Barcelona Attack 17 Aug 2017

[ooo]

An awful tragedy and I hope the number of deaths doesn't rise above the current 13

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[Strathclyder]

Utterly gutwrenching. Hope the death toll doesn't rise any further. My thoughts are with the emergency services & the families/friends of the victims at this incredibly difficult time.

At least 13 people have died and 80 were injured after a van ploughed into crowds in Barcelona's famous Las Ramblas tourist area, police and local officials say.
The vehicle sped along the pedestrian area, mowing down people and sending others fleeing for cover.
Police are treating the incident as terrorism.
The head of the Catalan region said two people had been arrested over the attack.
Spanish media are reporting another suspect died in a shootout. El Mundo newspaper said the shootout happened in Sant Just Lesvern, on the outskirts of the city.
But police denied earlier reports of two suspected attackers taking cover in a bar in the city centre.
Witnesses said the van in Las Ramblas had deliberately targeted people before stopping.
Spanish media reports said the driver of the vehicle - a white Fiat that had been rented in the city - fled on foot.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40965581

 

[Bletchleyite]

There will, sadly, be lots more of these, because unlike anything involving doing nasty things to aircraft or making explosives there simply can't be an audit trail - one nutter decides one morning to get in his van and kill people.

The only way to combat it is street furniture keeping vehicles away from pedestrians. Which to be fair have dual benefits in preventing accidental collisions as well.

 

[Peter0124]

I walked down that exact pavement the van drove over when I went to on holiday to salou 3 months ago, its really sad that these things happen.

 

[bramling]

There will, sadly, be lots more of these, because unlike anything involving doing nasty things to aircraft or making explosives there simply can't be an audit trail - one nutter decides one morning to get in his van and kill people.

The only way to combat it is street furniture keeping vehicles away from pedestrians. Which to be fair have dual benefits in preventing accidental collisions as well.

And then, unfortunately, another means of attack is found and we're back to square one. Damned both ways sadly.

 

[Busaholic]

There will, sadly, be lots more of these, because unlike anything involving doing nasty things to aircraft or making explosives there simply can't be an audit trail - one nutter decides one morning to get in his van and kill people.

The only way to combat it is street furniture keeping vehicles away from pedestrians. Which to be fair have dual benefits in preventing accidental collisions as well.

Too much street furniture impedes the emergency services responding not only to terrorist attacks but other emergencies like large fires. I read a report shortly after the Grenfell Tower disaster which said many of the fire engines called couldn't get anywhere near to tackling the fire because of concrete bollards in the way.

Large scale pedestrianisation of city shopping streets will have to be reviewed, particularly where they don't currently exist but are being planned - surely such plans for London's Oxford Street will have to be consigned to the dustbin?

 

[507021]

Utterly gutwrenching. Hope the death toll doesn't rise any further. My thoughts are with the emergency services & the families/friends of the victims at this incredibly difficult time.

I couldn't agree more.

RIP.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Large scale pedestrianisation of city shopping streets will have to be reviewed, particularly where they don't currently exist but are being planned - surely such plans for London's Oxford Street will have to be consigned to the dustbin?

I don't see why. Raising/lowering bollards or locked gates with the fire service holding keys are options to allow access while still having pedestrianisation.

And not pedestrianising makes access easier. The other such UK attack was London Bridge, which is not pedestrianised.

 

[AlterEgo]

Another attack on [insert Western country here]. Nothing to do with foreign policy and everything to do with radical Islam attempting to destroy the West.

 

[DarloRich]

another terrible attack carried out by islamonut jobs. Spain doesn't seem an obvious example of the alleged imperialistic foreign policy that is used by these people to try & justify their actions elsewhere.

Could there be another reason?

 

[Hornet]

another terrible attack carried out by islamonut jobs. Spain does seem an obvious example of the alleged imperialistic foreign policy that is used by these people to try & justify their actions elsewhere.

Could there be another reason?

Well they do have two enclaves in North Africa, (which are part of the EU). There has been some anti-tourist sentiment brewing for some weeks. Primarily from a left wing Catalan pro independence youth group (ARRAN).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Spain does seem an obvious example of the alleged imperialistic foreign policy that is used by these people to try & justify their actions elsewhere.

