Bar Belgrade Sleeper Train

[Class15]

Hi all,

So I’ve now taken the sleeper train twice from Bar to Belgrade, and I have a few quick questions.

First of all, does the engine change from a Montenegrin one to a Serbian one at Bijelo Polje or Prijepolje?

Second of all, the engine is just a single one on the Montenegrin side, and always seems to be double-headed at the Serbian side. Is there a particular reason for this? The train is quite long but if double-heading is required, why not on the Montenegrin side?

Lastly, it has been seriously late into Belgrade both times. According to the guard, this train is always late. It seemed we were just getting gradually later for the whole journey, starting off at Bar bang on time and arriving at Belgrade 2 hours late. The previous time, it was 4 hours late but with an earlier booked arrival time. Is this due to a lost path (most of the route is single-track, except for Resnik-Belgrade) or poor track condition and speed restrictions throughout?

Many thanks for any help received!

 

[AdamWW]

Second of all, the engine is just a single one on the Montenegrin side, and always seems to be double-headed at the Serbian side. Is there a particular reason for this? The train is quite long but if double-heading is required, why not on the Montenegrin side?

The power need must depend on gradients as well as train length.

And the need for two engines might be for increased power but might also be in case one fails.

 

[Jealgu]

They are not the same types, 441 in Serbia and 461 in Montenegro (according to Vagonweb).

 

[The exile]

Hi all,

So I’ve now taken the sleeper train twice from Bar to Belgrade, and I have a few quick questions.

First of all, does the engine change from a Montenegrin one to a Serbian one at Bijelo Polje or Prijepolje?

Definitely Bijelo Pole when I did it but that was a) 7 years ago and b) in the other direction. Did Bar - Belgrade on the day train and we were double headed from Uzice Teretna to Belgrade (461 from the border, 441 added at UT) but I got the impression that wasn’t planned!

 

[Class15]

The power need must depend on gradients as well as train length.

And the need for two engines might be for increased power but might also be in case one fails.

Thanks, I guess it may be more mountainous in Serbia. Or, as you say, cover for failures.

They are not the same types, 441 in Serbia and 461 in Montenegro (according to Vagonweb).

My train was hauled by a 461 in Montenegro and a 441 and 461 doubleheaded in Serbia.

Definitely Bijelo Pole when I did it but that was a) 7 years ago and b) in the other direction. Did Bar - Belgrade on the day train and we were double headed from Uzice Teretna to Belgrade (461 from the border, 441 added at UT) but I got the impression that wasn’t planned!

That makes sense, thanks! I wasn’t awake at Užice so that could well be it!

 

[The exile]

That makes sense, thanks! I wasn’t awake at Užice so that could well be it!

We passed the 441 at Uzice itself - set off and then came to an abrupt halt one station further on (Uzice teretna) - which I assumed from its condition (there was clearly a local graffiti “artist” with a phallic obsession but apparently not much experience or artistic skill) to be closed, but apparently not. Lots of gesticulating from the crew then nothing for about 45 minutes until the 441 appeared. Both locos appeared still to be working though.

 

[doc7austin]

One peace of advise:
If you want to travel the Bar-Beograd railway line, I wouldn't want to wait so long.

With the construction of the Bar-Beograd motor highway (and to cover its loans), I wouldn't be surprised if any investments into maintaining the railway line stops.
So the railway line and trains may become history soon.

 

[Class15]

One peace of advise:
If you want to travel the Bar-Beograd railway line, I wouldn't want to wait so long.

With the construction of the Bar-Beograd motor highway (and to cover its loans), I wouldn't be surprised if any investments into maintaining the railway line stops.
So the railway line and trains may become history soon.

I very much doubt it to be honest. Don’t forget that Bar is a major shipping port and its only connection to Europe by rail is via the Beograd-Bar line.

 

[doc7austin]

I very much doubt it to be honest. Don’t forget that Bar is a major shipping port and its only connection to Europe by rail is via the Beograd-Bar line.

