Bakerloo Line Refurb?

[pilotrobbie]

Are the 1972 Stock currently having a further refurbishment? I've seen some stock on the morning services having a new handrail either side of the door and all the rails seem relatively fresh on the trains I've seen and new seats?

 

[Dstock7080]

Yes, new floor covering, LED lighting, handrails, wheelchair spaces and new passenger displays all being done at various stages of refurbishment

 

[renegademaster]

Have they fixed the lights going on and off constantly problem in the refurb?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Yes

 

[Basil Jet]

Is this the first time 52 year old trains have ever been refurbished?

 

[43096]

Is this the first time 52 year old trains have ever been refurbished?

What about 1938 tube stock for the Isle of Wight?

 

[A60stock]

Some of the trains with the new LEDs already have cases where these are failing. They're not even a year old in most cases

On trains where the old bulbs are in place, you have full carriages where most of the bulbs are gone. I did not even realise you are allowed to operate a train with this many gone.

The changes are welcome but it's awfully slow, only the LEDs and floor coverings are on most trains now. The other changes don't feature on most trains yet

 

[trebor79]

Have they fixed the lights going on and off constantly problem in the refurb?

Yes

Awww, that's a shame. There's something fun about the lights going out briefly at breaks in the conductor rail!

 

[pilotrobbie]

Is this just an internal refurb then? Or a mid-life refurb to keep the stock moving?

 

[bramling]

Is this just an internal refurb then? Or a mid-life refurb to keep the stock moving?

Neither really. They are essentially doing the bare minimum to keep the stock going, and in particular to attempt to meet accessibility legislation as far as practicable bearing in mind the age of the stock.

 

[Snow1964]

They are non compliant with RVAR, there was an exemption for multiple items to 2024, granted years ago. But didn't bother to fix the problems during the exemption period and are now grovelling to DfT to grant them another 5 years because they didn't get act together / didn't want to spend money / thought of reasons that it was inconvenient or required changes / didn't bother to source a parts supplier, (choose an answer).

Basically TfL agreed the refurb would start 2018-19 and be completed by 2023-24. They reneged on their commitment to do it and now want extra 5 years

There is open consultation launched 29 Feb, and presumably if enough people complain then will not be granted another exemption

RVAR 2010 exemption: London Underground Limited Bakerloo line trains

www.gov.uk

RVAR 2010 exemption: London Underground Limited Bakerloo line

Seeks views on the Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations (RVAR) exemption request by London Underground Limited in respect of the Bakerloo line.

www.gov.uk

 

[DelW]

Is this just an internal refurb then? Or a mid-life refurb to keep the stock moving?

I hope it's not "mid-life" as these trains are over fifty years old now! Pushing them on to their century would be way too much, even the '38 stock on the Isle of Wight only got to just over eighty .

 

[Snow1964]

Is this just an internal refurb then? Or a mid-life refurb to keep the stock moving?

No this was the refurb agreed in 2018 to get an RVAR exemption until 2024. The backstop date for getting all fleet done was agreed as end of current financial year (in 3 weeks time)

 

[trebor79]

There is open consultation launched 29 Feb, and presumably if enough people complain then will not be granted another exemption

RVAR 2010 exemption: London Underground Limited Bakerloo line trains

www.gov.uk

RVAR 2010 exemption: London Underground Limited Bakerloo line

Seeks views on the Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations (RVAR) exemption request by London Underground Limited in respect of the Bakerloo line.

www.gov.uk

And then what? Shut the Bakerloo for years?

 

[Snow1964]

And then what? Shut the Bakerloo for years?

That's why there is effectively now panic, because they don't want to admit to missing a deadline they agreed to 6 or 7 years ago, and having chosen to ignore it, not put in any contingency to run a service when deadline expires.

It is classic bury head in sand until brown stuff is about to hit the fan

 

[pilotrobbie]

For me the Bakerloo Line is one of the best lines to cross Central London and connect up. It's like the 148 bus of the Tube land.

Closing it would be ludicrous.

