Battery Electric power and Hydrogen

[James Kevill]

Which do you think is the better environment for the locomotives and rolling stocks, Battery Electric or Hydrogen? Because the Diesel reactions will come to an end in 2040.

 

[HSTEd]

It is highly unlikely that hydrogen can meaningfully decarbonise rail transport, the amount of electrolysis requires is rather large and facilities for handling the gas are expensive and prone to leakage losses.

I'm afraid the answer is electrification of one form or another and the sooner the Government abandons its Thatcherite obsession with avoiding state capital expenditure the better.

It is more likely the 2040 requirement will be quietly dropped

 

[xotGD]

It is highly unlikely that hydrogen can meaningfully decarbonise rail transport, the amount of electrolysis requires is rather large and facilities for handling the gas are expensive and prone to leakage losses.

I'm afraid the answer is electrification of one form or another and the sooner the Government abandons its Thatcherite obsession with avoiding state capital expenditure the better.

It is more likely the 2040 requirement will be quietly dropped

Totally disagree. Hydrogen is the answer for lines that will never be electrified.

Electolysis gives the option of producing fuel locally in the depot. Alternatively, larger centralised facilities can also employ gasification or steam methane reforming (with carbon capture).

Hydrogen will give much better range than batteries too.

 

[HSTEd]

Totally disagree. Hydrogen is the answer for lines that will never be electrified.

Given current growth rates in passenger numbers, there are very few lines that will not satisfy electrification under reasonable economic criteria, especially once NR stops overspeccing every electrification project.

Electolysis gives the option of producing fuel locally in the depot.

That avoids some gas handling issues but also means that all depots will require massive electrical supplies, which creates its own host of issues.

Alternatively, larger centralised facilities can also employ gasification or steam methane reforming (with carbon capture).

Carbon Capture is unfortunately vapourware in any industrial sense.

 

[Struner]

Indeed, batteries are a non-starter, unless they can be topped up on the way, as in Stadler’s proposed WINK.
But for the FNL it will be hydrogen, diesel, closure, electrification - in that order.

 

[xotGD]

Carbon Capture is unfortunately vapourware in any industrial sense.

Carbon capture will be an essential technology in achieving Net Zero. Hydrogen production facilities can be located in CCS clusters to share the transport and storage infrastructure.

 

[HSTEd]

Carbon capture will be an essential technology in achieving Net Zero. Hydrogen production facilities can be located in CCS clusters to share the transport and storage infrastructure.

Unfortunately as a climate scientist that spends my time surrounded by climate scientists..... we have no confidence that CCS is ever going to arrive at anything like the required scale.

 

[xotGD]

Unfortunately as a climate scientist that spends my time surrounded by climate scientists..... we have no confidence that CCS is ever going to arrive at anything like the required scale.

It requires government commitment and cash. The technology is ready to be implemented.

I know that there have been several false starts, but I get the impression that now the government has real commitment to CCS as a key part of Net Zero. I may be over optimistic; we'll see.

This is my day job too, btw.