Authorities in Montenegro may come to the conclusion that cargo is going transported by trucks via the new shiny motorway.
Moreover, on my recent trip on that railway line I haven't seen any cargo trains at all.

 

[Class15]

Authorities in Montenegro may come to the conclusion that cargo is going transported by trucks via the new shiny motorway.
Moreover, on my recent trip on that railway line I haven't seen any cargo trains at all.

At Bar there were 2 container trains sitting in the station and an aggregate/coal train as well. I guess most of it runs at night?

 

[AdamWW]

Authorities in Montenegro may come to the conclusion that cargo is going transported by trucks via the new shiny motorway.
Moreover, on my recent trip on that railway line I haven't seen any cargo trains at all.

Is it common in Europe to close railway lines down once a parallel motorway is constructed?

According to https://www.wbif.eu/project-detail/PRJ-MNE-TRA-004

The extension of the Orient/East-Med Corridor into the Western Balkans along Route 4 is approximately 580 km long and runs from Vrsac (Serbia – Romania border) to Belgrade (Serbia) and then to Podgorica and Bar (Montenegro). Bar – Vrbnica (the latter at the Montenegro – Serbia border) is the most important section of the Montenegrin rail network, carrying about 20% of rail passengers and about 60% of the freight. Rail plays an important role in the Montenegrin economy, accounting for almost 60% of all freight and 10% of passenger travel.

The Bar – Vrbnica route opened to traffic in 1976 and since then there has been no major overhaul of the signalling systems nor of the numerous bridges and tunnels located on this route. Montenegro has however commenced planning for the rehabilitation and modernisation of the entire railway track since the early 2000s, with assistance from the European Union, the European Investment Bank, and the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development.

The EU has provided technical assistance for project preparation and co-funds the investments under the Connectivity Agenda and Flagship 2 - Connecting North to South - of the Economic and Investment Plan for the Western Balkans through the WBIF.

60% of freight by rail seems impressive to me, especially for a relatively small country.

I don't know when this is from though, or when the motorway construction was planned.

 

[The exile]

Is it common in Europe to close railway lines down once a parallel motorway is constructed?

Given the fact that this particular line must be phenomenally expensive to maintain in the fairly poor condition it is let alone to bring up to modern safety standards and only two passenger trains a day do it end to end even before the shiny new (and presumably much quicker) motorway has opened to pinch much of the most lucrative traffic, there must be a danger that a line only built for political and historically strategic reasons won’t survive.

 

[Cloud Strife]

With the construction of the Bar-Beograd motor highway (and to cover its loans), I wouldn't be surprised if any investments into maintaining the railway line stops.

The Bar - Belgrade motorway won't be completed anytime soon. In Serbia, the A2 has almost reached Pozega, but the last 100km to the Montenegrin border hasn't been financed and it's very unlikely to do so in the short to medium term. In Montenegro, the A-1 will reach Andrijevica in a few years, but I'd be very surprised if anything more is constructed when Montenegro has far more urgent needs, i.e. the coastal highway.

From Andrijevica to Pozega, it's the hardest part of the Bar - Belgrade motorway to build, it will take a huge amount of money and effort to build, and both Montenegro and Serbia have other priorities. It's more likely that Montenegro will focus on building the second Sozina tunnel as well as the Podgorica bypass, as it'll be easier to loan money for them.

The railway is safe for the next 20-30 years at least, as long as it doesn't get shut down through a lack of maintenance.

 

[AdamWW]

From Andrijevica to Pozega, it's the hardest part of the Bar - Belgrade motorway to build, it will take a huge amount of money and effort to build, and both Montenegro and Serbia have other priorities. It's more likely that Montenegro will focus on building the second Sozina tunnel as well as the Podgorica bypass, as it'll be easier to loan money for them.

I'm completely biased of course but I'd say put the money into improving the railway they already have and people and goods can go by train....