Barrhill station: risk of prosecution?

[EricS]

Someone I know recently needed to catch a Northbound train from platform 1 of Barrhill station. The only way to that side is via crossings signposted with two signs: "stop look and listen (etc)" and "passengers must not cross the line (etc)". After puzzling for a few minutes about whether they were allowed to cross, they concluded there was no other way to platform 1 and walked over the crossing.

I just now noticed this thread (now locked) about someone who had been prosecuted for trespassing at a crossing:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=85253

The National Rail page for Barrhill says "This station has Barrow or Level crossing. We do not recommend that you use it without assistance."

On the one hand, the station is on a curve so you can't see very far, but on the other hand the trains are infrequent and not very fast, so it seems reasonable to me for passengers to walk across. Also, platform 1 is clearly designed for use by passengers -- it even has a newish-looking shelter.

Could someone be prosecuted for going to platform 1 at Barrhill? If so, what are northbound passengers meant to do?

 

[michael769]

Where a sign warns passengers not to cross the line, it is a criminal offence to do so. Passengers should seek a route using public roads and footpaths. Some stations do require a lengthy walk to get from one platform to another.

Barrow crossing are only for the use of staff, and the stop look and listen board is for their benefit. At some stations a barrow station is he only means for prams and wheelchairs to access platforms, but in those cases they must be escorted by railway staff.

I you are genuinly unable to cross, then you should seek the assistance of staff, using the help point if necessary, and only use the crossing if authorised by staff to do so.

If as you say there is poor visibility due to a curve then anyone ceossing without first getting confimation from signallers that no trains are approaching risks being killed. Trains can travel at over 100mph and can require more than a mile to stop. The electric sets used on this line are silent and you are unlikely to hear it coming until it is too late to get to safety.

 

[edwin_m]

Going solely by the information on the National Rail website and Ordnance Survey map:

Since the crossing is the only access to the platform then it must have been assessed and passed as safe for use by the general public, taking into account factors such as sighting distance of approaching trains and the speed they may be approaching at. Therefore you should not be in danger or at risk of prosecution for reasonable use of the crossing and the signs that say "Passengers must not cross the line" should also say (usually in much smaller letters) "Except by means of the foot crossing". It looks as if the crossing also serves as a vehicle access to nearby farmland/woodland and some of the signs may relate to the drivers of the vehicles.

On this basis the warning on National Rail seems a bit strange. The assessment for crossings doesn't say anything about whether people need to assisted, and although an assistant may be able to help if someone falls they can sometimes actually make things less safe by providing a distraction. The station is shown as unstaffed so no assitance is available, and although there may be someone in the signal box they will not routinely come out to help passengers. They would however do what they could to stop trains and assist in an emergency. Is this note just a bit of backside-covering by the operator or ATOC? If so it seems particularly pathetic!

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Trains can travel at over 100mph and can require more than a mile to stop. The electric sets used on this line are silent and you are unlikely to hear it coming until it is too late to get to safety.

Can't help feeling that you are thinking of a different Barrhill from the one I know on the Stranraer line.

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=15791

 

[jp347]

Or they intend passengers to sue the alternative access map shown on the map to reach platform 1, rather than the barrow crossing. It is odd that stations made easy doesn't even acknowledge the existence of platform 1.

At Spalding we have a barrow crossing which is available to the public, but it is not shown on the station facilities as existing.

I think it is not relevant that "Trains can travel at over 100mph and can require more than a mile to stop. The electric sets used on this line are silent and you are unlikely to hear it coming until it is too late to get to safety." as each crossing has to be assessed and I think trains cannot be going that fast here as tokens/staffs need to be exchanged (but I may be wrong on that).

 

[John Webb]

A look at 'GoogleEarth' and pictures at http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NX2281 indicate that there is a public level crossing at the south end of the station. There also appears to be a small signal box on the platform operating signals on both lines. I would consider therefore that the level crossing is an adequate means of crossing to the opposite platform.

 

[EricS]

(...) Some stations do require a lengthy walk to get from one platform to another.(...)

I've just discovered using Google Maps that there was a way to get from the public road to Platform 1: walking on an unpaved, un-signposted road through a forest... for 4.3 miles! Surely passengers aren't expected to do that.

(...) Trains can travel at over 100mph and can require more than a mile to stop. The electric sets used on this line are silent and you are unlikely to hear it coming until it is too late to get to safety.(...)

The line's not electrified. The only trains I've been on there are Class 156s, and they're all scheduled to stop at Barrhill.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A look at 'GoogleEarth' and pictures at http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NX2281 indicate that there is a public level crossing at the south end of the station. There also appears to be a small signal box on the platform operating signals on both lines. I would consider therefore that the level crossing is an adequate means of crossing to the opposite platform.