Could there be another reason?

For how many years was Spain under the rule of the Moors before they were finally defeated in battles in the Reconquista and lost control over that European country? Perhaps that fact rankles with the IS.

That might well be one of the reasons you seek.

 

[northwichcat]

And not pedestrianising makes access easier. The other such UK attack was London Bridge, which is not pedestrianised.

Indeed. In the past week there's been two accidents involving vehicles pedestrians in my local non-pedestrianised town centre. Residents have started calling for pedestrianisation again to prevent such accidents.

 

[AlterEgo]

Now there's been an attack on that disgraceful historic imperial power, Finland, by "several men shouting Allahu Akhbar". This has taken place in Turku.

Apparently the police have shot an attacker/s in the leg. There are conflicting reports about whether it was one attacker or several.

EDIT: Some Finnish people on social media are saying the shouts were "Varo, varokaa" ("be careful!") rather than Allahu Akhbar.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's the timing of this that has really hit me...

One the one hand, using vehicles as weapons has become worryingly commonplace after attacks from both Islamist groups and right-wing groups/individuals. On the other hand, in recent weeks things have been relatively quiet on the terrorism front in Europe.

Whenever there's an attack there's an argument about how to respond. Do we respond with the military? Recent history suggests that this is both expensive (not just financially) and apparently counter-productive. Do we tighten our domestic laws? Again this breeds feelings of resentment (whether justified or not) and then there's the argument that "if we change our way of life, the Terrorists win".

Specifically with regard to vehicle attacks, there are practical steps that we can take to reduce the risks. Some of those changes (increased pedestrianisation coupled with better barriers/blockages between pedestrianised areas and those open to traffic) also have other benefits (improved air quality; reduced risk of accidental vehicle incursions) that would arguably be worth doing even without the terrorism factor.

Regardless of the details and analysis of the events in Barcelona, there are now multiple families whose loved ones will not come home. That is a tragedy regardless of the cause, and even more so when the cause is one rooted in misguided hatred. My thoughts are with those people killed and injured, and with those left behind.

On the other hand, the harrowing footage of the immediate aftermath shows, alongside the horror, dozens of people doing their very best to assist those injured. I've seen accounts of staff running out of hotels to tend to the injured, in spite of fears that this attack could at that point have also involved a London Bridge-style armed element.

In a seven-day spell that has seen Terrorist attacks on both sides of the Atlantic, and the death of Bernard Kenny (the 79-year-old who intervened to try to protect Jo Cox MP and was stabbed in the process), we should unite against hatred of all kinds. We should celebrate all those things that make humanity great, while striving against the hatred and divisiveness that holds us back.

 

[AlterEgo]

Finnish police confirm they have evidence the attack in Turku was a terrorist related atrocity. It is the first jihadist attack in Finland, they say.

 

[northwichcat]

In a seven-day spell that has seen Terrorist attacks on both sides of the Atlantic, and the death of Bernard Kenny (the 79-year-old who intervened to try to protect Jo Cox MP and was stabbed in the process), we should unite against hatred of all kinds. We should celebrate all those things that make humanity great, while striving against the hatred and divisiveness that holds us back.

What's also annoying is some are calling anyone who denounces far right extremists as lefties while right wing publications are referring to groups like ARRAN as far left extremists and trying to include the Italians who want limits on the number of cruise ships which can stop in Venice at any one time, in the same category. Both David Cameron and Nigel Farage spoke out against the killer of Jo Cox, that didn't make them 'lefties.'

 

[61653 HTAFC]

What's also annoying is some are calling anyone who denounces far right extremists as lefties while right wing publications are referring to groups like ARRAN as far left extremists and trying to include the Italians who want limits on the number of cruise ships which can stop in Venice at any one time, in the same category. Both David Cameron and Nigel Farage spoke out against the killer of Jo Cox, that didn't make them 'lefties.'

I know what you mean- it happens even on here!

 

[Groningen]

We need (infortunately) add a 15th death to the Barcelona attack. The driver of the killing truck needed a new ride and decided to kill a driver of a car with a knive to get away from the area.