Bavaria queries

[northwichcat]

I've seen posted on a Trip Advisor guide that the Munich-Fussen trains can get very crowded. Does anyone know if that will likely apply in the w/c 22nd April and if so which times and days would be worst?

Also slightly related does the Bayern ticket include travel on the Fussen to Hohenschwangau buses?

 

[30907]

Not familiar with Bavarian train loadings, but my guess is that it's particularly bad at weekends in the ski and high summer seasons, and Friday evenings generally.

There is a list here of routes that are NOT covered, and I can't see anything re Fuessen. The bus times appear with fares on www.bahn.de, which is hopeful!
http://www.bahn.de/regional/view/mdb/pv/deutschland_erleben/bayern/regionales/bayern-ticket/bayern-ticket_2012/mdb_90361_bt_buslinien_negativ_aug_2012.pdf

 

[mancnq]

The Bayern Ticket is valid on the local buses from Füssen. They are operated by a Deutsche Bahn subsidiary, so definitely accept the tickets. Be aware though that the evening bus service is run by taxis (marked AST in the timetable) that you have to book in advance and pay extra for. A timetable can be downloaded from here: http://www.rvo-bus.de/rvo-de/start/...0&start=0&itemsPerPage=20&c3191568=Füssen&x=1

The English language page for the Bayern Ticket is here: http://www.bahn.com/i/view/GBR/en/prices/germany/laender-ticket.shtml

The full T&Cs are only available in German, but I've checked and the Bayern Ticket is still recognised on route 78 between Füssen Rail Station, Hohen Schwangau and the Tegelbergbahn base station.

Be warned though that the national Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket (One day ticket valid at weekends on all regional trains and some local transport systems in Germany) is not valid on Füssen's buses. If only travelling from Munich, the Bayern Ticket is cheaper anyway.

 

[Greenback]

I wonder if the writers idea of very crowded is the same as our idea of very crowded in the UK? I've been on some busy continental trains but I've never ever seen people standing in the carraige aisles between seats like I have in this country!

 

[northwichcat]

The bus times appear with fares on www.bahn.de, which is hopeful!
http://www.bahn.de/regional/view/mdb/pv/deutschland_erleben/bayern/regionales/bayern-ticket/bayern-ticket_2012/mdb_90361_bt_buslinien_negativ_aug_2012.pdf

That's useful thanks. I'd found the bus times on unofficial sites but didn't think to check bahn.de as I associate that site with train times not bus times.

I wonder if the writers idea of very crowded is the same as our idea of very crowded in the UK? I've been on some busy continental trains but I've never ever seen people standing in the carraige aisles between seats like I have in this country!

There are a couple of occasions where I've been on really packed services in Europe.

One was where in Paris and I was trying to get between Gare Du Nord and Charles de Gaulle Airport on the RER leaving at around 08:45. The train was heaving for the first couple of stops but by the time it got to the Airport the train was 3/4s empty.

The other was getting between Barcelona Airport and Barcelona Sants. Although, there were engineering works meaning there was no through service and the Airport trains were running as shuttles to El Prat instead of to Barcelona and you had to pick up another train from there, so there were probably two train loads of passengers on the trains that were running between El Prat and Barcelona.

 

[Greenback]

There are a couple of occasions where I've been on really packed services in Europe.

One was where in Paris and I was trying to get between Gare Du Nord and Charles de Gaulle Airport on the RER leaving at around 08:45. The train was heaving for the first couple of stops but by the time it got to the Airport the train was 3/4s empty.

I haven't used that service. But I do remember a busy train in the South of France. This was because of a cruise ship in Villefranche, and there were three or four people standing in the vestibule on the train from nice to Ventimille. Like your experience, though, the trainw as pretty empty for most of the route, as almost all the cruisers alighted at Monte Carlo!

It still didn't come anywhere near what I've seen on Southampton - Bristol or Shrewsbury - Manchester though!

