Back in the day...

[CW2]

Going a bit OT but @D1511 or @D1537 might know:
Why were class 47s nicknamed Spoons? I only knew them as Duffs in the 1980s and 1990s.

I asked Google Gemini and got a very odd result: "The British Rail Class 47 locomotives were nicknamed "Spoons" because of the distinct sound of their horns, said to resemble the noise of a spoon being scraped against the side of a saucepan."

I believe it was because an enterprising second man (at Stratford?) discovered that in the absence of a driver's key the 47 could be started and driven using a normal household table spoon.
Possibly an urban legend?

 

[Harpo]

I believe it was because an enterprising second man (at Stratford?) discovered that in the absence of a driver's key the 47 could be started and driven using a normal household table spoon.

A natural successor to ‘Toffee Apples’.

 

[Sun Chariot]

@CW2 Urban legend or not, I bet class 47 owners and heritage railways alike, will nervously check for people accessing their locos armed with cutlery.

The Master Cutler(y)

 

[xotGD]

I thought it was because the power handle, or some other piece of in-cab equipment, resembles a Spoon?

Let's just stick to calling them Josephs, then everyone will be happy.

 

[sh24]

I thought it was because the power handle, or some other piece of in-cab equipment, resembles a Spoon?

Let's just stick to calling them Josephs, then everyone will be happy.

Never heard that one! Good to hear the theory about Spoon as that always baffled me.

 

[D6130]

thought it was because the power handle, or some other piece of in-cab equipment, resembles a Spoon?

The removable reversing handle in the first generation DMUs used be be referred to as the spoon when I was at Aylesbury.

I thought it was because the power handle, or some other piece of in-cab equipment, resembles a Spoon?

Let's just stick to calling them Josephs, then everyone will be happy.

Nothing to do with coats of many colours, I suppose?

 

[D1511]

Going a bit OT but @D1511 or @D1537 might know:
Why were class 47s nicknamed Spoons? I only knew them as Duffs in the 1980s and 1990s.

I asked Google Gemini and got a very odd result: "The British Rail Class 47 locomotives were nicknamed "Spoons" because of the distinct sound of their horns, said to resemble the noise of a spoon being scraped against the side of a saucepan."

I have to admit I'd never heard the term in my life before joining this forum a couple of years ago. I just assumed it was yet another derogatory term for the ubiquitous and reliable loco that was the 47.
Either it was a regional thing that didn't make it north of the border, or it came into being after I gave up in 1985.

 

[xotGD]

Nothing to do with coats of many colours, I suppose?

Strumbox -> Strummer -> Joe Strummer -> Joseph ( -> Sir Keith Joseph!)

Simples!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Strumbox -> Strummer -> Joe Strummer -> Joseph ( -> Sir Keith Joseph!)

And there was me thinking the hypotheses for Spoon were convoluted...

 

[D1537]

I was also under the impression it was a rather daft impression of the horn sound. I can remember youngsters (neds, we'd probably have called them then) shouting "spooooon" in silly high pitched voices when one sounded its horn.

Mind you, it wasn't like we didn't have derogatory names for many things that weren't 47s

 

[Sun Chariot]

I can still hear, in my mind, the lower horn tone followed by the "wheezing bagpipes" higher tone - a moment later, the "rush-chatter" noise, as the Sulzer revved up and the Serck slats opened. Happy memories.

 

[Bald Rick]

Saturday 20th August 1988
20197+20013 1E79 0718 Derby - Skegness
47204 1D22 1042 Skegness - Leeds (to Doncaster)
31466+31458 1J26 1310 Skegness - Sheffield (from Lincoln Central)
47660 1M32 1620 York - Birmingham New St (Sheffield to Derby)

Saturday 20 August 1988
87007 1G51 Coventry-B'ham NS
47425 1E26 B'ham NS-Sheffield
47204 1E47 Sheffield-Skegness (via Nottm)
47204 1N92 Skegness-Leeds (via Lincoln, 1D22 Skegness-Leeds extended to Newcastle)

May I be permitted to say “Snap!” ?

