Basic Errors - TPX & Delay Repay

[Esker-pades]

When do I give up and go to the ombudsman?

I emailed TPX on the 22nd of December about a delayed journey on the 17th of December. The journey was Llangynllo to Edinburgh via Crewe and Lancaster. The Lancaster to Edinburgh part was diverted to Glasgow, replacement road transport was provided, and I arrived back in Edinburgh 2 hours late.

I sent this e-mail to them:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I recently made a journey with TransPennine Express that was delayed. I tried to use the online form, but, because I used 3 tickets to make the journey, I was unable to use it. Therefore, I am making my claim here.

Personal Details:
<redacted>

Journey Details:
Date: 17th December 2019
From Llangynllo to Edinburgh
2 changes at Crewe and Lancaster

Itinerary:
17:22 Llangynllo to Crewe
20:09 Crewe to Lancaster
21:21 Lancaster to Edinburgh

The 21:21 Lancaster to Edinburgh service was diverted to Glasgow. As a result, I was over 2 hours late arriving at Edinburgh.

Ticket details:
I used 3 tickets to complete my journey:

Ticket 1:
Advance Single
From: Llangynllo
To: Crewe
For the 17:22 TfW service on the 17th of December 2019 only
Standard Class
Cost: £9.55
<redacted>

Ticket 2:
Advance Single
From: Crewe
To: Lancaster
For the 20:09 AVANTI service on the 17th of December 2019 only
Standard Class
Cost: £2.95
<redacted>

Ticket 3:
Advance Single
From: Lancaster
To: Edinburgh
For the 21:21 TPE service on the 17th of December 2019 only
Standard Class
Cost: £6.80
<redacted>

I have uploaded pictures of all 3 tickets.

My preference for compensation is a bank transfer to the following account:
<redacted>

Yours faithfully,
<redacted>

They responded on the 23rd of January telling me to use their form, and that they would give me £6.80 (the cost of the Lancaster to Edinburgh ticket). I've highlighted the errors.

Dear Felix,

Thank you for getting in touch. I was sorry to learn that you were delayed during your recent journey with us between Lancaster and Edinburgh on 17 October 2019 at 21:21. Usually, these claims can only be accepted via our online form or by a paper form that can be found at any of our stations. Details on how to apply for delay repay can be found on our website:

www.tpexpress.co.uk/help/delay-repay-compensation



As you were unaware of this I have processed your claim from here on this occasion, and asked that our finance team issue you a cheque to the value of £6.80. You should receive this under a separate cover within the next 15 working days. Please note that any future claims sent to this address cannot be processed, and you will be advised to contact the Delay Repay team.



Thanks again for contacting TransPennine Express and I hope your future journeys with us are much more enjoyable.



Yours sincerely

I responded immediately explaining their errors...

Dear Sir/Madam,

There are a number of factual errors made in processing this claim which means that I must ask TPE to re-examine the case.

1: The response I received stated that my journey was made on the 17th of October 2019. This is incorrect. My journey was made on the 17th of December 2019, as I stated in my original e-mail.

2: The response I received stated that my journey was from Lancaster to Edinburgh. This is incorrect. My journey was made from Llangynllo to Edinburgh.

3: Because of the above errors, an error was made in calculating the amount of compensation I am entitled to. The response stated £6.80, but this is incorrect as it does not take into account the fact that my journey was from Llangynllo to Edinburgh. Thus, I believe the amount am entitled to is £19.30 (an additional £12.50).

Finally, the reason I did not make this claim via the delay repay form was because I used more than one ticket. The online form did not allow me to submit more than one ticket, so I made it manually.

I have received no response to my second e-mail, but I have received a cheque for £6.80 in the post.

As I asked at the top, when do I give up with TPX and escalate this claim?

 

[30907]

I think you could reasonably expect a response within 28 days. You need, perhaps, to remind them that delay repay is payable for the whole journey even when using split tickets.

 

[PG]

Usually, these claims can only be accepted via our online form or by a paper form that can be found at any of our stations. Details on how to apply for delay repay can be found on our website:

www.tpexpress.co.uk/help/delay-repay-compensation

As you were unaware of this I have processed your claim from here on this occasion, and asked that our finance team issue you a cheque to the value of £x.xx You should receive this under a separate cover within the next 15 working days. Please note that any future claims sent to this address cannot be processed, and you will be advised to contact the Delay Repay team.

I recently received the same kind of email though they did note my journey (and thus delay repay) correctly, still waiting on the actual funds appearing...

What bugged me was the teacher telling off naughty child attitude of the text, as when using split tickets their online form isn't set up to handle them. Also sounds like they [sarcasm alert] have done me a massive favour by processing my claim from here for which I should be forever in debt to them!

 

[Belperpete]

They will require 20 working days to consider your latest email. Beware of sending further chase-up emails, as with some TOCs this can push your case to the back of the queue - better to phone. .If you haven't received a response within 40 working days, you can take it up with the ombudsman.

 

[Esker-pades]

I recently received the same kind of email though they did note my journey (and thus delay repay) correctly, still waiting on the actual funds appearing...

