Baffling GTR fares

[moogal]

My parents travelled up from London to visit family in Huntingdon at the weekend, but due to the weather and a few other factors weren't sure when they'd return, so had only bought single tickets.
Looking to return today they found tickets were 50% more expensive at £30.20 for the Anytime. Expecting this to be because it wasn't early enough for off peak pricing to have kicked in, I had a quick look on brfares and was surprised to see that all the off-peak singles were restricted to weekend and bank holiday only. Is that normal for this route? It feels odd for a commuter service to not offer an off-peak option.

 

[Watershed]

It's quite common; the Anytime Day Single here costs less than the cheapest Off-Peak return fare valid on a weekday. Therefore there is no need for a cheaper Off-Peak single fare.

In retrospect your parents would probably have been better off buying an Off-Peak Return, but hindsight is 20/20...

 

[moogal]

It's quite common; the Anytime Day Single here costs less than the cheapest Off-Peak return fare valid on a weekday. Therefore there is no need for a cheaper Off-Peak single fare.

In retrospect your parents would probably have been better off buying an Off-Peak Return, but hindsight is 20/20...

Fair enough - living on the south WCML there's a noticeable difference between on and off peak fares during the week so I was surprised the same wasn't the case here given the similar operations.

And yes, hindsight is wonderful - in their case they were also not sure whether they'd be getting the train back from Lincoln or Huntingdon.

 

[Watershed]

Fair enough - living on the south WCML there's a noticeable difference between on and off peak fares during the week so I was surprised the same wasn't the case here given the similar operations.

And yes, hindsight is wonderful - in their case they were also not sure whether they'd be getting the train back from Lincoln or Huntingdon.

It's essentially down to whether there is single leg pricing. There is no single leg pricing for Off-Peak fares here, hence why there is no weekday Off-Peak single.

 

[Haywain]

My parents travelled up from London to visit family in Huntingdon at the weekend, but due to the weather and a few other factors weren't sure when they'd return, so had only bought single tickets.
Looking to return today they found tickets were 50% more expensive at £30.20 for the Anytime. Expecting this to be because it wasn't early enough for off peak pricing to have kicked in, I had a quick look on brfares and was surprised to see that all the off-peak singles were restricted to weekend and bank holiday only. Is that normal for this route? It feels odd for a commuter service to not offer an off-peak option.

Thameslink and Great Northern routes have had cheaper weekend pricing, in the form of Super Off Peak fares, for quite some time and they offer a decent discount over weekday fares.

 

[JonathanH]

Thameslink and Great Northern routes have had cheaper weekend pricing, in the form of Super Off Peak fares, for quite some time and they offer a decent discount over weekday fares.

This certainly seems to be one case where cheaper weekend fares have caused confusion and someone has incurred extra cost as a result.

The presentation of fares as solely 'Anytime' and 'Off-peak' on the National Rail journey planner can cause confusion. If it said 'Weekend' for these fares it might have been better understood.

 

[Haywain]

This certainly seems to be one case where cheaper weekend fares have caused confusion and someone has incurred extra cost as a result.

I don't think that's true - an Off Peak Return would have been cheaper than two Super Off Peak Singles.

 

[JonathanH]

I don't think that's true - an Off Peak Return would have been cheaper than two Super Off Peak Singles.

True, but the availability of a cheap weekend fare meant that they had a false sense that this would also be available on a weekday and meant that they didn't check to see if there was an off-peak return.

 

[Haywain]

True, but the availability of a cheap weekend fare meant that they had a false sense that this would also be available on a weekday and meant that they didn't check to see if there was an off-peak return.

Did it? Do you know them?

 

[paul1609]

Fair enough - living on the south WCML there's a noticeable difference between on and off peak fares during the week so I was surprised the same wasn't the case here given the similar operations.

And yes, hindsight is wonderful - in their case they were also not sure whether they'd be getting the train back from Lincoln or Huntingdon.

In truth the Offpeak single from Northampton (slightly further) is £29.60 so it's not really that baffling. The major difference is that there is no midweek super off peak.

 

[moogal]

In truth the Offpeak single from Northampton (slightly further) is £29.60 so it's not really that baffling. The major difference is that there is no midweek super off peak.

When I said baffling I meant that there were no off-peak fares offered on weekdays, as opposed to the specific pricing. As infrequent rail users they were expecting it to be cheaper to travel outside of the weekday peak times.

 

[Hadders]

The fares from Huntingdon to London Terminals are as follows:

Anytine Return £60.40
Anytime Day Return £51.60
Off Peak Return £40.30
Off Peak Day Return £31.70
Super Off Peak Day Return £30.80 (weekdays)
Anytime Day Single £30.20 (half the price of the Anytime return)
Super Off Peak Day Return £20.80 (weekends only)
Super Off Peak Day Single £20.70 (weekends only)

In an ideal world there's a place for an Off Peak Day Single. Using historical BR pricing methodology it would be £30.70 (10p less than the return) but there'd be no point as the Anytime Day Single would still be cheaper. A price of £21.00 or thereabouts for an Off Peak Day Single wold make sense, but then it opens up the opportunity for commuters to buy an Anytime Day Single in one direction and a Network Railcard discounted Off Peak Day Single in the other thereby undercutting the price of the Anytime Day Return by a significant margin (there are no off peak evening restrictions).

First Capital Connect introduced cheaper weekend fares in the mid-2000s and these have been very successful in driving passenger numbers at weekends. When first introduced there was no single fare so anyone wanting a single was better off buying a return and throwing away the return portion. FCC eventually saw sense and introduced singles.

This fares structure exists all over the GN side of GTR. Going off topic it's a good exam question for anyone studying the introduction of a simplified PAYG fares system, in which single leg pricing applies with only Anytime and Off Peak fares. We can assume that the Anytime fare would be £30.20 but what off peak fare would be charged? My guess is that it'd be around £16. Sounds great until you realise you'd pay more to travel back in the evening peak and at weekends. It'd be a huge price increase for many.