 

[barrowjack]

Saturday 20th August 1988.

Like a few others I was also off to Skegness, only difference being I was on a one way trip for a week at Butlins!. (unit numbers not recorded)

150xxx Barrow In Furness - Preston
86426 Preston - Crewe
1553xx Crewe - Derby
31411 Derby – Skegness (1E82 0939 Derby – Skegness)

 

[D1511]

Monday 20th August 1984

2O08 07.40 Edinburgh - Glasgow QS 47079 xi CF Haymarket - Glasgow QS
2O49 17.15 Glasgow QS - Edinburgh 47079 xi CF Glasgow QS - Haymarket
1Z83 13.05 Bristol TM - Edinburgh 20148 xo ED/20152 xo ED Haymarket - Edinburgh

 

[SW Rover]

May I be permitted to say “Snap!” ?

Yes I think this is the first for my posts. Thanks also to D1537 as I will need to update my records from 1D22 to 1N92 for 47204.

 

[Falcon1200]

Sunday 21st August 1983
47254 1055 Manchester Picc-Paddington (from Oxford)
47450 1730 Liverpool St-Norwich (to Colchester)

 

[D1511]

Saturday 21st August 1982

1E21 17.16 Edinburgh - Newcastle 47411 xd GD Edinburgh - Berwick
1S15 15.53 Carlisle - Edinburgh 37104 vo HM Berwick - Edinburgh

 

[AJM580]

Sunday 21 August 1988
150107 Llandudno Jn - Crewe (0850 Llandudno Jn - Crewe)
47571 Crewe - Birmingham NS via Shrewsbury & Wolverhampton (1G25 1010 Manchester Picc - Birmingham NS)
58028 Birmingham NS - Nuneaton (1A14 1248 Wolverhampton - Euston)
87025 Nuneaton - Rugby (1A14 1248 Wolverhampton - Euston)
86413 Rugby - Nuneaton (1G05 1400 Euston - Birmingham NS)
47656 Nuneaton - Birmingham NS (1G05 1400 Euston - Birmingham NS)
86430 Birmingham NS - Wolverhampton (1H47 1629 Birmingham NS - Manchester Picc)
86410 Wolverhampton - Crewe (1F41 1655 Birmingham NS - Liverpool Lime St)
47634 Crewe - Llandudno Jn (1D66 1705 Euston - Holyhead)

Saturday 21 August 1999

86232 Norwich - Liverpool Street (1P09 0600 Norwich - Liverpool Street)
456015 Victoria - Wandsworth Road (0840 Victoria - London Bridge)
456012 Wandsworth Road - London Bridge (1110 Victoria - London Bridge)
1101 London Bridge - Charing Cross (0929 Margate - Charing Cross)
47811 Paddington - Reading (1C37 1232 Paddington - Penzance)
D9000 Reading - Oxford (1S87 1210 Ramsgate - Glasgow Central)
47843 Oxford - Reading (1O38 0910 Edinburgh - Bournemouth)
43033 & 43034 Reading - Paddington (1A77 1550 Paignton - Paddington)
86220 Liverpool Street - Norwich (1P58 2030 Liverpool Street - Norwich)

 

[xotGD]

Saturday 21st August 1982

1E21 17.16 Edinburgh - Newcastle 47411 xd GD Edinburgh - Berwick
1S15 15.53 Carlisle - Edinburgh 37104 vo HM Berwick - Edinburgh

I'd been on 1S15 from Newcastle to Cramlington.

