Bath to Darlington 1850

[edmd1905]

Hello, I am new to this. I am trying to trace my g-g-g grandfather's journey from the Mendips to the Durham coalfield in c. 1850. How would it be possible by train, probably 3rd class. What sort of engine would have been in operation then? Thanks

 

[Gloster]

The most likely route would be to Bristol and then by the Midland Railway to Birmingham, Derby, Sheffield and Normanton to York, then the York, Newcastle & Berwick Railway to whichever station was nearest his destination and then probably walk. He might have got a Great Western Railway train from Bath to Bristol and changed or walked to there or somewhere on the Midland like Mangotsfield. An alternative, but less likely one, is by broad gauge Great Western train to London, then on the London & North Western Railway to Rugby and then on the Midland via Leicester and Derby. The railway network was changing rapidly at this period and only a year or two’s difference could make quite a difference.

 

[30907]

The most likely route would be to Bristol and then by the Midland Railway to Birmingham, Derby, Sheffield and Normanton to York, then the York, Newcastle & Berwick Railway to whichever station was nearest his destination and then probably walk.

On that basis, the timetableworld.com site has an 1847 Bradshaw which would be worth a look:
https://timetableworld.com/ttw-viewer.php?token=bbd7df38-5dc7-4a21-9ef3-5165956a1705

 

[Dr Hoo]

Hello, I am new to this. I am trying to trace my g-g-g grandfather's journey from the Mendips to the Durham coalfield in c. 1850. How would it be possible by train, probably 3rd class. What sort of engine would have been in operation then? Thanks

This is a very interesting challenge. In 1850, prior to the Great Exhibition in 1851, hardly any ‘ordinary’ people would have made such an epic journey by rail. There were no official network maps back then although there were maps in the commercial Bradshaw timetable. The Railway Clearing House had been established to facilitate through journeys and tickets but the Great Western and many other companies were not members by 1850.
I do have a March 1850 Bradshaw and will try and figure out a plausible journey. A lot of lines only had one ‘parliamentary’ train per day to convey 3rd class passengers, in open trucks, so such a long trip may well stretch over several days. The cost could easily be a few weeks’ wages and thus unaffordable other than in the most pressing circumstances unless someone else was paying the fares and accommodation.
Leave it with me for a few days…

 

[Gloster]

If he was travelling to a job in the Durham Coalfield, could he have been ‘sponsored’ by someone, or their agent, who recruited him? In that case the person recruiting him would probably provide a ticket and tell him what train to catch and, possibly, give him some instructions. After all, if they are paying for him they don’t want their investment getting lost en route.

 

[WesternLancer]

I do have a March 1850 Bradshaw and will try and figure out a plausible journey. A lot of lines only had one ‘parliamentary’ train per day to convey 3rd class passengers, in open trucks, so such a long trip may well stretch over several days. The cost could easily be a few weeks’ wages and thus unaffordable other than in the most pressing circumstances unless someone else was paying the fares and accommodation.
Leave it with me for a few days…

This is a good point - yet we know that many people did migrate distances esp for work - and sometimes very long ones like this example (and often longer and to other continents by ship obviously but then must have moved about inland to find work) how did they all tend to get about?
Walking over periods of time from job to job maybe?
I doubt for working people stagecoaches were an option?
Coastal shipping?
Would it have been possible to cadge lifts on canal boats working boats - or walk tow paths?

I whole load of things I'd not really thought about!

So thanks to @edmd1905 for posting an interesting question.

 

[The exile]

This is a good point - yet we know that many people did migrate distances esp for work - and sometimes very long ones like this example (and often longer and to other continents by ship obviously but then must have moved about inland to find work) how did they all tend to get about?
Walking over periods of time from job to job maybe?
I doubt for working people stagecoaches were an option?
Coastal shipping?
Would it have been possible to cadge lifts on canal boats working boats - or walk tow paths?

