Barriers at Smithy Bridge station

[Bungle965]

Barriers yet again have not gone down at Smithy Bridge station.

Yet again we see that the automatic level crossing gates at Smithy Bridge train station have not come down. What is a shock is that this is not the first time more like the 3 or 4th im not sure what it is going to take for Network Rail to get it right and make sure that it does not happen again.
At least the lights were flashing.
Sam

(Picture is not mine)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Have you notified them about this?

 

[Bungle965]

Have you notified them about this?

Yes Network Rail have been notified and are on site.
Sam

 

[Tomnick]

It's not really the end of the world. The train will have been cautioned, the driver instructed to pass over the crossing only after checking that it's safe to do so and authorised to pass the protecting signal at Danger - the Rule Book specifically provides for this scenario. If the red road lights aren't flashing, then the train won't be allowed across at all. Yes, it's not brilliant, but you can be sure that the delay minutes accrued will be a far greater motivation to sort any ongoing problem than a complaint from a member of the public!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Smithy Bridge Road is on quite a gradient in the area of the level crossing as it climbs up to Hollingworth Lake from the A58.

 

[Tomnick]

Smithy Bridge Road is on quite a gradient in the area of the level crossing as it climbs up to Hollingworth Lake from the A58.

That doesn't excuse anyone contravening the red road lights - but, even if someone did cross as a train was being cautioned through, the risk would still be low because of the caution. Yes, the poor reliability of the equipment must be frustrating for the locals, but the safety fears (evident on a Facebook group dedicated to the crossing!) really are unfounded.

 

[WestRiding]

Why does Network Rail need to be informed.......... i am sure the Signalman is more than aware that his barriers have once again not worked.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Why does Network Rail need to be informed.......... i am sure the Signalman is more than aware that his barriers have once again not worked.

The signalman may well be aware of what you say, but I am sure that Network Rail or one of their contractors have the men and equipment to effect repairs to whatever problem is causing those barriers to stay in an open position.

Or are you saying that the signalman now can affect repairs as part of his role? I bet that particular idea is one that the union would like to know about if that be the case..:roll:

 

[Tomnick]

The Signalman will, of course, inform Control of the fault so that appropriate action can be taken. I thought that would've gone without saying...!

 

[Philip C]

Whether it makes any difference at all to the actions taken by Network Rail is not really the point, when members of the public seek to bring attention to a matter such as this.

Firstly what harm does it do? Secondly were a child, say, to sustain injury during the period of malfunction many responsible adults would take the view that they are to blame (in some part) through their inaction. I, for one, take this stance. I regard it as a simple matter of being a concerned citizen and not turning my back on issues.

Moreover whenever I've raised matters with authority (Network Rail, Police etc.) I've always been made to feel that my contribution was welcomed.

 

[Tomnick]

I don't think that anyone objects to members of the public personally reporting such issues to Network Rail, even if it's not necessary. Better safe than sorry, and all that. What I find puzzling, both on here and on the crossing's own Facebook group, is the implication that the Signalman, and in turn Control, would otherwise be blissfully unaware that the barriers haven't lowered and would continue to run trains normally at linespeed!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't think that anyone objects to members of the public personally reporting such issues to Network Rail, even if it's not necessary. Better safe than sorry, and all that. What I find puzzling, both on here and on the crossing's own Facebook group, is the implication that the Signalman, and in turn Control, would otherwise be blissfully unaware that the barriers haven't lowered and would continue to run trains normally at linespeed!

How are local residents expected to know what duties are performed by a Signalman? I have actually heard it said by a resident that such a matter as what has been described could have been caused by a faulty circuit that would not be displayed in a warning light. Those "in the know" will scoff at that idea, but members of the general public who have known of similar instances to this in this location do then tend to make some rather unusual assumptions when incidents continue to occur.

Incidentally, my wife and I will be passing through the area early on Saturday morning, on the "Saturday diversionary route" of the Manchester Victoria to Clitheroe train, which traverses the Copy Pit line plus a reversal at Blackburn.

 

[Tomnick]

Is the public perception of the railway industry's safety standards such that they really believe that we routinely pull off for trains to run over crossings at linespeed with no idea whether they're working or not?! Any such occurrence is a very rare thing indeed, and taken very seriously indeed. Those high safety standards are largely why these obstacle detection crossings are so problematic.

In this case, the locals - perfectly entitled to be upset at the disruption caused, of course - seem to have got themselves into a tremendous flap over totally unfounded safety concerns, despite Network Rail's assurances. A photo of a train passing over a crossing with the barriers raised (but red road lights operating correctly) at extreme caution certainly doesn't suggest that one's liable to run through at linespeed with no warning whatsoever!

Just to clarify the detail, these crossings have an indication to show whether the barriers (all four) are detected 'down' or not, and a separate indication to show whether the red road lights are operating correctly. In the absence of the former, it's perfectly legitimate to run trains under caution, which is what happened here.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Usual sensationalism non-news reporting by the MEN......

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ws/watch-heart-stopping-moment-train-10085341

Some motorists risked their lives by heading across the tracks whilst the warning lights were on during the incident, which happened on Thursday evening at Smithy Bridge railway station

The incident, which took place at Smithy Bridge, near Rochdale, last night (Thursday), was filmed by Mike Davies as he walked home from work at around 7pm.

Witnesses say the crossing’s red warning lights were flashing continuously for around an hour, leading some motorists to take their chances to get across while the barriers were up.

Mike, 56, who works at nearby Property Services Plumbing and Heating, said he noticed there was a problem due to the number of cars queuing up at the junction and went to investigate...

As usual you have to register to comment. Err, no. You're alright, thanks!

