Backdated Pay for Company leavers

[PLY2AYS]

Just floating a speculative thread out there; whether any drivers who have left TOCs during the most recent dispute have had trouble or delay with receiving their backdated pay?

Is this a shared experience with other drivers who have changed companies?

I know the vast majority of companies paid their employees around October… but that was 3 months ago.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Just floating a speculative thread out there; whether any drivers who have left TOCs during the most recent dispute have had trouble or delay with receiving their backdated pay?

Is this a shared experience with other drivers who have changed companies?

I know the vast majority of companies paid their employees around October… but that was 3 months ago.

Contact your (former) branch sec.

Mine was/is being sorted through a dedicated portal, all the info I had came from my old Branch Secretary

 

[PLY2AYS]

Contact your (former) branch sec.

Mine was/is being sorted through a dedicated portal, all the info I had came from my old Branch Secretary

Appreciate the feedback @tiptoptaff hope yours is hassle free and accurate!

I think in this instance, something similar is going on with GWR’s backpay arrangements.

However, I’d heard that company internal communications was along the lines of ‘leaver’s backpay to be issued by December’…

Not like they didn’t know this was coming or anything! Just dragging their heels it seems.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Appreciate the feedback @tiptoptaff hope yours is hassle free and accurate!

I think in this instance, something similar is going on with GWR’s backpay arrangements.

However, I’d heard that company internal communications was along the lines of ‘leaver’s backpay to be issued by December’…

Not like they didn’t know this was coming or anything! Just dragging their heels it seems.

Its GWR I'm claiming from!

February or March payday according to the last communication.....

 

[PLY2AYS]

Its GWR I'm claiming from!

February or March payday according to the last communication.....

Ouch.

February or March seems ridiculous given their expediency with current employees.

I’m hopeful it’ll be sooner rather than later.

Appreciate your help! Curious to know if it’s only GWR that are being this slow, and whether those from other TOCs share this experience!

 

[chad66]

Former Southeastern Driver here!
Was considering starting a thread like this Myself, so thanks!
The response from SE to former employee's has been pretty poor.
A few of us who left at the same time have contacted payroll for updates and information.
Frist emails were sent end of September after the announcement of the pay award and we where asked to supply a few details at the time. We have not had any official response.
Replies to recent emails have stated leavers will likely receive back pay in the new year or working towards February but no actual formal confirmation
A former GA driver I know had a far better experience.They were kept up to date with the ongoing process, given a date and received their back pay in December
Totally understandable that there are alot of former drivers to get through however getting on for 6 months is poor in my opinion

 

[LCC106]

I did see something about drivers needing to contact their TOCs to apply to get the payment, so if your companies are proactively sorting it that’s a bonus!

 

[PLY2AYS]

Former Southeastern Driver here!
Was considering starting a thread like this Myself, so thanks!
The response from SE to former employee's has been pretty poor.
A few of us who left at the same time have contacted payroll for updates and information.
Frist emails were sent end of September after the announcement of the pay award and we where asked to supply a few details at the time. We have not had any official response.
Replies to recent emails have stated leavers will likely receive back pay in the new year or working towards February but no actual formal confirmation
A former GA driver I know had a far better experience.They were kept up to date with the ongoing process, given a date and received their back pay in December
Totally understandable that there are alot of former drivers to get through however getting on for 6 months is poor in my opinion

Glad the thread has reached those who are also curious/wanting to know more.

Sorry that you’ve been seemingly ignored by SE. I do hope that a resolution is reached soon.

There cannot be more leavers than there are current employees, so I’m struggling to see this as anything other than a form of weaponised incompetence or just simply ignoring the issue.

Sad to know I’m not on my own with this one, but pleased to know others have had more positive experiences with GA.

6 months is shocking. Especially since anything over ~£150 underpaid for current employees month to month in most TOCs warrants an emergency BACS payment.

 

[43066]

Former Southeastern Driver here!
Was considering starting a thread like this Myself, so thanks!
The response from SE to former employee's has been pretty poor.
A few of us who left at the same time have contacted payroll for updates and information.
Frist emails were sent end of September after the announcement of the pay award and we where asked to supply a few details at the time. We have not had any official response.
Replies to recent emails have stated leavers will likely receive back pay in the new year or working towards February but no actual formal confirmation
A former GA driver I know had a far better experience.They were kept up to date with the ongoing process, given a date and received their back pay in December
Totally understandable that there are alot of former drivers to get through however getting on for 6 months is poor in my opinion

No great surprise from SE. Absolute shower of a company.

 

[chad66]

No great surprise from SE. Absolute shower of a company.

Agreed, what a relief it was getting away!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2025 ==

Glad the thread has reached those who are also curious/wanting to know more.

Sorry that you’ve been seemingly ignored by SE. I do hope that a resolution is reached soon.