I whole load of things I'd not really thought about!

So thanks to @edmd1905 for posting an interesting question.

Walk, cadge a lift with carters. Doubt whether canal-boat operators would take on casual help in return for passage - the economics of long-haul trade would have been getting very dodgy by then with families already living aboard.

 

[norbitonflyer]

There were "fly boats" on the canals which took paying passengers, but by 1850 trains were faster.
Certainly people did travel for work - OS Nocks account of the Sonning disaster early on Christmas Eve 1841, caused by a collapse of the cutting side, mentions that many of the victims were builders and craftsmen who had been working on the new Houses of Parliament and were going home for a Christmas break.
One of the outcomes of tat accident was an end to the practice, on the Gwr at least, of conveying 3rd class passengers and goods in the same train (and more or less identical wagons)

 

[Gloster]

Canals aren’t a reasonable option as it would be a seriously disjointed and long drawn-out journey which would probably be beyond the capabilities of the OP’s ancestor to plan and undertake. It would also have the disadvantage that the canal network faded out once you passed the Humber. It might be possible to use coastal shipping, but it would probably be necessary to get to London and then pay for passage on a coastal vessel or on a collier returning to Durham. At least the railways had the advantage that you could get some idea of how to get to your destination before you started.

 

[The exile]

There were "fly boats" on the canals which took paying passengers, but by 1850 trains were faster.

And, as Inspector Morse found out, the railways weren’t that much more expensive either (especially given the time saved).

 

[mike57]

Interesting question.

Walking, its over 250 miles, so assuming 25 miles per day thats 10 to 11 days. But how would our traveller find his way. I doubt that maps were generally available. And then camping or staying in inns or boarding houses, food etc. The cost is going to be more than rail fare. Given the inland locations coastal shipping is unlikely.

So railway travel would likely work out cheapest. Which mean unless there is strong evidence of another form of transport rail would be most likely. I assume that initial hiring would be arranged by letter, as the penny post was in existance by this time.

So what caused him to embark on the journey, how did he find out about the work? Newspaper advert? So maybe some research into the newspaper archives of the period, did they advertise for for workers where he ended up. Maybe the advert would hold some clues, as they may be offering rail travel as part of what today would be called a relocation package. Did he have relatives already in the area

Can you find out if anyone else made the same or similar journey around this time, that might give some clues as to how your ancestor made the journey. Its going to be a lot of circumstancial evidence I suggest unless you by some bit of luck find a paper trail in some archives somewhere.

 

[Gloster]

I have read of agents, either acting for an employer or on spec, travelling to areas where the local industry was in trouble in order to recruit men to work in the same or similar jobs in other areas. In this case it might be that the Mendip stone industry was suffering a depression, but the Durham coal mines were expanding, so recruiting experienced stone workers from Somerset might prove a better option for the colliery owners than bringing in inexperienced men from areas closer by.

 

[The exile]

Interesting question.

Walking, its over 250 miles, so assuming 25 miles per day thats 10 to 11 days. But how would our traveller find his way. I doubt that maps were generally available. And then camping or staying in inns or boarding houses, food etc. The cost is going to be more than rail fare. Given the inland locations coastal shipping is unlikely.

So railway travel would likely work out cheapest. Which mean unless there is strong evidence of another form of transport rail would be most likely. I assume that initial hiring would be arranged by letter, as the penny post was in existance by this time.

So what caused him to embark on the journey, how did he find out about the work? Newspaper advert? So maybe some research into the newspaper archives of the period, did they advertise for for workers where he ended up. Maybe the advert would hold some clues, as they may be offering rail travel as part of what today would be called a relocation package. Did he have relatives already in the area

Can you find out if anyone else made the same or similar journey around this time, that might give some clues as to how your ancestor made the journey. Its going to be a lot of circumstancial evidence I suggest unless you by some bit of luck find a paper trail in some archives somewhere.

