Banking - is Lickey the only location?

[Gwenllian2001]

I recall from experience, baking took place at Manchester Exchange daily .....

Bob

Eccles cakes?

 

[Beveridges]

modern units are all powerful enough to get everywhere unaided

Except 142s of cause

 

[bnm]

modern units are all powerful enough to get everywhere unaided; the few remaining "loco hauled" trains similarly are hauled by hugely powerful locos.

In the days when Central Trains/London Midland ran their two-hourly service from Gloucester up the Lickey they stopped the use of Class 150s after one or two instances of stalling.

 

[biggyn]

In the days when Central Trains/London Midland ran their two-hourly service from Gloucester up the Lickey they stopped the use of Class 150s after one or two instances of stalling.

Which is ironic really, seeing that nowadays, the only services London Midland run with class 150s, other than on the Marston Vale line, are up the Lickey!

Speaking of freight up the Lickey Incline, it's pretty amazing how many freight trains run up the hill unaided. Shows these 66s are pure brutes!

 

[Wikipedia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAT6VtnPNV8

14 mins almost of pure thrash.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I meant t'other Victoria but what great memories nevertheless

Chris

:grin: No worries, when I was a northern monkey growing up in the 1970's Manchester was one of my regular haunts! I'm surprised that the departure from Victoria represents much of a challenge to steam loco's.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Which is ironic really, seeing that nowadays, the only services London Midland run with class 150s, other than on the Marston Vale line, are up the Lickey!

Speaking of freight up the Lickey Incline, it's pretty amazing how many freight trains run up the hill unaided. Shows these 66s are pure brutes!

Dunno about pure brutes I think the empty turns go up unassisted but I have seen steel and coal traffic banked, but nowadays I don't think the banker is used much in the daytime mainly as there isn't much freight up there, most of it avoiding the lickey anyway.

I do like to see the Class 60 go up there on it's own on 6E41, with 25-30 TEAs in tow (granted it's empty, but still a fair bit of weight)

 

[greg tingey]

I well remember banking @ Man Vic up Miles Platting ...
best of all, somewhere I have a photo of thge banking tank dropping off the top of Shap .....

 

[truckman060473]

That's some serious pulling power even for 2 locos to manage that! The Westerleigh often weighs 2700+ tons I would never have thought even 2x 66 could get that up a 1 in 52.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


This occured not so long back. 60 at the front, 66 at rear. Manages it, but it's slow progress. Can be viewed on Youtube - "Rare footage - Super 60 60063 does Cockett" courtesy of Rob Masterman.

 

[Beveridges]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAT6VtnPNV8

14 mins almost of pure thrash.

Just shows how a Tractor can pull or push almost anything, even if at a slow speed. Especially the regeared 37/7s. Not the first time I've seen a single 37 stand in for a class 60 duty.

 

[12CSVT]

From memory wasn't the overnight Bristol - North East/ Scotland train the last passenger service to be banked on a regular planned basis?

The last day this was banked was 15th May 1988. 47522 + load 16 + 37071 + 37133. The train used to stop in the platform at Bromsgrove while the banker(s) buffered up.

Euston to Primrose Hill had bankers until electrification, that last locos used for this duty being Sulzer type 2s (latterly class 25). The 25s did (or attempted to) bank some trains after electrics started running into Euston, however it was soon discovered that the superior power of the AC electrics meant that the 25s couldn't keep up with them even when hauling lengthy passenger trains.

Beattock had bankers, until the late 1970s or early 1980s, class 20s being the usual motive power.

 

[HSTEd]

So the freight trains that are banked up Lickey.... if the line was electrified and the trains had access to trains like Class 92s (perhaps similar locomotives with up to 10,000hp) would they then require banking?

I assume it would have a huge advantage if you hit the bottom of the incline at ~50mph or so so you are in the power limited regime.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Depends on where they are coming from I guess. Freight can come from anywhere and you aren't going to see the entire network electrified any time soon so you will always have a diesel engine pulling something up the Lickey.