 

[Falcon1200]

Tuesday 22nd August 1995
37407 0750 Birmingham Int-Bangor (Crewe-Chester)
37420 0955 Crewe-Bangor (Chester-Rhyl)
37408 1023 Bangor-Crewe (Rhyl-Chester)
37429 1124 Crewe-Holyhead (Chester-Rhyl)
37414 1223 Bangor-Crewe (Rhyl-Crewe)

 

[Ant1966]

Saturday 20th August 1983
47706 1C97 2340 Edinburgh Waverley - Carstairs
I would now learn the costly lesson - 'Never join an overnight train when tired that goes beyond the boundary of your Rover'.
The plan was only to go to Carlisle and return north.
Fell asleep and luckily woke up during the stop in Preston Station! Did not even have the time to see what was hauling the train before it left.
8???? 1V61 2355 Glasgow Cen - Bristol TM (Carstairs to Preston)
All the northbound overnight trains had left so it was a long wait for the first train north!
81001 1S45 0750 Manchester Vic - Glasgow Cen (Preston to Carstairs)
47160 1G44 1122 Carstairs - Edinburgh Waverley (to Haymarket) HA Permit
47703 1O32 1300 Edinburgh Waverley - Glasgow Queen St (from Haymarket)
EMU Glasgow Cen - Motherwell (MW Permit but not allowed in!)
86210 1S85 0717 Harwich Parkeston Quay - Glasgow Central (from Motherwell)
87013 1M47 1720 Glasgow Central - Birmingham New St (to Carlisle)

Wednesday 20th August 1986
33212 1V46 0830 Brighton - Cardiff Central (Bath Spa to Bristol TM)
33212 1V62 1210 Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff Central (from Bristol TM)
33033 1O48 1810 Cardiff Central - Portsmouth Harbour (to Bristol TM)
33026 1O50 2145 Bristol TM - Southampton (to Bath Spa)

Saturday 20th August 1988
20197+20013 1E79 0718 Derby - Skegness
47204 1N92 1042 Skegness - Newcastle (to Doncaster) (1D22 Skegness-Leeds extended to Newcastle) Updated as#7,049 Thanks D1537
31466+31458 1J26 1310 Skegness - Sheffield (from Lincoln Central)
47660 1M32 1620 York - Birmingham New St (Sheffield to Derby)

You were very unlucky not to get round ML depot. My experience of Scottish depots in the late 70s early 80s was that you were let round almost all the time, permit or not! True of HA, ML, IS, ED, Millerhill, Polmadie, Ayr, Grangemouth. Heard that TJ could be dodgy, but for some reason never went there.
Biggest risk was the local wildlife at ED; "Dodgy area" doesnt do it justice. We used to aim for ED in the early morning, reduce the risk. Sure its lovely now..

 

[Falcon1200]

Tuesday 23rd August 1983
50038 0820 Liverpool LS-Paddington (from Oxford)
47051 1538 Carlisle-Edinburgh (from Newcastle)
27012 2017 Edinburgh-Dundee (to Inverkeithing)
47704 2130 Edinburgh-Glasgow QS (to Haymarket)
47420 1920 Aberdeen-Kings X (Haymarket-Edinburgh)
47468 2310 Edinburgh-Inverness

 

[SW Rover]

You were very unlucky not to get round ML depot. My experience of Scottish depots in the late 70s early 80s was that you were let round almost all the time, permit or not! True of HA, ML, IS, ED, Millerhill, Polmadie, Ayr, Grangemouth. Heard that TJ could be dodgy, but for some reason never went there.
Biggest risk was the local wildlife at ED; "Dodgy area" doesnt do it justice. We used to aim for ED in the early morning, reduce the risk. Sure its lovely now..

ML was the only refusal that week. We had permits for St Rollox, ED, HA, AB, IS, MH and AY. Some even gave us a guided tour and offered a hot drink. All very friendly as we did not know what to expect.
I don't remember any issues with local wildlife but we could have done with a translator at Ayr and just ended up nodding.
My local major depots at the time were BR and CF. No chance of going round those so Scotland was a great experience for a 16 year old spotter.

 

[Ant1966]

ML was the only refusal that week. We had permits for St Rollox, ED, HA, AB, IS, MH and AY. Some even gave us a guided tour and offered a hot drink. All very friendly as we did not know what to expect.
I don't remember any issues with local wildlife but we could have done with a translator at Ayr and just ended up nodding.
My local major depots at the time were BR and CF. No chance of going round those so Scotland was a great experience for a 16 year old spotter.

