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Bakerloo Upgrade and new trains

Snow1964

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The earlier thread is now closed

Appears the Bakerloo upgrade has reached the TfL Board Programmes and Investment Committee for further authorisation

1.1 This paper provides the Committee with an annual update on the BLU Programme (the Programme), outlining progress since the previous submission in March 2025 and a request for an increase in Programme and Project Authority of £16.4m for the Programme.
3.2 Stage 1 comprises the replacement of the existing fleet, reconstruction of depot and stabling facilities, power supply upgrades, enabling works, Platform Train Interface and Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations improvements, together with associated operational readiness activities.

3.3 Stage 2, which includes future signalling renewal and wider capacity enhancement works, remains outside the currently funded scope of the Programme and is considered a longer-term aspiration.

 
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edwil

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Would be great if they utilise this fleet renewal for extra train sets to run the Bakerloo Line trains to Watford Junction which provides higher turn back capacity than Harrow and Wealdstone, and would also improve service frequency and connectivity to a wider part of Central London for stations beyond Harrow and Wealdstone. Also gives a chance to cutback Lioness Line service to further improve step-free access and service reliability with reduced operational complexity.
 

Benjwri

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Would be great if they utilise this fleet renewal for extra train sets to run the Bakerloo Line trains to Watford Junction which provides higher turn back capacity than Harrow and Wealdstone, and would also improve service frequency and connectivity to a wider part of Central London for stations beyond Harrow and Wealdstone. Also gives a chance to cutback Lioness Line service to further improve step-free access and service reliability with reduced operational complexity.
The line doesn’t even have a fourth rail in large parts, I doubt the signalling has tripcocks. What benefit would you get from spending such a huge amount of money to make this happen?
 

starlight73

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With regard to 'improving step-free access', I seem to remember that the Lioness line trains have less of a step to board compared with the Bakerloo line trains? (The Bakerloo has a huge step down onto the trains north of Queens Park, and I think I read on another forum that no wheelchair ramp could be designed to manage this step)
 

Benjwri

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Better frequency of trains?
The Underground isn’t some golden token though. More frequent and longer trains could be provided without huge infrastructure cost by just ordering more overground trains. That that hasn’t happened says all that needs to be.
 

Snow1964

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The Underground isn’t some golden token though. More frequent and longer trains could be provided without huge infrastructure cost by just ordering more overground trains. That that hasn’t happened says all that needs to be.
The Bakerloo (or more strictly Baker Street and Waterloo Railway) originally only had platforms that were around 290 feet (88 metres) the tunnel platforms were subsequently lengthened to nearer 370 feet (113 metres). On most of the platforms, generally can see where the tunnel rings of the platform extensions start as they were built around original tube size rings, so there is kink in the platform walls/ceilings

The new 24 tube stock is around 373 feet (114 metres), so would fit and increase capacity if extra batches ever get sanctioned for Bakerloo
 

Benjwri

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The new 24 tube stock is around 373 feet (114 metres), so would fit and increase capacity if extra batches ever get sanctioned for Bakerloo
There are many places it should fit and doesn't. You're of course ignoring that there isn't fourth rail or tripcocks, and that it isn't all about clearance for a regular service, DOO monitors, platform gaps, the list goes on. If you wanted to spend the money why wouldn't you just order more 710s? What benefit does a costly extension bring that that doesnt? But this is probably getting quite speculative.
 

brad465

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With regard to 'improving step-free access', I seem to remember that the Lioness line trains have less of a step to board compared with the Bakerloo line trains? (The Bakerloo has a huge step down onto the trains north of Queens Park, and I think I read on another forum that no wheelchair ramp could be designed to manage this step)
This is going to be a headache of sorts should the Bakerloo Line pursue level boarding for the deep level platforms. The line might need to raise all its platforms on the underground section in order to be of the same/similar height to the platforms shared with Overground. At least with the extension, if built, they could be built to the new height.
 

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