What bugged me was the teacher telling off naughty child attitude of the text, as when using split tickets their online form isn't set up to handle them. Also sounds like they [sarcasm alert] have done me a massive favour by processing my claim from here for which I should be forever in debt to them!

I was very ticked off with that too. Make your sodding form work then!

They will require 20 working days to consider your latest email. Beware of sending further chase-up emails, as with some TOCs this can push your case to the back of the queue - better to phone. .If you haven't received a response within 40 working days, you can take it up with the ombudsman.

I've seen such things on this forum. I haven't sent any chase-ups yet, and I'll resist the temptation to do so. Thanks.

 

[HSP 2]

If you or any one else has to send in a number of tickets could you not just photo them all together so it's only one attachment?

 

[PG]

If you or any one else has to send in a number of tickets could you not just photo them all together so it's only one attachment?

Its feasible up to a certain number but over that eg a family travelling on splits it gets to the stage its difficult to fit all tickets in one photo/scan

 

[Esker-pades]

If you or any one else has to send in a number of tickets could you not just photo them all together so it's only one attachment?

I prefer to do one at a time so I can be sure that the picture is completely clear.

 

[HSP 2]

I've just had a quick look at TPX DRP on line form if you click on group it does say to send all the tickets as one attachment. After a look on my scanner I can get between 10 and 12 tickets on the screen. If you can't get all of the tickets in one scan could you put it in as two of three claims as long as all of the tickets are different?

 

[Esker-pades]

I've just had a quick look at TPX DRP on line form if you click on group it does say to send all the tickets as one attachment. After a look on my scanner I can get between 10 and 12 tickets on the screen. If you can't get all of the tickets in one scan could you put it in as two of three claims as long as all of the tickets are different?

No. The fundamental error is putting in multiple claims. I am making only one claim: My journey was delayed from Llangynllo to Edinburgh. I used three tickets. The website only gives me the option to enter the details on one ticket. I can take pictures of more than one ticket if requested, but if there is only the option to enter the details for one of these tickets what do I do? Answer: Submit it manually, because the of the limitations of the form.

If I did make more than one claim, how do you propose I'd split the claims, given that I made one journey?

 

[HSP 2]

Its feasible up to a certain number but over that eg a family travelling on splits it gets to the stage its difficult to fit all tickets in one photo/scan

Felix I was not posting to your post in particular but more to the one above.
In that if it was mother, farther and two children and that they had six tickets each, to put it in as two claims with a covering note to say why.
In your case I don't understand why you didn't photo or scan all three tickets together. All you have to do is make sure that they can be read.

 

[Esker-pades]

Felix I was not posting to your post in particular but more to the one above.
In that if it was mother, farther and two children and that they had six tickets each, to put it in as two claims with a covering note to say why.
In your case I don't understand why you didn't photo or scan all three tickets together. All you have to do is make sure that they can be read.

Ah, that was not clear. I understand now.

 

[gray1404]

I see you have responded to them shortly after 23 January asking them to look at the case again. I think you need to give them at least a month before following this up. If you do follow it up then it is best done by phone as a follow up e-mail may send it to the back of the que.

The cheque that they have promised you for £6.80 (although the incorrect amount), has this arrived yet?

If the reply you receive from TPE does not award the additional compensation due or if your compensation fails to arrive, you can ask for a Manager at TPE to review your case and issue a Deadlock Letter. There is a possibility that, following your reply to them, a Deadlock letter will be issued anyway.

Once you have received the Deadlock Letter, or if 2 months has passed since making your complaint and you have not been able to get a resolution you are happy with from the train company, you can take your case to the Rail Ombudsman.

 

[Esker-pades]

I see you have responded to them shortly after 23 January asking them to look at the case again. I think you need to give them at least a month before following this up. If you do follow it up then it is best done by phone as a follow up e-mail may send it to the back of the que.

The cheque that they have promised you for £6.80 (although the incorrect amount), has this arrived yet?

If the reply you receive from TPE does not award the additional compensation due or if your compensation fails to arrive, you can ask for a Manager at TPE to review your case and issue a Deadlock Letter. There is a possibility that, following your reply to them, a Deadlock letter will be issued anyway.

Once you have received the Deadlock Letter, or if 2 months has passed since making your complaint and you have not been able to get a resolution you are happy with from the train company, you can take your case to the Rail Ombudsman.

Yes, I have a cheque for £6.80 from them on my desk now.

What is a Deadlock Letter, and what will it achieve?

 

[gray1404]

A Deadlock Letter is a train companies final response on a matter. In that same letter they should inform you of your right to take your complaint to the Rail Ombudsman.

Do not push too hard for a deadlock letter. Right now you are still in communication with TPE and the easiest outcome is that they agree to award the additional compensation you are owed.

I would personally wait a while longer for their next reply.

 

[Esker-pades]

A Deadlock Letter is a train companies final response on a matter. In that same letter they should inform you of your right to take your complaint to the Rail Ombudsman.

Do not push too hard for a deadlock letter. Right now you are still in communication with TPE and the easiest outcome is that they agree to award the additional compensation you are owed.

I would personally wait a while longer for their next reply.

Thank you for that.