A translator, LOL.
Indeed, Scotland was great!
BR impossible and no 'back way' in. Seem to remember a footbridge at Canton, you could get some numbers from there I think? Though my memory isnt so good these days...

 

[D6130]

You were very unlucky not to get round ML depot. My experience of Scottish depots in the late 70s early 80s was that you were let round almost all the time, permit or not! True of HA, ML, IS, ED, Millerhill, Polmadie, Ayr, Grangemouth. Heard that TJ could be dodgy, but for some reason never went there.
Biggest risk was the local wildlife at ED; "Dodgy area" doesnt do it justice. We used to aim for ED in the early morning, reduce the risk. Sure its lovely now..

In my experience Shields and Townhill were absolute no-nos. Haymarket could be 50-50 if you didn't have a permit....depending which foreman was on duty. The new depot at Tom-na-Faire, Fort William was also somewhat lacking in Highland hospitality, although the old one (pre-1973) was a doddle. Everywhere else was open house so long as you asked at the office first.

 

[Falcon1200]

During our family holiday in Scotland in 1975, I got round Haymarket, Millerhill, Inverness and Fort William without permits - The last IIRC on a Sunday when the whole depot was deserted! I was 15.....

We didn't go anywhere near Glasgow as the city then was not a tourist destination, unlike today, so did not have to brave the mean streets of Springburn.

 

[D1511]

Never once got refused at a Scottish depot in all my spotting days in the late 70s and very early 80s. I think my camera and Doc Martins helped. (They'd always check your footwear at MH before letting you round)
You always needed a permit for St Rollox works, but it was easy to get one and it was cheap. They always gave you loads of stickers at St Rollox back then.....I even remember getting full size loco numbers once as well as the usual data panels, allocation stickers and all sorts of stickers for coaches.

Thursday 23rd August 1984

2O08 07.40 Edinburgh - Glasgow QS 47610 xe ED Haymarket - Glasgow QS
1E87 11.20 Glasgow C - Harwich PQ 87026 ae WN Glasgow C - Carstairs
1G53 13.14 Carstairs - Edinburgh 47367 xos CD Carstairs - Edinburgh

 

[D6130]

Never once got refused at a Scottish depot in all my spotting days in the late 70s and very early 80s. I think my camera and Doc Martins helped. (They'd always check your footwear at MH before letting you round)
You always needed a permit for St Rollox works, but it was easy to get one and it was cheap. They always gave you loads of stickers at St Rollox back then.....I even remember getting full size loco numbers once as well as the usual data panels, allocation stickers and all sorts of stickers for coaches.

Thursday 23rd August 1984

2O08 07.40 Edinburgh - Glasgow QS 47610 xe ED Haymarket - Glasgow QS
1E87 11.20 Glasgow C - Harwich PQ 87026 ae WN Glasgow C - Carstairs
1G53 13.14 Carstairs - Edinburgh 47367 xos CD Carstairs - Edinburgh

Aye....forgot to mention Millerhill. Never had a problem get round there.

 

[Falcon1200]

Wednesday 24th August 1983
37261 0640 Inverness-Wick (to Dingwall)
37260 0655 Inverness-Kyle (Dingwall-Achnasheen)
37114 0710 Kyle-Inverness (Achnasheen-Dingwall)
37035 0600 Wick-Inverness (from Dingwall)
47586 1020 Inverness-Glasgow QS
37027 1823 Glasgow QS-Oban (to Dumbarton C)
47209 1920 Aberdeen-Kings X (Haymarket-Edinburgh)
47711 2230 Edinburgh-Glasgow QS (to Haymarket)
27010 2120 Dundee-Edinburgh (from Haymarket)
47509 2030 Aberdeen-Kings X (Edinburgh-Peterborough)

 

[CW2]

