Balcombe Resignalling

[neilm]

Hi

Bit confused about the following:

Network Rail will be making improvements to signalling on the Brighton Main Line this weekend and next, to increase capacity and reliability. As a result, buses will replace trains between Three Bridges and Brighton.

Passengers are reminded to check before they travel either at National Rail Enquiries or with their train operator – Southern or Thameslink GTR.

Once the project to upgrade the line is complete, the lines around Balcombe and Hayward’s Heath will have a new signalling system to allow trains to run in both directions on both tracks, with new, and more reliable equipment and a doubling of capacity from 6 to 12 trains per hour.

These improvements to the Brighton main line are part of Network Rail’s ongoing programme of upgrade to the railway to accommodate the ever growing number of passengers taking the train.

Do they mean that trains can run the wrong side at 12 trains per an hour, instead of 6? Also what other improvements are there. are they reducing the headways?

 

[Yabbadabba]

Hi

Bit confused about the following:



Do they mean that trains can run the wrong side at 12 trains per an hour, instead of 6? Also what other improvements are there. are they reducing the headways?

Six trains per hour in the right direction and six trains per hour in the wrong direction in flights of three ie twelve an hour, instead of about six in the right direction and 2 in the wrong direction under the old SIMBIDs ie about eight per hour.

Only alterations to the Interlockings and the right directions signals were commissioned this weekend 21st, 22nd March the wrong direction signals get commissioned next weekend on the 29th March.

 

[neilm]

Six trains per hour in the right direction and six trains per hour in the wrong direction in flights of three ie twelve an hour, instead of about six in the right direction and 2 in the wrong direction under the old SIMBIDs ie about eight per hour.

Only alterations to the Interlockings and the right directions signals were commissioned this weekend 21st, 22nd March the wrong direction signals get commissioned next weekend on the 29th March.

Thanks, and are they reducing the headways in the normal direction? I see lots of new signals in the normal direction of travel as well.

 

[Yabbadabba]

No new signals in the right direction, just replacement LED heads or like for like replacement, so the headways remain the same.

 

[neilm]

Cool thanks for the information, do you know what work was done this weekend and what is planned next weekend?

 

[Yabbadabba]

All the signals were in place before the weekend up, it was just a case of altering the interlocking. The weekend just gone was the right direction signals and the weekend coming up is the wrong direction signals.

 

[neilm]

Thank you, and just to confirm before this project only one track was bi directional and after it both tracks will be?

Also does this mean with 12 trains an hour possible that perhaps they could do more single track closures?

 

[Yabbadabba]

No, both tracks Blacombe Tunnel Junction to Copyhold Junction were bi-directional under SIMBIDs (i.e. the was only one signal section in the wrong direction) as are the lines from Haywards Heath to Keymer Junction and Keymer Junction to Preston Park. This project brings in full bi-directional signalling between Balcombe tunnel junction and Copyhold Junction (i.e. it's fully signalled with 5 signal sections in the wrong direction and keeping seven signal sections in the right direction).

 

[Railsigns]

To be clear, this was never true SIMBIDS, since AWS was provided for wrong-direction signals and the AWS for normal-direction signals was equipped with suppression. This bi-di installation pre-dated SIMBIDS.

 

[neilm]

Right I understand better now, any plans to role this south of Haywards heath?

 

[Yabbadabba]

Right I understand better now, any plans to role this south of Haywards heath?

None so far have surfaced for consultation, but I bet there is an idea out there sitting on a managers desk somewhere.

They still haven't worked out if they are going to commission the axel counter sections in Balcombe Tunnel or not, as part of the current scheme, let alone work anymore plans up.

 

[neilm]

None so far have surfaced for consultation, but I bet there is an idea out there sitting on a managers desk somewhere.

They still haven't worked out if they are going to commission the axel counter sections in Balcombe Tunnel or not, as part of the current scheme, let alone work anymore plans up.

Is that to replace the problematic track circuits in there?

Also do you think wrong side workings will be used more, like at weekends?

 

[Yabbadabba]

Is that to replace the problematic track circuits in there?

Also do you think wrong side workings will be used more, like at weekends?

We don't generally have any track circuit problems there, although Balcombe tunnel is a wet tunnel. Maybe someone was looking towards the future and thinking that we might have problems if the tunnel gets any wetter?

It's anyone guess if there will regular use of the new bi-di signalling or it's just for perturbation, it has never been answered with any certainty on how they intend to use it in all of the meetings that I've attended.

 

[John1975]

All the signals were in place before the weekend up, it was just a case of altering the interlocking. The weekend just gone was the right direction signals and the weekend coming up is the wrong direction signals.

Out of interest, are these Signalling & Permanent Way Alteration notices available to read on Connect?

 

[MarkyT]

To be clear, this was never true SIMBIDS, since AWS was provided for wrong-direction signals and the AWS for normal-direction signals was equipped with suppression. This bi-di installation pre-dated SIMBIDS.

Agreed. However I think the term has always been used colloquially in the area, but there's definitely no official use of it in the sectional appendix, except some odd mentions in clauses regarding the use of 'formulaire', presumably a Eurostar legacy on the South Eastern route, and icw a certain kind of track machine, both of which I think are a mistake.

 

[infobleep]

Does this mean they could run trains during the night like they do to Three Bridges?

 

[neilm]

Does this mean they could run trains during the night like they do to Three Bridges?

Or all day Sunday? With 6 trains an hour each way I think they could do it?

I think it is:

North
2x Bedford
4x London Victoria

South
4x Brighton
1x Ore
1x Littlehampton/Portsmouth

 

[Yabbadabba]

Does this mean they could run trains during the night like they do to Three Bridges?

They could of run during the night before the modifications, just they choose not to, subject to engineering work.

 

[infobleep]

They could of run during the night before the modifications, just they choose not to, subject to engineering work.

I thought the lack of night running was due to more stringent safety rules these days. So I was wondering if this would help make things safer to run trains.

 

[Yabbadabba]

I thought the lack of night running was due to more stringent safety rules these days. So I was wondering if this would help make things safer to run trains.

We do SLW over one line while the other three are shut quite a lot on Saturday nights over part of the section between East Croydon and Three Bridges. So we could quite easily run trains on the two track railway over one track or both tracks from Balcombe Tunnel Juntion to Brighton subject to enginnering work. All you need is the willingness of the TOCs to provide it and run rail replacement buses on the nights that trains can't run. Those decisions are above my pay grade.

 

[infobleep]

We do SLW over one line while the other three are shut quite a lot on Saturday nights over part of the section between East Croydon and Three Bridges. So we could quite easily run trains on the two track railway over one track or both tracks from Balcombe Tunnel Juntion to Brighton subject to enginnering work. All you need is the willingness of the TOCs to provide it and run rail replacement buses on the nights that trains can't run. Those decisions are above my pay grade.

OK. I didn't know that. Perhaps there is no demand. Saying that not sure what the demand would be from Three Bridges vers Brighton. I guess with Gatwick Express trains stopping in Gatwick Airport already, they can't also stop the Thameslink as well.

 

[Yabbadabba]

OK. I didn't know that. Perhaps there is no demand. Saying that not sure what the demand would be from Three Bridges vers Brighton. I guess with Gatwick Express trains stopping in Gatwick Airport already, they can't also stop the Thameslink as well.

The way I look at it and recommend to my friends and family. If your going to London town and likely to be comimg back later than the last direct train to the south coast, then use Three Bridges as your rail head and use the overnight service to there, as there is nowhere to park cars or pick up people from at Gatwick Airport staion. Not to mention Three Bridges is a southern train crew depot.