BBC Documentary 'The Railways'

[Westboy]

Enjoyed the old chap on the customer service course telling the young manager stuffed to the gills in BS whats what.

 

[bicbasher]

Those chaps being interviewed by that woman (sorry lost the gist of who she was and what was being interviewed for) seemed far too young for what was presumably a fairly senior position.

From what I could gather, the Merseyside woman is a NR station manager at Kings Cross.

 

[LE Greys]

Loved seeing some of the text on the conflict avoidance posters. Nod and say 'uh-huh' from time to time.

The person asking questions for the film crew seemed incredibly ill informed and some of the staff really did appear to hate their job, and I suspect it shows to the public.

Okay as a programme but seemed to have a bit of an anti rail agenda, or perhaps a political slant. Can't quite put a finger on it, but here's an exciting new station being built and hardly anything showing it off. Even when they did show it, they were quick to say it can't make trains run on time. True, yes, but didn't have to be put like that.

As for the train cleaner... She was really critical of first class passengers and first said she'd never been first class, then never on a long train journey later on. It was if train travel was beyond her means, but surely a cheap advance ticket would be little more than a few packs of the cigarettes she smoked?

She's a funny old stick. I've run into her a couple of times when coming home late at night, and for some reason I like her, but then I've always liked these slightly eccentric characters.

I agree with you about the political agenda, though. Mind you, I wish they'd mentioned how they've tried to go too upmarket with the catering, leaving most people with minimal options. I also notice they ignored the fact that the worst part of the station was in fact a 1970s addition, instead blaming the Victorians.

However, when a train runs on time, it isn't news. It is news when it crashes or runs very late, although I have to say they coped very well when I was stuck north of Northallerton for three hours once (although they didn't say exactly what was wrong, I found myself explaining to annoyed fellow passengers about cable theft). There are plenty of decent people there and they do try their best, I just wish the programme had emphasised it more.
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Enjoyed the old chap on the customer service course telling the young manager stuffed to the gills in BS whats what.

He's another one I've recognised, and quite a character as well. Good for him!

 

[Monty]

I missed it unfortunately, and it appears the BBC won't be uploading it to iPlayer until the programme has been repeated on Thursday evening. It's a shame hearing from other forum users that it's a bit of a let down. I'll just have to try and watch it with an open mind when I do finally get to see it. I did watch a clip on the progamme's website however and the bit about PNBs and 'Union Regulations' really made me :roll:

 

[notadriver]

Load of rubbish-I was pretty disappointed with the factual inaccuracies in this and the sort of anti union vibe.

Drivers salaries start at 50k? Sadly not-I am at one if the better paid TOCs and we don't get that much! And breaks between journies? I think not! We are legally obliged to take 1x30 min break or 2x 20 mins in a 10 hour shift and many if our jobs only give us that bare minimum.

Wish they would get their facts right here!

I think East Coast drivers start at better than 50k and I'm guessing having done 3 hours driving they need a decent break before they do another 3 hours of high speed driving. They are truely amongst the elite of the railway.

 

[455driver]

However my highlight was the pointless "customer service" course where an experienced worker told the trainer what the travelling public should get for their money.

Agreed, she couldnt answer him at all, unfortunately this is typical of the new "fluffy" railway concentrating on all the "little things" (plant pot FFS :roll when there are some much bigger things that need sorting out first!

Laxman and the FCC lady were excellent, both the ops managers need a good kicking especially that kid taking laxmans possessions, he should have just kept the lot as a memento of his time on the railways.

If that is going to be the level of journalism then it is just another "lets make the railways,especially drivers (union meeting in the pub, driver strolling down to the train after his "union required" PNB etc) look bad" pathetic program.
Lets see what next week brings.

 

[Manchester77]

When's it going onto the iPlayer?

 

[YorkshireBear]

If they had come out and said lots of good things about railways straight off i doubt it would have got the views from the public as they would have thought, 'this is clearly lies its for anoraks'. Never know they might try and mould the view over the next few episodes.

 

[455driver]

I think East Coast drivers start at better than 50k and I'm guessing having done 3 hours driving they need a decent break before they do another 3 hours of high speed driving. They are truly amongst the elite of the railway.

Try a 9.5* hour, 106* stop, 44 minute (including the 10 minute walk time so effectively 34 minute) PNB shift.
Cruising along at line speed is not so intensive although it does require slightly different "skills" to suburban stuff. (Before the glory boys throw their teddies out).

Personally I prefer high speed, limited stop driving, as I find it easier/ less stressful than stopping services.