 

[thomalex]

There is no way on gods green earth the Bakerloo line is being shut. Ridiculous hyperbole

 

[Snow1964]

There is no way on gods green earth the Bakerloo line is being shut. Ridiculous hyperbole

I guess TfL could pay daily fines instead for non compliance.

Not such a wacky idea as that is what TfL would do to those who don't meet ULEZ standards, and in principle would be double standards not to, and easy money for the enforcement agency.

 

[trebor79]

For me the Bakerloo Line is one of the best lines to cross Central London and connect up. It's like the 148 bus of the Tube land.

Closing it would be ludicrous.

There is no way on gods green earth the Bakerloo line is being shut. Ridiculous hyperbole

Exactly.
It's kind of a bit ridiculous to expect the trains to be "accessible" when the stations aren't. What's the point? (I know it's the law, but sometimes the law is an ass!)

 

[bramling]

For me the Bakerloo Line is one of the best lines to cross Central London and connect up. It's like the 148 bus of the Tube land.

Closing it would be ludicrous.

Normally I’d agree. However with the potential for the issue to turn into a mayor versus government game of politics, this isn’t quite as far-fetched as one might imagine. I don’t expect it to happen, but never say never.

 

[Mojo]

Exactly.
It's kind of a bit ridiculous to expect the trains to be "accessible" when the stations aren't. What's the point? (I know it's the law, but sometimes the law is an ass!)

Remember that Rvar doesn’t just cover wheelchair accessibility, but some of the other derogations applied for example concern train announcements (so impact the visually impaired), and handrails by doors (so impact those who can walk but need extra support).

 

[Silent]

Wouldn’t more stations be made accessible in the future though? Also what about accessible interchanges? I imagine something like Baker Street Northbound Jubilee to Bakerloo Line can easily be an accessible interchange.

 

[trebor79]

Wouldn’t more stations be made accessible in the future though? Also what about accessible interchanges? I imagine something like Baker Street Northbound Jubilee to Bakerloo Line can easily be an accessible interchange.

Bakerloo platforms at Waterloo, for example, are never going to be "accessible" without a total rebuild, new platform tunnels etc. Which we all know is never going to happen.

 

[Silent]

But it still has some accessible stations and interchanges. I looked at a step free guide in the tfl website and Baker Street is wheelchair accessible if interchanging Jubilee with Bakerloo line.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/step-free-tube-guide-map.pdf

 

[Blindtraveler]

Remember that Rvar doesn’t just cover wheelchair accessibility, but some of the other derogations applied for example concern train announcements (so impact the visually impaired), and handrails by doors (so impact those who can walk but need extra support).

Thank you for pointing this out, the bakerloo has many disabled travelers who use regularly and in some cases and I include mine here cover high mileages

 

[Skimpot flyer]

That's why there is effectively now panic, because they don't want to admit to missing a deadline they agreed to 6 or 7 years ago, and having chosen to ignore it, not put in any contingency to run a service when deadline expires.

It is classic bury head in sand until brown stuff is about to hit the fan

Well it would have to be brown stuff. Any other colour is not Bakerloo-compliant
Seriously, though, there was the small matter of a global pandemic during the 5-year exemption period, which might give TfL an excuse for not completing the modifications in time?

 

[Russel]

Have to say, I was sat on a Bakerloo line train yesterday in one of the bays of 4 seating, bouncing up and down on the thick padded seats and it was bringing back happy memories of the 38 stock on the Isle Of Wight.

The 72 stock definitely has character.

 

[Blindtraveler]

It does and I will miss it when it finally goes

 

[Nym]

Well it would have to be brown stuff. Any other colour is not Bakerloo-compliant
Seriously, though, there was the small matter of a global pandemic during the 5-year exemption period, which might give TfL an excuse for not completing the modifications in time?

Except there was no chance of hitting the exemption end dates even before the RVAR deadlines.

TfL has been bleeding engineers and making poor decisions on Bakerloo RVAR and CLIP projects for years. Not kicking off the former until 7 years after it was known to be needed and even when done, no serious work being done for a number of years after

 

[Basil Jet]

Have to say, I was sat on a Bakerloo line train yesterday in one of the bays of 4 seating, bouncing up and down

The line north of Queens Park is called the Buckaroo for a reason!