That all assumes that he was heading for a specific place, as opposed to settling where he eventually found work.

 

[WesternLancer]

I have read of agents, either acting for an employer or on spec, travelling to areas where the local industry was in trouble in order to recruit men to work in the same or similar jobs in other areas. In this case it might be that the Mendip stone industry was suffering a depression, but the Durham coal mines were expanding, so recruiting experienced stone workers from Somerset might prove a better option for the colliery owners than bringing in inexperienced men from areas closer by.

This seems more likely for a job like that than some form of letter of invitation to work. Recruiting agents or even hearing about work in expanding coalfield areas on a grapevine might be likely perhaps. Or indeed adverts in papers as suggested could be plausible. Tho I’m no expert.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Purely as a taster, I've quickly looked at GWR from Bath to Paddington; steamship from London to Newcastle; York, Newcastle & Berwick Railway from Newcastle to Darlington.

So: Friday The only 3rd Class train to Paddington is at 11.40a.m., arriving at 6.40p.m. Stay overnight in London. (Suggest The Sun, upstairs, coffee and chop rooms, 32 Fish Street Hill, near Monument, handy for Steam Packet Wharf.)

Saturday 8.00p.m. General Steam Navigation Company steamer from Hore's Steam Wharf Wapping, overnight to Newcastle, fare 'outside', 12 shillings. One sailing per week.

Sunday. Arrive Newcastle at some point. Travel onwards to Darlington not possible that day. Stay overnight in Newcastle. (Only Queen's Head Hotel and Posting House noted.)

Monday. Nice early start for the 'parliamentary' at 5.30a.m., due Darlington 07.20a.m., hopefully in time for a (late) start at work.

It will be very interesting to see what the long cross-country slog, wholly by rail, throws up in comparison...

 

[Irascible]

I have read of agents, either acting for an employer or on spec, travelling to areas where the local industry was in trouble in order to recruit men to work in the same or similar jobs in other areas. In this case it might be that the Mendip stone industry was suffering a depression, but the Durham coal mines were expanding, so recruiting experienced stone workers from Somerset might prove a better option for the colliery owners than bringing in inexperienced men from areas closer by.

The area of the Mendips in question is a coalfield & the history of coal mining in Somerset is a lot of up & down, so trying to recruit experienced coal miners from there to perhaps more stable employment certainly seems like a good idea.

Could you get a ship from Bristol to Liverpool/Blackpool & then train across the pennines in 1850ish?

 

[mike57]

Could you get a ship from Bristol to Liverpool/Blackpool & then train across the pennines in 1850ish?

Certainly from Liverpool, I think the Manchester - Leeds Calder Valley line opened in 1840

That all assumes that he was heading for a specific place, as opposed to settling where he eventually found work.

If he was just setting off generally north looking for work and had mining or relevent experience then he would likely pass through quite a few mining areas before reaching Durham. I know, only conjecture, but I would say it was more likely he was recruited, possibly with others from the area if there was a local downturn. So in terms of trying to research further I would start by looking in local newspaper archives from the time running up to his move north as there may be an advert or some clues in the news articles.

I had similar problems tracing back the movements of some of my ancestors, my 3xgreat grandfather was born in the West Indies, but eventually turned up in Guernsey. I managed to piece some of it together, but there are still gaps, it about following the most likely scenarios first, you still end up down blind alleys but thats just the nature of it.

 

[Magdalia]

Walk, cadge a lift with carters

Walking, its over 250 miles, so assuming 25 miles per day thats 10 to 11 days.

The novels of Charles Dickens are useful as social histories. For example, David Copperfield walks from London to Dover.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

And maps (lack of) was unlikely to matter as navigation in those days was often by asking people and there would always have been people around. Human beings are, as far as primates are concerned, extremely good at walking.