There cannot be more leavers than there are current employees, so I’m struggling to see this as anything other than a form of weaponised incompetence or just simply ignoring the issue.

Sad to know I’m not on my own with this one, but pleased to know others have had more positive experiences with GA.

6 months is shocking. Especially since anything over ~£150 underpaid for current employees month to month in most TOCs warrants an emergency BACS payment.

I just can't imagine it being that difficult to process, it's not like it was a massive surprise!

I think you could be right about it being weaponised!

But exactly as expected from SE unfortunately

Hoping former drivers from TOCs have received a better response..

 

[Class2ldn]

My last toc paid it no problem, contacted them and they paid me the same date the drivers at that toc got paid theres.
I was told we had to pro actively chase it ourselves with our last toc , was a quick and easy process tbf.

 

[chad66]

My last toc paid it no problem, contacted them and they paid me the same date the drivers at that toc got paid theres.
I was told we had to pro actively chase it ourselves with our last toc , was a quick and easy process tbf.

Good to hear!

I was assuming most TOCs would be on top of it to be honest, i thought it would've been a very straightforward process
Let's hope it's sorted for most asap!

 

[Economist]

At this rate, I'd rather receive backpay in the next financial year to be honest, I'm ex-SE and the amount they owe me is relatively small, it'd keep things more straightforward tax-wise.

 

[Snow1964]

As someone who has been involved in payroll in the past, it is a right faff adding someone, checking all details including bank manually calculating amount, entering it, running tax calls and adding to HMRC

Stupid idea to pay ex employees considering amount of admin it takes. Probably costs thousands to do and takes staff off other jobs

 

[43066]

As someone who has been involved in payroll in the past, it is a right faff adding someone, checking all details including bank manually calculating amount, entering it, running tax calls and adding to HMRC

Stupid idea to pay ex employees considering amount of admin it takes. Probably costs thousands to do and takes staff off other jobs

It might be a “right faff” but it’s their job at the end of the day, and the object of the exercise isn’t to make payroll’s life easier. Other TOCs have also managed to pay back pay to leavers far more quickly than SE have.

 

[philly1001]

I was told Feb payment from my previous toc due to the amount of claims to process

 

[LCC106]

As someone who has been involved in payroll in the past, it is a right faff adding someone, checking all details including bank manually calculating amount, entering it, running tax calls and adding to HMRC

Stupid idea to pay ex employees considering amount of admin it takes. Probably costs thousands to do and takes staff off other jobs

It’s money that the individuals are entitled to. It’s payroll’s job to process it.

 

[PLY2AYS]

As someone who has been involved in payroll in the past, it is a right faff adding someone, checking all details including bank manually calculating amount, entering it, running tax calls and adding to HMRC

Stupid idea to pay ex employees considering amount of admin it takes. Probably costs thousands to do and takes staff off other jobs

Heaven forbid people do what they are hired to do.

Heaven forbid they are paid commensurately for it.

I understand the frustration, but ultimately, it’s what they’re owed… and the companies knew this was coming. I just can’t get my head around how it would take 6 months to process.
That’s 6 months of interest on savings or debts that people are missing out on due to this hesitance.

 

[Snow1964]

Heaven forbid people do what they are hired to do.

Heaven forbid they are paid commensurately for it.

I understand the frustration, but ultimately, it’s what they’re owed… and the companies knew this was coming. I just can’t get my head around how it would take 6 months to process.
That’s 6 months of interest on savings or debts that people are missing out on due to this hesitance.

The point is if your HR and payroll teams are sized to deal with current number of employees. Then doing additional work requires extra staff hours.

Think about it, if the drivers don't want to do overtime (think cancellations due to lack of staff) then same lack of enthusiasm for overtime probably applies elsewhere.

Do you know how long it takes someone to be set up again, trawl through 3 years of grades and roles to work out how many days of each pay level. Its not like most ex employees are sending in spreadsheets of all their roles and pay rates for the period to speed up process. Someone has to pause their day job to process it. No wonder it can take months.

 

[43066]

The point is if your HR and payroll teams are sized to deal with current number of employees. Then doing additional work requires extra staff hours.

Think about it, if the drivers don't want to do overtime (think cancellations due to lack of staff) then same lack of enthusiasm for overtime probably applies elsewhere.

Do you know how long it takes someone to be set up again, trawl through 3 years of grades and roles to work out how many days of each pay level. Its not like most ex employees are sending in spreadsheets of all their roles and pay rates for the period to speed up process. Someone has to pause their day job to process it. No wonder it can take months.

So how come every other TOC has managed to do it far more quickly than SE?

Those existing teams managed to calculate and process the backpay for existing employees within a few weeks, much of which also had to be done manually, and they dwarf the number of leavers.

 

[PLY2AYS]

Do you know how long it takes someone to be set up again, trawl through 3 years of grades and roles to work out how many days of each pay level. Its not like most ex employees are sending in spreadsheets of all their roles and pay rates for the period to speed up process. Someone has to pause their day job to process it. No wonder it can take months.