The other was getting between Barcelona Airport and Barcelona Sants. Although, there were engineering works meaning there was no through service and the Airport trains were running as shuttles to El Prat instead of to Barcelona and you had to pick up another train from there, so there were probably two train loads of passengers on the trains that were running between El Prat and Barcelona.

I have done that one, albeit not at a time when engineering works were disrupting things! Arrive din the evening at about 1830, got stuck in the barriers at the airport station, and found the train to the cnetre busy but with plenty of room.

I think that the larger loading gauge certainly helps to reduce the sense of overcrowding compared to the UK, as the traisn in Europe seem to be far more spacious even when they are pretty full.

On the way back it was mid morning, and the airport train was pretty quiet. Less busy, I thought, than in the other direction, but perhaps not surpising given the time of day.

But back to your original question. I have no experience of this line or the trains on it, but I imagine it is regional type service? If so, then I'd be prepared to wait for the next train if the one I intended to catch seemed really busy. If that is possible, of course.

 

[northwichcat]

But back to your original question. I have no experience of this line or the trains on it, but I imagine it is regional type service? If so, then I'd be prepared to wait for the next train if the one I intended to catch seemed really busy. If that is possible, of course.

Yes it's a DB Regio service. The trains aren't that frequent though - there's a 2 hourly Munich-Fussen service which interworks with a 2 hourly Augsburg-Fussen service (there are connections available for Munich to/from the Augsburg services.)

 

[Greenback]

Yes it's a DB Regio service. The trains aren't that frequent though - there's a 2 hourly Munich-Fussen service which interworks with a 2 hourly Augsburg-Fussen service (there are connections available for Munich to/from the Augsburg services.)

That's a tricky one. I don't know whether I'd be prepared to wait an hour or not, it would probably depend on the circumstances - how tired I am, what time I would expect to get to my destination and so on.

 

[30907]

I'd found the bus times on unofficial sites but didn't think to check bahn.de as I associate that site with train times not bus times

There's not much you can't find on bahn.de
- though it's not always up-to-date with other operators' temporary timetables

Worth noting generally that Laendertickets are increasingly valid on all public transport, either Land-wide or where there's a Verkehrsverbund (like a PTA). The big exceptions are Mecklenburg-Vorpommern and Schleswig-Holstein, though S-H has its own day ticket.

Anyway, enjoy - I shall be doing Muenchen-Mittenwald-Innsbruck the previous week but probably won't be able to post in time

 

[Zamracene749]

Done this run a couple of times, once direct and once changing at Buchloe (its cross platform).

Weekend in high summer, i'd guess that the trains were about 80% loaded. The direct train was busier than using the connection, perhaps most of the tourists from Munich for the castle were reluctant to change?

A bit of advice I can give is to try and get a seat right at the front of the train, that way at Fussen you will be one of the first onto the bus which most definately WAS crowded.

PS the parallel departure from Buchloe with two 218 hauled services is quite a cool experience, worth opening the window and getting the camcorder ready for

HTH

 

[gordonthemoron]

I'd recommend stopping off in Kaufbeuren on the way back to visit McCallion's irish pub which is cheap and does excellent food

 

[northwichcat]

A bit of advice I can give is to try and get a seat right at the front of the train, that way at Fussen you will be one of the first onto the bus which most definately WAS crowded.

I'm planning on spending a bit of time looking around Fussen rather than just interchanging there, so maybe I should do that first and get a bus that's not less than 10 minutes after a train arrival?

 

[khib70]

I'm planning on spending a bit of time looking around Fussen rather than just interchanging there, so maybe I should do that first and get a bus that's not less than 10 minutes after a train arrival?

Worth doing. It's an a attractive town with some good shops/eateries. Spent an hour or so there after deciding to wait for the direct train to Munich. The above advice about the bus is good. It gets very crowded in both directions.

As for the trains, we came down via the change at Buchloe, and back direct. All the trains were busy but we had no problem getting a seat. The "Talent" units used between Buchloe and Fuessen have huge windows which allow a great view of the beautiful countryside en route.

