Axminister redoubling

[The Planner]

Thats purely supply and demand though. Give Honiton, Axminster and Yeovil faster and more frequent services, you'd expect Tivi Parkway to tail off.

 

[SWT Driver]

Well you can hardly expect to have loads of passengers use it when until the December TT change it was a bi-hourly service, that's hardly going to be attractive to anyone.

With the service being increased to hourly then it does become more attractive, the one thing that should be borne in mind is that TVP has high speed links to not only Taunton, but Bristol, The Midlands, Wales, Scotland as well as London.

The Exeter - Waterloo line is just that Exeter - Waterloo, what it needs is FGW to supplement the SWT services, so you could have a service from Westbury - Exeter via Yeovil Pen Mill that way you're going to stimulate the demand for alternative destinations.

SWT are crowing about the reduction in journey times, well that's a complete & uttelr load of bull$hi7, as all that's been removed is some of the sit around time on some services, I know that one or two that I've been on have sat at Chard for 10' or so, so why not sling a station in there too & benefit that area.

 

[fgwrich]

Don't be silly....

You should know by now that the railway & common sense are completely incompatible with each other. :roll:

Perhaps you should make the suggestion to DaFT and see what answer you get!

BTW, just out of interest if the loop were extended in that direction to link up with the other one how long would the loop then be?

If the loop was extended eastwards to the former Chard Junction, itd be roughly 4 miles...thus making a 7 miles loop...and actually making a real difference...

Of course one problem youd have trying to double the route by 9 miles up to honiton, would be the A35 road bridge up near wilmington...built with the road in mind and enough clearance for a single line only...

Well you can hardly expect to have loads of passengers use it when until the December TT change it was a bi-hourly service, that's hardly going to be attractive to anyone.

With the service being increased to hourly then it does become more attractive, the one thing that should be borne in mind is that TVP has high speed links to not only Taunton, but Bristol, The Midlands, Wales, Scotland as well as London.

The Exeter - Waterloo line is just that Exeter - Waterloo, what it needs is FGW to supplement the SWT services, so you could have a service from Westbury - Exeter via Yeovil Pen Mill that way you're going to stimulate the demand for alternative destinations.

SWT are crowing about the reduction in journey times, well that's a complete & uttelr load of bull$hi7, as all that's been removed is some of the sit around time on some services, I know that one or two that I've been on have sat at Chard for 10' or so, so why not sling a station in there too & benefit that area.

RE Reduction in journey times...Again its kind of what you said about my suggestion about extending the loop east & westwards...The Idea that makes sense to the real world, but not to the ministers etc...but yes, i agree that a station at Chard would be good for the local area...

Thinking about it, wasnt there talk of re-introducing a station at chard earlier this year?

As for the FGW bit...How about putting in or re-opening a chord from the souther side at Yeovil Junction, so in theory you could then create something like a Weymouth to Exeter service...

RE Wating times...Another thing i hate about travelling with SWT Along that route...Last night we took the 19:15 service back...which runs from exeter central to Honiton non stop...then has a 21 minute[25 minutes last night!] wait in the station for the up exeter service to clear the single line section...then calls all stations to basingstoke...

As for taking that route...Im with you on that one SWT Driver...The only times i use that route to get to devon is when im with a freind of mine and we can use up the SWT Freebee Tickets he gets from his season ticket...otherwise i take the faster, more reliable and quite frankly far better service via reading to exeter...

 

[gigarailer 123]

There is a article in this months modern railways mag

 

[Chafford1]

Using South West Trains excellent create your own timetable facility, here's the new hourly timetable:

 

[SWT Driver]

It's still a crap timetable.

I'll still travel via Reading to the WoE, easier, quicker, more comfortable.

Hell will freeze over before I travel on the SWT WoE service, in fact there's only one way I'd travel on it and that's if I were based in Sarum, which I'm not.

 

[Oliver]

It's still a crap timetable.

I'll still travel via Reading to the WoE, easier, quicker, more comfortable.

Hell will freeze over before I travel on the SWT WoE service, in fact there's only one way I'd travel on it and that's if I were based in Sarum, which I'm not.

Well I use Honiton - Waterloo regularly. In the new timetable the times are regular and typically the journey is around 20 minutes faster. Sounds like a step in the right direction to me. Only disappointment is that the last down train is still 20:20.

 

[SWT Driver]

It's not faster. You could buy a cheaper ticket via EXD & get there quicker via EXD & RDG,

All that's happened is that the amount of padding due to the long single line sections has been reduced slightly.

If one train runs late then it'll still have to wait for the single line section to become free, there's only one way to get the WAT-EXD journey times down & that's to double track:
Wilton Jn -Tisbury (approx 10miles)
Gillingham - Templecombe (approx 7,7 miles) that would give about 17 miles of double line from Gillingham - Yeovil, if you then extend the Axminster loop North to Chard Junction (approx 3,75 miles) & West to Honiton (approx 9,5 miles) which gives a total of approx 30 miles of double track.

If this were done then there's a possibility of getting a 30' service to the WoE that then makes it competitive against FGW, as you could have a proper fast & slow service.

To my mind the doubling of these sections should be made a requirement of the next franchise.

 

[fgwrich]

& West to Honiton (approx 9,5 miles) which gives a total of approx 30 miles of double track.

To my mind the doubling of these sections should be made a requirement of the next franchise.