 

[Snow1964]

I have read of agents, either acting for an employer or on spec, travelling to areas where the local industry was in trouble in order to recruit men to work in the same or similar jobs in other areas. In this case it might be that the Mendip stone industry was suffering a depression, but the Durham coal mines were expanding, so recruiting experienced stone workers from Somerset might prove a better option for the colliery owners than bringing in inexperienced men from areas closer by.

A recruiting agent seems likely, very few labourers born in 1830s would have been able to read, so the idea of having newspaper adverts 200+ miles away seems rather unlikely.

There was definitely less quarrying south and east of Bath area (but its big decline was about 50-60 years later, nearer 1900-1910). There was some coal mining south of Bath (Somerset coal field near Radstock), but that wasn't dying out in 1850 either.

The two most likely events were a financial crash which stopped speculative building in Bath (something that can still be seen today because some streets end abruptly as original plan for estates never restarted), so builders needed to move (I need to check this as I thought it was earlier). The other industry in the area that was in huge decline was the wool industry and all the big mills along Avon valley (cheap alternative cloth from the Industrial Revolution in Lancashire)

 

[The exile]

A recruiting agent seems likely, very few labourers born in 1830s would have been able to read, so the idea of having newspaper adverts 200+ miles away seems rather unlikely.

There was definitely less quarrying south and east of Bath area (but its big decline was about 50-60 years later, nearer 1900-1910). There was some coal mining south of Bath (Somerset coal field near Radstock), but that wasn't dying out in 1850 either.

The two most likely events were a financial crash which stopped speculative building in Bath (something that can still be seen today because some streets end abruptly as original plan for estates never restarted), so builders needed to move (I need to check this as I thought it was earlier).

It was indeed a lot earlier (by about 50 years).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Sep 2024 ==

Certainly from Liverpool, I think the Manchester - Leeds Calder Valley line opened in 1840

If he was just setting off generally north looking for work and had mining or relevent experience then he would likely pass through quite a few mining areas before reaching Durham.

One possibility is relocation based on the interests of landowners. Surplus labour was a recipe for unrest so what easier than to ship off your workless Agricultural Labourers from Somerset to fill gaps in your colliery workforce in Durham. Did the Waldegraves (for example) have mining interests in Durham?
That said, the 1850s were a boom period for UK farmers…

 

[Dr Hoo]

This thread has not been forgotten. After some careful (but not utterly exhaustive) work a 'cheap' single trip from Bath to Darlington in 1850 would have taken one-and-a-half days and cost about 1 pound, 5 shillings and 6 pence plus an overnight stay in Birmingham, not researched.

Very broadly: GWR Bath-Bristol, 12 miles, leave 2.32p.m., arrive 3.23p.m.. Then Midland Railway Bristol-Birmingham, 90 miles, leave 5.00p.m., arrive 9.45p.m.. Stay overnight.

Day 2 Midland Railway Birmingham-Derby, 49 miles, via Whitacre, leave 7.00a.m., arrive 9.00a.m.. Midland Railway Derby-Normanton, via 'Old Road', not Sheffield, 63 miles, leave 9:20a.m., arrive 12.20p.m.. York & North Midland Railway Normanton-York, 31 miles, leave 12.30p.m., arrive 1.50p.m. (note, no 3rd class on this train, would have to pay for 2nd or wait until following day). York, Newcastle & Berwick Railway York-Darlington, 45 miles, leave 2.15p.m., arrive Darlington 4.10p.m.

An epic test of fortitude. It should have been possible to book a through ticket from Bristol to Darlington during the first day's break. Great Western not in Railway Clearing House at that stage. Bradshaw shows some specific point-to-point fares and these have been added to a 'penny-per-mile' for other sections with an estimate for 2nd class Normanton-York. In general terms there was only one train with 3rd class on each route per day at that time. It would have been possible to sleep rough at Normanton and catch a train with 4th class (!) from Normanton to York the following morning and save a few pennies, then the same York-Darlington connection as above.

This has not been subject to exhaustive checking but I hope that it gives a broad idea.