 

[gordonthemoron]

BTW, there's another station south of Fussen at Uhlrichsbrucke-Fussen in Austria. Looks about 3 miles from Fussen. Trains from there go to Kempten in one direction and Reutte in Tirol in the opposite, you can change at Reutte for Garmisch. The Bayern Ticket is not valid from intermediate stations in Austria (i.e. not from Uhlrichsbrucke-Fussen) but is valid from Reutte to stations inside Germany.

 

[30907]

BTW, there's another station south of Fussen at Uhlrichsbrucke-Fussen in Austria. The Bayern Ticket is not valid from intermediate stations in Austria (i.e. not from Uhlrichsbrucke-Fussen) but is valid from Reutte to stations inside Germany.

The restriction states
Pfronten-Steinach – Vils – Reutte (Tirol) – Ehrwald – Griesen
(„Außerfernbahn“),
nur im Verkehr von und nach Deutschland, nicht im innerösterreichischen Binnenverkehr
only for journeys from and to Germany but not for internal journeys within Austria.

I think this means it's perfectly valid from U-Fuessen so long as you don't leave the train within Austria. The section via Reutte towards Garmisch is beautiful, so coming back that way is well worth considering - though I wouldn't know without checking www.bahn.de whether there's a bus...

 

[northwichcat]

Worth doing. It's an a attractive town with some good shops/eateries. Spent an hour or so there after deciding to wait for the direct train to Munich. The above advice about the bus is good. It gets very crowded in both directions.

Is there anywhere in Fussen itself where you can get good views of the nearby lakes, mountains and castles?

 

[steevp]

Boat trip on the Forggensee is a good idea. Although it is manmade, you get some good views, but it is a trot out of town (15-20 mins. ) and only runs in the summer

 

[khib70]

Is there anywhere in Fussen itself where you can get good views of the nearby lakes, mountains and castles?

Several lakes in the area. The large Foggensee is within walking distance of the town centre.

The village of Hohenschwangau, where the bus from the station takes you, is on the smaller, but extremely beautiful Alpsee, which can be walked around in an hour. From its shores there are fine views of both the castles and the mountains.

 

[Zamracene749]

Hi, further to my earlier post regarding Buchloe, found this whilst browsing to give you an idea what to expect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVi4wzaj6io

Diesel Hydraulic heaven

 

[317666]

Hi, further to my earlier post regarding Buchloe, found this whilst browsing to give you an idea what to expect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVi4wzaj6io

Diesel Hydraulic heaven

Bear in mind that video was filmed in 2010. I believe some of the lines round there have since lost their 218s completely, being replaced by DMUs, while others have lost their 'Silberlingen' drop-down coaches in favour of air conditioned coaches.

That said, you can find (2011-dated) diagrams for them here:

http://www.v160.info/index.php/baureihe-218-fahrzeugeinsatz

I hope they're still up-to-date as I'm hoping to get some 218s when I'm in that area later this year, not been on one since 2008!

 

[Zamracene749]

I've had a look at the up to date Bavarian diagrams on another group, they look broadly similar apart from some of the Oberstdorf turns disappearing, those few that remain look to be IC from Ulm.
I last visited in 2011, the Kempten regional turns were all still silberling stock, Muhldorf DD aircon and the Ulm to Lindau turns a mix of both.
I believe new locos and stock are expected later this year?

HTIOU

 

[317666]

The first of the new BR245 locos (which are eventually intended to replace all the 218s everywhere unfortunately) are expected later this year, but it'll take a fair amount of time for them to all enter service.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I'm presuming that the BR245 has a fairly low top speed, perhaps only 100km/h?

 

[D6700]

Is there anywhere in Fussen itself where you can get good views of the nearby lakes, mountains and castles?

I spent a couple of hours in Fussen last March. Originally, I'd planned on a fast turnaround on the same 218 I'd arrived on from Munich, but when I saw the view of the mountains from the train whilst approaching the town, I realised that I should spend some time there. I quickly found that I could get another 218 two hours later and still have time to comfortably get to the airport (the key consideration!)