The recent demise of 67003 prompted me to look back into the archives to see if I’d had any particularly memorable runs with it. Let me take you back to the August Bank Holiday weekend of 2007 …

Friday 24/08/07
390 041 07:46 Rugby – Euston
Friday was a normal working day, but word reached me at work that 90039 was going to be working to Preston that afternoon. (The Bank Holiday weekend timetable was heavily amended due to WCRM engineering work). I had already planned to take a half day as I had to reach Carlisle for a hotel overnight. The appearance of 90039 simplified the route choices considerably:
90039 13:43 Euston – Preston
185 135 16:29 Preston – Lancaster
142 061 16:52 Lancaster – Gargrave
158 902 18:46 Gargrave – Carlisle
I think that is the only time I have ever alighted or boarded at Gargrave.

Saturday 25/08/07
The main event …
40145 06:16 Carlisle – Fort William via G&SW, Rutherglen East, Glasgow Central Low Level, Singer.
57601 was on the rear of the 10-coach train, and provided assistance from Craigendoran to Crianlarich.
We arrived in Fort William 50 minutes late, which meant there was no time to reverse the locos as planned, so for the return we had:
57601 (+ 40145 on rear, not powering) 15:50 Fort William – Craigendoran Jn.
At Craigendoran Jn the 40 was run round to the front of the train, and 57601 was then shut down.
40145 (+57601 dead) 20:27 Craigendoran Jn – Carlisle via Singer, Glasgow Central Low Level, Rutherglen East, G&SW.

Sunday 26/08/07
After another night in Carlisle, it’s time for Round 2:
390 003 1046 Carlisle – Rugby
Home for a quick change of clothes, then:
90039 (yes that loco again) 17:47 Rugby – Euston
For some reason this ran via the crossover at Hillmorton, which was still quite a novelty at the time.
The purpose of this trip was to cover the Scottish sleeper services from Euston. Due to a combination of ECML and WCML engineering works, these were scheduled to be diverted via the ECML, and diesel hauled as far as Peterborough. There was a strong chance that one of the “Royal” 67s would be involved, and as I still needed 67006 for haulage, I hoped that might appear. My luck was in immediately:
67006 20:13 Euston – Wembley Yard (+90028 and 67003 providing ETH on rear)
67003 20:40 Wembley Yard – Peterborough (+90028 dead + 67006 providing ETH on rear) via Gospel Oak, Camden Road, Kings Cross Incline, Welwyn Garden City
The Highland Sleeper was load 16 Mk 3s, so 67003 was working flat out to haul load 16 plus two dead locos all the way to Peterborough. That remains the heaviest load I’ve ever had with a 67. Progress was not at all swift! (At this stage, DB hadn’t figured out how to get 67s to provide ETH in multiple, hence this odd lash-up involving a 67 on either end, both providing ETH, and the cables uncoupled half way along the train).
At Peterborough, both 67s were detached, through cabling restored, and 90028 took over. It soon set about regaining the time lost by 67003.
90028 22:55 Peterborough – Edinburgh Waverley

Monday 27/08/07
I was in the Fort William portion of the sleepers, so I was off to Fort William for the second time that weekend.
67007 05:00 Edinburgh Waverley – Fort William via Falkirk High, Cowlairs North/East curve, Westerton.
A fill-in kettle move:
5407 10:20 Fort William – Mallaig
5407 14:10 Mallaig – Fort William
Time for refreshments in Fort Bill, then back to the sleeper once more:
67007 19:50 Fort William – Edinburgh Waverley via Westerton, Cowlairs East/North curve, Falkirk High

Tuesday 28/08/07
90028 01:17 Edinburgh Waverley – London Euston via WCML
… and straight into work.

I would have preferred it if 67006 had been leading from Wembley to Peterborough, as that remains my lowest mileage 67 to this day. However, it was 67003 (RIP) which did the honours (and took its time doing so). Farewell 67003. You were a key performer as part of a memorable weekend.