Clearly this is over-sensationalism in order to get us to watch another marvel film advert! The newspaper should be questioning what idiot approaches and stands so close to the train the way they did and risk being hit by the train when the crossing lights are clearly RED, which means DANGER, STOP!

 

[WestRiding]

Its more the point that S&T will be aware within 5 mins of the fault occuring. The Signaller will Fault it to Control, Control will advise S&T Fault team who will attend as necesary. Regarding safety, i would go as far as saying a level crossing is safer by the fact it is not working, as the Driver of each train will be cautioned across the LC at extremely slow speed, so long as the road lights are working. I get a little fed up of 'reports from a member of the public'. Stuff along the lines of.... Driver- 'i never saw anything bobby, but one of our passengers saw a member of the public walking down the cess so im just informing you' OR Driver 'one of our passengers thought that the train bounced more than it usually does this morning, i didnt notice anything and neither did the guard'. So then we fault it, PWAY goes out for a look, and basically says, nothing to report, back to normal working. The public CAN and that is the key word, CAN, cause a lot of problems because they are wanna be railway workers. Something tells me i will get shot down now, but hey..... By the way, i am not digging at drivers reporting stuff to the signaller. Drivers probably think the same (?) and are duty bound (?) not been a driver, i dont know.

 

[Darandio]

So.....a member of the public notices a crossing fully open with a train passing over it. Now, they have absolutely no idea whether it is known about, why would they? But by reporting it, they are a hindrance.

You couldn't make it up.

 

[WestRiding]

There was a thread on here a small while ago, because a member of the public had seen a signal revert to danger, or something to that effect, or a green going back to double yellow, making out it was a fault or something..... i susspect the signaller just changed his mind.

 

[Llanigraham]

So.....a member of the public notices a crossing fully open with a train passing over it. Now, they have absolutely no idea whether it is known about, why would they? But by reporting it, they are a hindrance.

You couldn't make it up.

I don't see anyone saying that at all.
What I do see is people who do know how the system works saying that by the time the member of the general public has rung, Control will already know about it.

From the front line the procedure is:
Fault is reported by train driver to signaller.
Signaller immediately informs Control.
Control informs S & T and probably the MOM.
Signaller is TOLD to Caution all trains until fault is rectified.
Signaller informs all other Boxes affected.
All further trains are Cautioned.

Signaller may be instructed to put Crossing on "local control" to see if that rectifies fault, after all the above has been done.
Signaller may be instructed to hand lower barriers if allowed (not all are)
MOM may arrive and manually operate barriers.

 

[Tomnick]

Even simpler (and more robust) than that, the Signalman will be immediately aware of the problem - though not necessarily that it's a fault - by the lack of a 'down' indication and the fact that the protecting signals won't clear. I certainly wouldn't expect Control to tell me how to pass trains either (that's what my knowledge of the Rules & Regs is for), though I would welcome their technical input if there's something that I haven't already tried (although the options are rather limited at a crossing, as this one is, which is remote from its supervising box).

 

[Llanigraham]

From my experience Control will tell you to Caution, even though they know you will.
Belt and braces!

 

[34D]

Surely it is wrong to assume that the signaller was aware of the fault?

I mean, yes there are sensors etc to confirm the barriers are down, but they could be faulty too?

 

[Carntyne]

I much prefer members of public wasting my time by reporting it than those who'd leave it or feel they're a hindrance.

 

[Tomnick]

A concerned member of the public reporting a genuine concern is one thing, and to be welcomed - although it's quite unnecessary in this case, and would surely be evident to any onlookers by the fact that trains were quite clearly passing under caution (and not "speeding" through, as some media reports suggest). It's quite another to then become outraged at the railway's 'dangerous' actions, despite all assurances that the crossing has failed in a safe state that it's designed to fail in, and that train movements subsequently are in accordance with the Rule Book.

 

[Llanigraham]

Surely it is wrong to assume that the signaller was aware of the fault?

I mean, yes there are sensors etc to confirm the barriers are down, but they could be faulty too?

In the case in question it is quite obvious that the signaller was FULLY aware of the fault at this crossing, because the train has not sped across but has crossed slowly, and therefore obviously was "proceeding under caution".

If this is a CCTV crossing or a "Mk1 eyeball" crossing then if the barriers have failed to drop then the protecting signal could not have been cleared. Therefore the signaller would have known about it when he couldn't clear the signal. Plus on a CCTV he would have seen the barriers hadn't come down.

As the protecting signal could not be cleared then the train would have had to stop at the signal and get instructions from the signaller.
"Driver of 1X11, the crossing at XXXXXX has failed with the barriers up, but with all lights acting normally. I authorise you to pass signal AA12 at Danger, obeying all future signals, and to approach the crossing at XXXXXXX at caution, being prepared to stop for any obstruction. Over."

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

We passed through the area of the barriers on a train to Clitheroe (usual Saturday divert at present via the Copy Pit line) early on Saturday morning and all was well then and the road traffic was queueing with the barriers fully down.

 

[sheff1]

So.....a member of the public notices a crossing fully open with a train passing over it. Now, they have absolutely no idea whether it is known about, why would they? But by reporting it, they are a hindrance.

You couldn't make it up.

Indeed ... and rather at odds with the regular announcements we hear on the railway exhorting us to report anything unusual to staff or BTP.

 

[Tomnick]

Indeed ... and rather at odds with the regular announcements we hear on the railway exhorting us to report anything unusual to staff or BTP.

As above, I don't think that anyone has suggested that it'd be a hindrance - although I'd question whether it's appropriate to use an emergency phone (adding to the signalman's already inflated workload) to report something that is clearly already being dealt with.