Easily less than 6 months.

So how come every other TOC has managed to do it far more quickly than SE?

Case and point.

Companies like GWR (and presumably SE) have teams of resources and payroll. It isn’t one person.

The point is if your HR and payroll teams are sized to deal with current number of employees. Then doing additional work requires extra staff hours.

I thought your point was as below?

Stupid idea to pay ex employees considering amount of admin it takes. Probably costs thousands to do and takes staff off other jobs

Which sadly I wholly disagree with, because the overwhelming majority of your contributions on here I often find myself agreeing with, or at the very least helpful and insightful.

 

[REO Nate]

It is not a ‘stupid idea’ at all. This is money that has been earned and that people are entitled to. The argument against doing it because it is a ‘stupid idea’, is completely invalid.

 

[185]

I'm aware of one operator in particular that in two cases has flatly refused to pay the leaver's back-pay which the DfT agreed to. An informal communication from an MP led to Peter Hendy (Rail Minister) writing to the MP (formally) to apologise to the complainant constituent that the matter of failing to pay the back pay that the DfT agreed to was "a legal matter between the former employees and the operator concerned".

The HR Director responsible, who arrived from Virgin some years ago was said to have rolled his eyes repeatedly when challenged by the full time RMT rep. He's also used the company solicitors to threaten the ex-staff, I've seen one of the shut-up letters from Robinsons Solicitors.

- Hendy, did send a sympathetic letter, but to me he is a disappointment. When he WASN'T supposed to be threatening contractors, he was. Then, after GarethGate he got into trouble. So, now he's in a job where he's supposed to be threatening delinquent contractors, he's seemingly frightened of his own shadow.

 

[Snow1964]

It is not a ‘stupid idea’ at all. This is money that has been earned and that people are entitled to. The argument against doing it because it is a ‘stupid idea’, is completely invalid.

Yes paying adjustments to current employees should be quick, its reasonable and moral.

The stupid idea part relates to ex employees, is they didn't earn it (and didn't know the amount) whilst they were employed, they chose to leave whilst it was still zero as agreed back pay. Only after they left was it agreed to do something retrospective. If the person then says if I had received the rise earlier, I wouldn't have left, how do you untangle it, that's why it's not good idea. But of course if it was agreed then should be paid

Retrospective pay awards are not common, normal practice is to decide before pay change date. If you look at a million businesses will be tiny amount that have ever done it topsy turvey, and agree it after its implementation date.

 

[LCC106]

Retrospective pay awards ARE common on the railway. The Government tied the hands of the TOCs in terms of negotiation at the time. Those employees absolutely are entitled to the same pay as their colleagues for the same work at the same time. I don’t think anyone is suggesting people would have stayed on if they knew what they would be paid now. I’m guessing many of those leavers have retired.

 

[43066]

The stupid idea part relates to ex employees,

It wasn’t “stupid” it was just part of the decision to award backpay on industry standard terms, against a backdrop of wanting to reset industrial relations. So actually very much the logical thing to do.

You still haven’t answered why, if it’s such an onerous task to give back pay to leavers, every other TOC has managed to do so much more quickly than SE? It sounds like your real objection is that you personally don’t agree with back pay for leavers, for whatever reason

 

[REO Nate]

Some people switch TOCs to take up new roles and promotions, they didn’t leave because the pay was poor. Once the company and union enter into a dispute, that date is registered, the pay deal is then negotiated from that date. If people work beyond that date, they are entitled to back pay to the date the dispute started whether they left or not and the reason for leaving is a moot point.

 

[I_am_Nobody]

…It’s this kind of attitude from some staff that is really making the railway an unappealing place to work. It’s seeped into quite a few different departments in my neck of the woods, both operational and not, and I’m getting really irritated about it to the point of applying for non-railway jobs. Sigh.

 

[tiptoptaff]

…It’s this kind of attitude from some staff that is really making the railway an unappealing place to work. It’s seeped into quite a few different departments in my neck of the woods, both operational and not, and I’m getting really irritated about it to the point of applying for non-railway jobs. Sigh.

What attitude is that? "We're entitled to the money that's owed to us, and these employers have been poor in their delivery of it"?

Hardly a poor attitude really

 

[I_am_Nobody]

What attitude is that? "We're entitled to the money that's owed to us, and these employers have been poor in their delivery of it"?

Hardly a poor attitude really

No no! I wholly agree with that, and even have applied for back pay myself given I am entitled to it. I’m sick of quite the opposite attitude, “you don’t deserve the money even though you worked for it”. Also the “why should I do my job that I am paid to do” attitude.

ETA: …On rereading my original post could have done with more context. But alas; it was a quick reply done mid-interval from a theatre show. Hindsight!