I didn't have a map, but took a walk towards the impressive snowy mountains, which also provided a view of Neuschwanstein Castle, although half of that was covered over for renovation work.

If you look at Google Maps, the route I took from the station was to follow the main road (Route 16) East-South-East, alongside the playing fields down to the river. There is a footpath/cyclepath alongside the river and I crossed the river by way of the hydro-electric dam North East of the road bridge. I followed the path "Forchenweg" part way and then passed "Bauernhof Beim Landhannes" before crossing Route 17 onto "Kienbergweg". I then wandered in the North East direction along "Truchsessweg", taking in the view.

I took many pictures along this walk, before heading back into town, where I took a wander down the lovely pedestrianised "Reichenstrasse" (off the main road, just before the roundabout).

As I mentioned, I was only there for two hours, so with more time, you could fit a lot more in.

 

[northwichcat]

The English language page for the Bayern Ticket is here: http://www.bahn.com/i/view/GBR/en/prices/germany/laender-ticket.shtml

My understanding of this is that the validity includes local S-Bahn, U-Bahn and trams in cities such as Munich and Augsburg. Is that correct?

 

[30907]

Yes - the areas are listed on pages 2-3. In each case it says all routes, all forms of public transport. This is in addition to "nearly all bus services in Bavaria" on the terms and conditions page

http://www.bahn.de/regional/view/md...mdb_97987_bay_ticket_geltbereich_ab091212.pdf

 

[khib70]

My understanding of this is that the validity includes local S-Bahn, U-Bahn and trams in cities such as Munich and Augsburg. Is that correct?

Yes. All forms of local transport are covered except a few rural bus routes, which are listed somewhere! The important exceptions are ICE, IC and EC trains. Even just for the return trip to Fuessen/Neuschwanstein or a day in Salzburg, it's a no-brainer. Salzburg is well worth a day out, as both the city and the journey are pretty eyecatching.

We also did a trip to Prien am Chiemsee ( on the Salzburg line) where the station is connected by a narrow guage line to the pier on the lake, from where you can take a boat trip ( not included in the Bayerbn Ticket!) around the lake and visit various islands, one of which contains an elegant royal palace. Again, the views are breathtaking.

And the ticket came in handy for a visit to the beautiful city of Regensburg on the Danube, which also has boat trips up the said river, and the alleged world's oldest restaurant. This is a bratwurst restaurant by the historic stone bridge, opened in the 12th Century and selling bratwurst to die for!

 

[northwichcat]

Yes. All forms of local transport are covered except a few rural bus routes, which are listed somewhere! The important exceptions are ICE, IC and EC trains. Even just for the return trip to Fuessen/Neuschwanstein or a day in Salzburg, it's a no-brainer. Salzburg is well worth a day out, as both the city and the journey are pretty eyecatching.

We also did a trip to Prien am Chiemsee ( on the Salzburg line) where the station is connected by a narrow guage line to the pier on the lake, from where you can take a boat trip ( not included in the Bayerbn Ticket!) around the lake and visit various islands, one of which contains an elegant royal palace. Again, the views are breathtaking.

And the ticket came in handy for a visit to the beautiful city of Regensburg on the Danube, which also has boat trips up the said river, and the alleged world's oldest restaurant. This is a bratwurst restaurant by the historic stone bridge, opened in the 12th Century and selling bratwurst to die for!

At the moment after allowing time to see Munich itself I should have 2 full days to do other things. I'm thinking at the moment 2 out of:
* Fuessen/Neuschwanstein
* Augsburg/Donauworth
* Salzburg

What's the train ride like between Munich and Salzburg?

 

[gordonthemoron]

What's the train ride like between Munich and Salzburg?

Not very fast although pretty scenic as you get quite close to the foothills of the alps. You can't see that much of Chiemsee from the train.