a travel consultant in the ticket office (who were both caught in the show!) who spent the best part of 40 minutes coming up with rubbish reasons to refuse to sell the ticket what was asking for. The complaint went through the company from the very top downwards and I received a personal phone call from him, stating the incident had been investigated and actually saying "I'm sorry," before confirming that I was right to ask for what I asked for and should have been sold it without any hassle.

Not very many managers will engage with end customers like that and it certainly knocked me for six. The impression given was that the company cared, which is not something all companies will go to the effort of doing.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....I went up to the ticket desk, instead of a 'how can I help' it's a 'what?' as soon as I got to one of the desks. That automatically puts the hackles up on me (and probably 99% of people). That is done without any input from me other than obviously bothering this individual and wanting to buy a ticket!....

It should really be a 'hello' or 'good morning/afternoon/evening', but that may not be vitally important. 'What' isn't particularly good but I think I am right in saying the post you quoted refers to those who receive a 'good morning', or similar, and react as though they had a 'what' instead.

....The staff around the new gates seem to be on constant 'sniff out a ticket evader' routines, therefore I have seen them ignore a number of elderly and disabled individuals because simply they seem not to care to help get them out of these bottlenecks (oh, and they could check their tickets too!). Those ticket barriers are a massive bug bear of mine because they are not there for any sort of passenger safety, just for raising money....

They are there to protect revenue, or put simply, to help make sure you paid for the journey you have just made or are about to make. The only money they raise is that which people should already have paid or that which they will have to pay because they chose not to pay.

 

[Surreyman]

I've had personal dealings with that manager and can vouch that I genuinely believe he is the salt of the earth. I had reason to complain about a team leader and a travel consultant in the ticket office (who were both caught in the show!) who spent the best part of 40 minutes coming up with rubbish reasons to refuse to sell the ticket what was asking for. The complaint went through the company from the very top downwards and I received a personal phone call from him, stating the incident had been investigated and actually saying "I'm sorry," before confirming that I was right to ask for what I asked for and should have been sold it without any hassle.

Not very many managers will engage with end customers like that and it certainly knocked me for six. The impression given was that the company cared, which is not something all companies will go to the effort of doing.

That Manager did a pretty good impression of David Brent from the 'Office'.
If i had been a member of staff in that meeting I would not have been able to take him seriously.

 

[Oswyntail]

.... However if someone is aggressive or bombastic towards you, you'll feel inclined to do the minimum you are obliged to do.

And part of professionalism is not going with your inclination in such circumstances.

....On both sides of the counter a friendly smile works wonders.

Agreed

 

[gazzak]

Watched it on catchup last night, mostly very good.

The East Coast manager came over to me very well. I wish my own Director was a patch on that guy, but no, undermining and intimidation of staff seems to be the norm here. Those of you who think he's David Brent like must have never seen a truly bad manager before. Give the guy a break.

The guy in the ticket office, well what a misery guts. Glass half empty type. Not the sort you'd want to be talking to in an emergency.

The cleaning lady was awful. A great example to kids of what to expect if you don't work hard at school. Truly awful.

Otherwise I thought it was a well made program and I look forward to next weeks episode.

 

[jon0844]

I have to say that the 'David Brent' character didn't do anything wrong, and was perhaps acting for the camera and came over completely wrong. That and having the BBC pick out all the worst bits if they so desired.

Over the years, I've been asked to comment on things relating to mobile technology on TV and radio and always look back and think 'Oh my God, I looked like a t**t'. For some reason, it's very easy to change the way you talk on camera - perhaps because you're trying so hard to look good when in fact the solution is to be totally natural and ignore the camera.

 

[Mainliner]

They are there to protect revenue.

Why are they left open so often, then? The ones near the end of platforms 0-6 at KGX have been open on each of the several occasions I've been there this month.

Or is this something to do with the final works at the front of the station - are these 'old' barriers going to disappear, leaving only those at the entrance from the new concourse?

 

[jon0844]

When I've come in to King's Cross during the day, the gates from the 'departure hall' are usually open too.

I am not sure if they're short of staff or just figure that, in the daytime, relatively few FCC trains stop in the main building and are the only ones that definitely need revenue protection. The other services usually have ticket checks onboard.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Why are they left open so often, then? The ones near the end of platforms 0-6 at KGX have been open on each of the several occasions I've been there this month.

Or is this something to do with the final works at the front of the station - are these 'old' barriers going to disappear, leaving only those at the entrance from the new concourse?

I have no idea, you'll have to ask next time you are there.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I actually thought that the David Brent-style manager came over as a really nice bloke. He seemed to know every member of staff there personally and I'd rather have someone like him as my boss as opposed to some of the more dour characters there are around. The FCC woman in the info point (Alexis?) also came across as a nice person. Laxman looked like a top bloke, you have to go a long way sometimes to find staff that dedicated (him even having an overnight kit if situation ever dictated that he may need to stay and cleaning up after the Kings Cross fire etc). You could tell he loved his job and would go above and beyond at every chance. A credit to himself, East Coast and the rail network generally.