* I know there are a lot of companies with longer shifts and many more stops than that!

To get anywhere near £50k I would need to work a hell of a lot of rest days.

 

[Chris125]

If they had come out and said lots of good things about railways straight off i doubt it would have got the views from the public as they would have thought, 'this is clearly lies its for anoraks'. Never know they might try and mould the view over the next few episodes.

The Tube was very pro-TfL but went down much better with ordinary people than this has going by other forums and twitter, it was just a bit too depressing and negative really.

CHris

 

[bicbasher]

I missed it unfortunately, and it appears the BBC won't be uploading it to iPlayer until the programme has been repeated on Thursday evening.

The BBC have finally uploaded it to iPlayer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01qqzb6/The_Railway_Keeping_Britain_on_Track_Kings_Cross/

 

[phil8715]

I've actually worked briefly at London King's Cross. Laxman was one of my managers and I've never met a more friendly welcoming person. He took me under his wing. I also knew Veronica the cleaner she's the most down go earth person you could ever wish to meet.

Laxman said to me the day I left give us a ring and you can work for us again.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[jon0844]

Seems like the BBC should have filmed some members on here!

 

[notadriver]

Try a 9.5* hour, 106* stop, 44 minute (including the 10 minute walk time so effectively 34 minute) PNB shift.
Cruising along at line speed is not so intensive although it does require slightly different "skills" to suburban stuff. (Before the glory boys throw their teddies out).

Personally I prefer high speed, limited stop driving, as I find it easier/ less stressful than stopping services.

* I know there are a lot of companies with longer shifts and many more stops than that!

To get anywhere near £50k I would need to work a hell of a lot of rest days.

Isn't it a bit like the difference between driving a bus and driving a coach. The bus can be really repetitive and mind numbingly boring as you are constantly starting and stopping but yet as you say high speed driving demands a different kind of alertness and you very few chances to switch off. And unlike a coach the speedo won't suddenly stop climbing at 62 mph. It's a wonder how coaches get anywhere in a decent amount of time limited to that speed and banned from lane 3 of motorways.

PS I can think of a TOC many of your colleagues have flocked to who pay 50k without overtime.

 

[BrownE]

I think East Coast drivers start at better than 50k and I'm guessing having done 3 hours driving they need a decent break before they do another 3 hours of high speed driving. They are truely amongst the elite of the railway.

This ASLEF document says pay is £50,815.

 

[Tiny Tim]

Seems like the BBC should have filmed some members on here!

Maybe they did!

 

[notadriver]

That was before the pay rise they got in 2012.

 

[RPM]

Just watched it on Iplayer. A very mixed bag; sometimes honest and realistic, other bits were distorted and exaggerated. Overall a bit toe-curling. Drivers were cast in a slightly negative light but no surprises there. If it wasn't for those pesky unions drivers could work without breaks and everyone would be so much safer...
The "David Brent" character, rightly or wrongly came over as a total cock, but to be fair it is all in the edit. Similarly the ticket clerk bloke didn't give a very good impression either.
Too much focus on times of disruption and not enough on normal day to day smooth running.
The older guy on the ticket gates was brilliant. Clearly excellent at his job and a credit to East Coast. The scene where he challenged the customer service "expert" was priceless. This is what the industry needs - experienced, highly motivated people who are not afraid to point out the emperor is wearing no clothes. You have to wonder what sort of organisation would feel the need to send this guy on a customer service course.:roll:

 

[sidmouth]

Why all this issue about how much drivers earn or not? if one thinks someone else in a job earns too much then this is a free society and one can equally apply for that job (ok but at the bottom rung as per all jobs); likewise if you think yourself earn too little then get a job somewhere else.

The salary for a job is based purely (since Thatcher's time) on supply and demand. So...so what if a driver earns 50k, but equally so what if they only £20k.

 

[EM2]

Those chaps being interviewed by that woman (sorry lost the gist of who she was and what was being interviewed for) seemed far too young for what was presumably a fairly senior position.

She's the Station Manager and they were being interviewed for a secondment as a Station Controller. I know this as the two in uniform are colleagues of mine.

 

[Smethwickian]

I thought the programme was a bit patchy and disjointed - a seemingly random collection of clips without any strong 'day in the life of'-type narrative, which could still have been told, warts and all, without just being a PR exercise for the railways.

I agree that the ops manager was disrespectful to Laxman. Couldn't wait to get him out of the door fast enough. He obviously sees him as having an old view of the Railway, and not his spreadsheets and targets that he believes runs s railway. He looked about 18.

As for the other manager, the David Brent type, what a pillock.