 

[HSTEd]

Depends on where they are coming from I guess. Freight can come from anywhere and you aren't going to see the entire network electrified any time soon so you will always have a diesel engine pulling something up the Lickey.

Well yeah, I was just wondering if you could get a very heavy train up the Lickey without additional tractive effort if you had effectively unlimited power (since a modern 25kV electric could have the same power as 3 Class 66s)

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Well then the answer is obviously yes but as you cant guarantee an electric loco on the front of whatever is coming in you are always going to need to bank from time to time. Even waiting there with an electric loco if the bank was under wires would be banking, wouldnt it?

 

[HSTEd]

Well then the answer is obviously yes but as you cant guarantee an electric loco on the front of whatever is coming in you are always going to need to bank from time to time. Even waiting there with an electric loco if the bank was under wires would be banking, wouldnt it?

Well if a huge proportion of the traffic over the incline was hauled by electrics, it would probably become more economical to attach a second unit to the remaining diesels than to maintain a standby crew on the embankment with a banking locomotive.

Because a train hauled by double Class 66s still only needs one crew and can haul one of the units dead for most of the time.

 

[apk55]

The most important thing for a train engine is being able to restart a train anywhere on its journey, normaly the steepest uphill gradiant. This is dependant on the maximum tractive effort of the locomotive, which with modern technology would depend on the locomotive weight, irespective of whether it is a diesel or electric. The difference between a diesel and an electric is that tractive effort would fall off rapidly at speed with a diesel ( typicaly to about half starting TE at 30MPH) whereas an electric could maintain almost starting tractive effort to speeds of more than 50 MPH

A banker is usefull where only a short section of a route is steeply graded and a train engine can maintain the required shedual for most of the route but could stall on the steeply graded section.

 

[The Planner]

Well if a huge proportion of the traffic over the incline was hauled by electrics, it would probably become more economical to attach a second unit to the remaining diesels than to maintain a standby crew on the embankment with a banking locomotive.

Because a train hauled by double Class 66s still only needs one crew and can haul one of the units dead for most of the time.

That isn't the way the banker works though. It has WTT paths to coincide with a WTT freight that needs banking. It will come down from Saltley and then go back after, it doesn't hang around all day.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

That tractor thrash up the Lickey is the most unbelievable thing I've heard in ages. Found myself thinking "my Lordz" and I never say that.....

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[PHILIPE]

Steam Charters have to be banked from Exeter St Davids to Exeter Central following a stalling about 3 years ago.

 

[dave55uk]

So how does banking work? How does the assisting driver know how much 'shove' to give the train?

 

[RichmondCommu]

So how does banking work? How does the assisting driver know how much 'shove' to give the train?

Thats a very good question! If it was me (and I'm 46) I'd give it everything I'd got just for the thrill of it!

 

[Beveridges]

How does the assisting driver know how much 'shove' to give the train?

the assisting driver just gives it full power all the way, no reason to give anything less

yes, if the Lickey was electrified, a class 92 would not need banking and it would probably be able to haul the heavier loads uphill at a reasonable speed

Even class 60's don't always need banking, if 2x 66's can manage the 2700 tonne Westerleigh then 1x 60 can manage 2000T

 

[L&Y Robert]

In the old days the coal trains from Yorkshire were always banked from Todmorden (Stansfield Hall) to Copy Pit. These loose coupled trains are no more, but when the route was re-signalled (demise of Stansfield Hall sig. box) the now famous Todworden West curve was lifted and Stansfield Hall junction done away with - but not quite! The points leading from the west curve were retained, together with a short stub of track. I always assumed the purpose of this was to locate a banker, if particularly difficult traffic was expected. On one occasion, some years back, my spy in the area phoned to say there was a train of spectacularly luxurious coaches "Parked" (she said) just short of Harley Wood tunnel. I suggested it had probably stalled on the steep hill, and was waiting for a banker. She phoned again a while later to say it had moved on towards Burnley, and had been "Pushed up'th 'ill wi' another engine". It was a drizzly evening, she said, so adhesion problems no doubt, but the 'Banker Siding' not used that time.