The Ordnance Survey maps do indeed show "LC", which I suppose normally means a public level crossing. However, when I was there in person, the road crossing was clearly signposted as being for "authorised users only". The road crossing is actually very close to the "barrow crossing" at the southbound end of the station. As far as I can tell, using that wouldn't be any more or less safe than using the "barrow crossing".

 

[yorkie]

Where a sign warns passengers not to cross the line, it is a criminal offence to do so. Passengers should seek a route using public roads and footpaths. Some stations do require a lengthy walk to get from one platform to another.

That would be 8 miles in this case.

Barrow crossing are only for the use of staff, and the stop look and listen board is for their benefit. At some stations a barrow station is he only means for prams and wheelchairs to access platforms, but in those cases they must be escorted by railway staff.

In this case it appears to be used by farm vehicles, the road which crosses the railway line at this point is called Forest Road.

I you are genuinly unable to cross, then you should seek the assistance of staff, using the help point if necessary, and only use the crossing if authorised by staff to do so.

According to the National Rail website there is a help point, it seems odd if they want that to be used, if there isn't a sign giving such an instruction. Without visiting and seeing what signs are there it's difficult to say, of course.

If as you say there is poor visibility due to a curve then anyone ceossing without first getting confimation from signallers that no trains are approaching risks being killed. Trains can travel at over 100mph and can require more than a mile to stop. The electric sets used on this line are silent and you are unlikely to hear it coming until it is too late to get to safety.

You may be thinking of somewhere else, this is a diesel line and Barrhill is a passing loop, with single track either side. Linespeed is (or was) 50mph for passing trains approaching from the South.

 

[Railsigns]

All trains must stop at Barrhill to exchange single line tablets.

 

[Stats]

The Ayr-Stranraer Rail Regeneration study for Transform Scotland in 2008 and commissioned by SPT among others said

In common with many rural stations in England & Wales (but relatively few in Scotland), at Barrhill passengers who wish to access the Ayr-bound platform across the two tracks from the main station building must cross the line at grade on a ‘barrow crossing’ – there is no footbridge or underpass. This is recognised as being a sensible ‘fit-for-purpose’ approach at stations with low throughput, and is a feature of a number of the designated ‘community railways’ on the Network Rail system south of the Border.

http://www.transformscotland.org.uk/GetFile.aspx?ItemId=179

 

[EricS]

(...) According to the National Rail website there is a help point, it seems odd if they want that to be used, if there isn't a sign giving such an instruction. Without visiting and seeing what signs are there it's difficult to say, of course.(...)

I looked reasonably carefully at the station and its signs when I was there.

The station plan on National Rail shows one "barrow crossing" at the southbound end of the platforms. In reality, there are two barrow crossings, one at each end of the platforms. They both have two signs. The signs carry the standard wording that such signs usually carry. One has "stop look and listen (etc)", the other "no trespassing, passengers must not cross the line (etc)". As well as the two barrow crossings, there is a crossing which vehicles could use, pretty much right next to the barrow crossing at the southbound end of the station. It has a sign with the standard wording about "authorised users only" (presumably the authorised user is a local farmer or a forestry company).

There's also a sign explaining that trains to Stranraer go from platform 2 and trains to Glasgow go from platform 1 (again, a standard design of sign). There were also up-to-date timetables for both directions, the same as any Scotrail station. If there were special instructions for getting to platform 1, I didn't notice them.

 

[181]

Arisaig is rather similar, but without the adjacent level crossing -- the only other way off the Fort-William-bound platform is over the fence and across the pathless hillside. I was there earlier this year and noticed that since my previous visit some years before, one of the 'passengers must not cross the line' signs at the eastern end had been covered over, so you can cross in one direction before you see it -- maybe there was once a cover on the other one which has fallen off. When we boarded the train towards Fort William the guard didn't quiz us about how we'd reached the platform.

I assumed that it was just a bureaucratic mix-up, with an office somewhere issuing an edict that all barrow crossings should have such signs without realising that some of them are legitimate routes for passengers. I'm a bit more puzzled that the National Rail website has the phrase recommending (but not insisting) that you don't use the crossing without assistance, given that the station is unstaffed (without even a signalbox as at Barrhill), and won't show you a route to the other platform. I can't remember whether there's a Help Point.

 

[The Decapod]

Near where I live there's a public footpath that crosses a 100 mph double-track line where there's limited visibility in both directions. Anyone can legally use this crossing at any time, yet it's far more dangerous than many so-called 'trespassing' situations.

 

[edwin_m]

It should have been assessed by Network Rail and extra measures (probably whistle boards) provided if the time for the train to arrive at the crossing from when it is first seen is less than the time for a person to cross. Several recent RAIB reports describe the process but also demonstrate that it sometimes isn't applied properly. So if you believe there is a problem here then I suggest you contact Network Rail.

 

[joeykins82]

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_BRL/plan.html?rtnloc=BRL

The barrow crossing is shown on the plan but there's no other method of crossing shown, so yeah I'd say that use of the crossing is fine!