Those, and the 'customer service course' where some management type (probably more accustomed to working in supermarket human resources or some such nonsense) stood in front of a flipchart waffling on about mission statements or whatever, really irritated me.

Want someone to show what real dedication to railway passengers is? Laxman's the man.

Make management types sit and watch the bit where he explains why he kept a toothbrush and razor in his locker just in case he had to stay overnight. And why he wouldn't leave Kings Cross on the night of the 1987 fire until the last body had been taken away.......




Gulp.

 

[SussexMan]

The salary for a job is based purely (since Thatcher's time) on supply and demand. So...so what if a driver earns 50k, but equally so what if they only £20k.

Is that correct? Supply is low (not many people wanting to be train drivers) and demand is high (lots of drivers needed due to growth /leavers/turnover). I would have thought it was the other way round.

 

[OuterDistant]

Good grief, the customer service stuff had even the missus literally shouting at the screen. What a load of old toss.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Is that correct? Supply is low (not many people wanting to be train drivers) and demand is high (lots of drivers needed due to growth /leavers/turnover). I would have thought it was the other way round.

I think your presumption there is so wrong that light bends around it!
Just this week it was reported that there were 2229 applicants for 18 drivers jobs with Scotrail. (link)

Supply is low for drivers because it takes so long to train one up to a productive standard. From walking in on day one to driving your first train on your own has to be well over a thousand hours.

 

[83G/84D]

Why all this issue about how much drivers earn or not? if one thinks someone else in a job earns too much then this is a free society and one can equally apply for that job (ok but at the bottom rung as per all jobs); likewise if you think yourself earn too little then get a job somewhere else.

The salary for a job is based purely (since Thatcher's time) on supply and demand. So...so what if a driver earns 50k, but equally so what if they only £20k.

Well said.

 

[A-driver]

I think East Coast drivers start at better than 50k and I'm guessing having done 3 hours driving they need a decent break before they do another 3 hours of high speed driving. They are truely amongst the elite of the railway.

They do earn 50k (although that includes Sunday) but that wasn't east coast they were talking about. They seemed to imply drivers in general and that was the kings x aslef branch meeting they showed-they the driver they interviewed was FCC (there were east coast drivers there to).

FCC don't get a break after each trip and we don't have a 50k salary! Also, east coast arnt as simple as a break after each trip. It's also not a union rule like they said either!

 

[YorkshireBear]

Those, and the 'customer service course' where some management type (probably more accustomed to working in supermarket human resources or some such nonsense) stood in front of a flipchart waffling on about mission statements or whatever, really irritated me.

Want someone to show what real dedication to railway passengers is? Laxman's the man.

Make management types sit and watch the bit where he explains why he kept a toothbrush and razor in his locker just in case he had to stay overnight. And why he wouldn't leave Kings Cross on the night of the 1987 fire until the last body had been taken away.......



Gulp.

Very much agree with that. When he was showing his stuff at the end i felt quite emotional. That he also stayed during the bombings and cleared the blood off the platforms etc.
What a guy, then he retired and now volunteers helping older people not as mobile. If everyone was like him, the world would be a better place on every level.
If there ever was a heaven he deserves to be sat at the top of it.
The little scrote at the end who wouldnt listen to him, well i hope he has a long unsuccesful career. Even if you have no interest if someone else does and cares as much as he does you show the respect it rightly deserves.

 

[Mainliner]

both the ops managers need a good kicking especially that kid taking laxmans possessions, he should have just kept the lot as a memento of his time on the railways.

Indeed, especially as they didn't even know he had some of the stuff. Totally disrespectful to a distinguished employee - as was the station manager, taking a swig from a cardboard drink carton immediately after asking the interviewee a question. Classy.

 

[Oswyntail]

.... You have to wonder what sort of organisation would feel the need to send this guy on a customer service course.:roll:

Well, as has been said, it is all in the edit, and it is conceivable that the contents of the course were edited to make it look vacuous. And you send guys like him on courses because a) he might learn something useful by being exposed to different viewpoints and b) having a mix of experiences and viewpoints is how good courses work for everyone. Or do we want an industry staffed by inflexible people who know it all because they have been doing it the same way for ten years and no one who hasn't done it cannot tell them anything about their job?

 

[jon0844]

While there would have been a lot of very selective editing (for all we know, many people involved - including passengers being filmed - were quite positive about the railway), some of the staff personalities were very clear and couldn't be misrepresented from editing alone.

From the arrogant to totally disinterested, it's such a shame that these people are working on the railway and doing very little to boost its reputation (more the opposite).