Ban on rest day work

[Metobusfan]

Sorry if this is in wrong bit!

Can a TOC put a ban on RDW. I've just be told that one has

 

[WCMLaddict]

Are you sure this is TOC banning it rather than Union?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unless your contract guarantees you overtime, you are not guaranteed to receive it. So I would say yes, they can, unless your contract of employment says otherwise.

 

[Metobusfan]

Are you sure this is TOC banning it rather than Union?

The TOC... the finance director if it was to be the truth

 

[theageofthetra]

Any details on which TOC?

 

[Metobusfan]

Any details on which TOC?

Thameslink

 

[WCMLaddict]

Good on the company! They must have enough staff to cover all diagrams and all eventualities. That's really how it should be.

 

[Metobusfan]

Good on the company! They must have enough staff to cover all diagrams and all eventualities. That's really how it should be.

Not too sure if it's the drivers I know it the platform staff it affects

 

[bramling]

Good on the company! They must have enough staff to cover all diagrams and all eventualities. That's really how it should be.

Wouldn't bet on that!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good on the company! They must have enough staff to cover all diagrams and all eventualities. That's really how it should be.

In all seriousness I do believe they should have sufficient staff of all kinds to cover normal day to day operations including Sundays. Overtime/RDW should ideally be something for emergencies, e.g. to cover an unexpected high level of sickness. But I know some staff do rely on it.

 

[WCMLaddict]

Wouldn't bet on that!

I would also be extremely surprised by that.

Doesn't really matter if it's train crew or platform staff.

 

[tony6499]

Two situations here, all the TOC's depots etc are full establishment and thus no overtime is required which is not banning RDW it is how it should be done or a TOC is cutting costs and decides that stations, ticket offices, even train crew overtime is not to be rostered and they will go with the cancelled trains, shut station ticket offices that is the result.

 

[WCMLaddict]

In all seriousness I do believe they should have sufficient staff of all kinds to cover normal day to day operations including Sundays. Overtime/RDW should ideally be something for emergencies, e.g. to cover an unexpected high level of sickness. But I know some staff do rely on it.

I was actually serious when saying that it should be this way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was actually serious when saying that it should be this way.

Oh, sorry, my misreading.

 

[northwichcat]

Even if you had enough staff to cover every shift allowing for all but exceptional circumstances, why would you want to ban rest day working? If something like a infectious gets spread in the mess room couldn't that still result in cancelled services due to staff shortages when staff who are perfectly capable of coming in and covering are sitting at home and don't have any real plans?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't ban it, I would just want to recruit sufficient staff, including staff contracted to work Sundays, to ensure it was only required in exceptional circumstances.

 

[ComUtoR]

Thameslink

Don't worry. We can cover their work.

 

[Gemz91]

Two situations here, all the TOC's depots etc are full establishment and thus no overtime is required which is not banning RDW it is how it should be done or a TOC is cutting costs and decides that stations, ticket offices, even train crew overtime is not to be rostered and they will go with the cancelled trains, shut station ticket offices that is the result.

Or the TOC is asking spare men to come in later/earlier to cover uncovered turns instead of covering them with rest day work men.

 

[Skimble19]

Not too sure if it's the drivers I know it the platform staff it affects

I wouldn't bet on that.. Certainly on GN that'll leave a LOT of stations uncovered rather regularly at the moment..

 

[Shaggy]

Or the TOC is asking spare men to come in later/earlier to cover uncovered turns instead of covering them with rest day work men.

You are presuming that such 'spare men' would be willing to move from their booked hours.

Many would yes. Some out of principle won't move a minute even if faced with a potential cancellation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, though "every man has his price" - it's just different sums for different people, so the overtime rate on offer will attract some but not others.

 

[Phil.]

Even if you had enough staff to cover every shift allowing for all but exceptional circumstances, why would you want to ban rest day working? If something like a infectious gets spread in the mess room couldn't that still result in cancelled services due to staff shortages when staff who are perfectly capable of coming in and covering are sitting at home and don't have any real plans?

Well if the operation is fully staffed that should include relief staff. Or am I being a bit B.R. here?

 

[scotraildriver]

There is no RDW at Scotrail. First group said they didn't need it. Abellio are now finding they do. But as First were so arrogant and basically told the union "we have hired more staff so you can stick your RDW" now Abellio are struggling to agree terms to reintroduce it. Fun times. Typically someone at office/board level has looked at the figures and concluded there are enough staff to cover the work. Unfortunately these decisions tend to "forget" about things like training courses, sickness, delays and other factors that can cause staff shortages. Finance director says "no". Passengers suffer.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

What I find odd is our lot have more drivers than ever, but require more freeday working than ever!

I like the majority at our depot just say NO, as they've cut the ROP back to basic pay, which is actually less than basic pay when you take your tax, NI etc out of it. And they never seem to show any gratitude for getting them out of the cack.

So, sorry. I can't help you. And if the union were to ban it, you'd still get some who will because they don't belong to the union, but I tend to think that it would have a pretty significant impact on service. And the thing with withdrawal of freeday working is that there's nothing they can do about it and best of all it costs crews virtually nothing as they still get paid their basic money.

 

[ComUtoR]

Finance director says "no". Passengers suffer.

Ultimately; staff costs are passed to the passenger. No RDW would reduce staff costs. That should equate to a lesser ticket hike in the future. Having a manageable budget and keeping them within costs means that future franchise bids are more favorable and ergo; should benefit the passenger.

 

[Surreytraveller]

No RDW would reduce staff costs.

Not necessarily. No RDW means more staff, which means more sick pay, more annual leave pay, more uniforms, more training, more employer pension payments. And no doubt a load of other costs I haven't thought of. It can be cheaper to pay out overtime than employ adequate numbers of staff.

 

[ComUtoR]

It can be cheaper to pay out overtime than employ adequate numbers of staff.

Very true and we had this discussion on another thread. Overtime payments are outside of a fixed budget. There is an ingrained culture on "the railway" where RDW is expected and widely used.

Rosters are already built with flexibility and sp allowance for training, leave, etc. The casual use of RDW needs to stop and sp turns used to better effect and more efficient planning when it comes to training etc. Again, this has been discussed before.

Thameslink have sundays outside and are reliant on RDW to cover them. Whenever there is problems with "the railway" and passengers are told that the railway runs on overtime (discussed in other threads) there is huge backlash form the passenger and the various commentators on this very forum.

Now the situation is being dealt with a rather draconian approach there is gonna be the same commentators and passengers calling for RDW to cover trains and how they are suffering :roll:

You can't have it both ways. The passenger will end up paying either way. Anybody who works in finance and deals with budgets etc will tell you that fixed costs are much more preferential. Set the correct staff level, fix the budget, deliver the service.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

First basically told the union "you can stick your RDW".

Similar words from TPE when union wanted a 4 day week implementing. TPE said no, ASLEF pulled RDW agreement, TPE said so what? we domt need your RDW.

Now blackpool, windermere and cleethorpes routes have gone down the pot!

 

[craigybagel]

Surely RDW is cheaper than the fines for cancelling trains?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

The Arrogance from board level tends to make the Finance directors position come available more often than most.