I'm going to wait for their next response before I do anything.

 

[hawk1911]

No. The fundamental error is putting in multiple claims. I am making only one claim: My journey was delayed from Llangynllo to Edinburgh. I used three tickets. The website only gives me the option to enter the details on one ticket. I can take pictures of more than one ticket if requested, but if there is only the option to enter the details for one of these tickets what do I do? Answer: Submit it manually, because the of the limitations of the form.

If I did make more than one claim, how do you propose I'd split the claims, given that I made one journey?

I had a similar issue with the online claim form for East Midlands Railway; I just put in the details for the first of my split tickets, but claimed for the total cost of all the tickets and attached a scan of all the tickets. My claim was approved the day after and paid correctly within 48 hours.

 

[Esker-pades]

I had a similar issue with the online claim form for East Midlands Railway; I just put in the details for the first of my split tickets, but claimed for the total cost of all the tickets and attached a scan of all the tickets. My claim was approved the day after and paid correctly within 48 hours.

That's good to know. I might try that next time I'm met with such a problem.

 

[Esker-pades]

Here's their reply from today:

Dear Felix,


Thank you for your email with regards to your delay repay claim for the journey you took between Llangynllo and Edinburgh on 17 December 2019.


I have checked through the details of your previous case and can see that you had split tickets for this journey so therefore you are only entitled to the cost of the ticket for the affected leg. As we operated the service between Lancaster and Edinburgh, this is the journey that the claim has been processed against and this is why you have only been compensated for the one ticket.


We will not be able to process anything further on this occasion as we did not operate any other services and there was no delay on the other legs.


Thanks again for contacting TransPennine Express.


Yours sincerely

Basically, they are perpetuating the myth that split tickets means I'm only entitled for the specific ticket I used.

They also state that they "will not be able to process anything further on this occasion as we did not operate any other services and there was no delay on the other legs".

Therefore, I think this is the time to send a Deadlock Letter.

How should I word such a document?

 

[gray1404]

I would reply back with something like: -

---
I would like for a Manager to review my case as I believe serious errors have been made in the processing of my claim.

The National Rail Conditions of Travel states clearly that a passenger can use one or more tickets to complete a journey and that delay repay is based on the journey rather then the ticket used for the leg of the journey that was delayed. As my overall journey was delayed, delay repay takes account of the combination of tickets I used to make this journey. Therefore, the remaining £9.75 is still payable.

I am disappointed that, not only was I greatly inconvenienced by your inability to run a robust service on the day of travel, but you have had two occasions to resolve this matter to my satisfaction but have failed to do so. I would now like a Manager review this case and provide a resolution that applies the provisions of the delay repay scheme correctly.

I am aware of my right to take my case to the Rail Ombudsman. However, I would hope that I am not forced to have to escalate this matter further and you will now provide a resolution. Furthermore. I would like you to offer assurances to me that you will investigate why my claim has been incorrectly declined on two occasions and I have been sent replies that show inadequate understanding of the delay repay scheme. I trust you will be able to take the required action in terms of staff training and be able to offer me assurances that any future claims involving a combination of tickets will be dealt with correctly.
---

 

[_toommm_]

Make sure to also keep all correspondence, and if any is done over the phone, have them write it up and give you a case reference (starting with TPEE). Transpennine have been very lacklustre in their note-taking in the past with me, offering something verbally then making no record of it.

I'm currently in a dispute with Transpennine, again where they forgot the NRCoT when I boarded at a station with no ticket machine nor ticket office. They fail to acknowledge it, or instead quote the Conditions of Carriage which, as I'm sure you know, has been outmoded for a few years now.

 

[PG]

I would reply back with something like:

Further to the suggestions made by @gray1404 I think adding a copy of the RDG staff briefing (which specifically covers split tickets) from the first post in this thread by @yorkie would help your case.
Delay Repay applies to the journey regardless of number of tickets held (mythbuster)

 

[Belperpete]

Therefore, I think this is the time to send a Deadlock Letter. How should I word such a document?

You don't send a Deadlock letter, you receive it. While it might be tempting to treat their "We will not be able to process anything further on this occasion..." as implying deadlock, I agree with gray1404's recommendation of asking for a manager review. However, personally I would omit his rather confrontational last paragraph - saying that you will take it to the Ombusdman if the manager disagrees with you rather pre-empts the manager review, and likewise there is no point in asking for an investigation as to why your claim has been incorrectly handled until you have got agreement that it has been. I would simply say "If you are not prepared to consider this claim further, can you please issue a deadlock letter so that I can forward my claim to the Rail Ombudsman".

Note that you can still forward your claim to the Rail Ombudsman without receiving a deadlock letter, but you have to wait 40 working days before doing so.

 

[Esker-pades]

Thank you to all for your replies. I have sent a reply using @gray1404 's as a template but with re-wording, omissions and additional bits.

 

[Esker-pades]

Success!

The remaining cost will be covered by cheque.

My thanks to everyone for their help.

 

[323235]

Glad to see that they paid up, It's obvious that mistakes aside they just add all of these extra hurdles, to get rid of a large percentage who will give up/ don't know their rights and take what they say as gospel.