As much as id love to agree with you...i can and will bar one point...and for that, you can thank the roads...

The A35 Road Bridge just outside of Wilmington...Rebuilt to increase road speeds and remove a kink in the road...thing is...when it was rebuilt, the new bridge was built with a Single Track mainline below...and is unfortunatly out of guage for a double track...

So much for Co-operation and consideration when that was rebuilt:roll:

Having said that, theres no reason why the route couldnt be redoubled all the way up to seaton junction, then sinlge up the bank and double again from Wilmington-honiton...Or perhaps using sprung points either side of the bridge? - if thats still aceptable for modern railways..or will HSE not like it?


But Honiton to Pinhoe shouldnt be much of a problem, Fair enough it'd involve quite abit of track slinging, but if the money was avlible, then why not include that in the franchise...

But i still agree with SWT Driver, that the only way the West Of England Line can and could ever compete with the Faster and far better FGW Services is to double large sections of track and increase linespeeds...

Speaking of the WOE, and slightly off this topic, but as there has or had been talk of a station at Wilton, just outside of Salisbury, Why not build it at just outside of Quidhampton, thus serving both the west of england line and the Salisbury - Bristol line, and acting as a Park & Ride for Salisbury

And Conveniently the A36 which is one of the main roads heading into salisbury from the west... So a Park & Ride station at Wilton/Quidhampton for Salisbury would be logical...

Something Else that should be included in the next Franchise renewal...

 

[SWT Driver]

Can't have a station to serve both lines or the nice Retail Outlet at Wilton either...

It's much to sensible, definitely not allowed you might get demoted to a..Erm
Moderator!

 

[fgwrich]

Can't have a station to serve both lines or the nice Retail Outlet at Wilton either...

It's much to sensible, definitely not allowed you might get demoted to a..Erm
Moderator!

Seems a great shame that common sense flows quite well on here...and unfortunatly not in the rail industry...

 

[LondonLarry]

Speaking of the WOE, and slightly off this topic, but as there has or had been talk of a station at Wilton, just outside of Salisbury, Why not build it at just outside of Quidhampton, thus serving both the west of england line and the Salisbury - Bristol line, and acting as a Park & Ride for Salisbury

The only new station on the WoE line will be Cranbrook (between Pinhoe and Whimple)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well I use Honiton - Waterloo regularly. In the new timetable the times are regular and typically the journey is around 20 minutes faster. Sounds like a step in the right direction to me. Only disappointment is that the last down train is still 20:20.

There is a 2115 on Sundays....

 

[Drsatan]

Using South West Trains excellent create your own timetable facility, here's the new hourly timetable:

What? There are no off-peak trains in either direction from Grately, Whitchurch and Overton??? Yet there's a 2-hourly service for those stations on Sundays?:-x The inhabitants of those towns are going to get a very nasty shock come 11 December

 

[SWT Driver]

Because that timetable is specific to Waterloo - Exeter services, not local Salisbury services.

The Waterloo - Exeter services should all be fasts Woking, Basingstoke, Andover, Salisbury, all day, none of this local stuff during the peaks to serve the "influential" people, they have the local service available & it were timetabled correctly then it would mean very little if any difference in journey times for the minor stations.

 

[Drsatan]

Because that timetable is specific to Waterloo - Exeter services, not local Salisbury services.

The Waterloo - Exeter services should all be fasts Woking, Basingstoke, Andover, Salisbury, all day, none of this local stuff during the peaks to serve the "influential" people, they have the local service available & it were timetabled correctly then it would mean very little if any difference in journey times for the minor stations.

OK sorry

 

[SWT Driver]

Post Deleted.

 

[Chafford1]

It's not faster. You could buy a cheaper ticket via EXD & get there quicker via EXD & RDG,

All that's happened is that the amount of padding due to the long single line sections has been reduced slightly.

If one train runs late then it'll still have to wait for the single line section to become free, there's only one way to get the WAT-EXD journey times down & that's to double track:
Wilton Jn -Tisbury (approx 10miles)
Gillingham - Templecombe (approx 7,7 miles) that would give about 17 miles of double line from Gillingham - Yeovil, if you then extend the Axminster loop North to Chard Junction (approx 3,75 miles) & West to Honiton (approx 9,5 miles) which gives a total of approx 30 miles of double track.

If this were done then there's a possibility of getting a 30' service to the WoE that then makes it competitive against FGW, as you could have a proper fast & slow service.

To my mind the doubling of these sections should be made a requirement of the next franchise.

I agree. but it'll only happen if the next franchisee is given a 15 or 20 year franchise - then we may see something like Evergreen 3.

The 16.20 from Waterloo has no less than 19 stops before it reaches Exeter St Davids - a marked contrast from the Atlantic Coast Express which ran to a 2h 56min timing (Dec 2009 fastest 3h 19min) from Waterloo to Exeter Central with stops at Salisbury and Sidmouth Junction (now Feniton) - however the 159s would easily be able to achieve or exceed this timing, given further improvements to the infrastructure.

 

[devon_metro]

At the end of the day though, The Exeter - Waterloo mainline will never be able to compete with the far superior GWR line in terms of speed. The main market is intermediate journeys and it would really defeat the object of the line.

Paddington - Exeter can be done in 1h55 without too much effort. (including a stop at Reading)

 

[Chafford1]

At the end of the day though, The Exeter - Waterloo mainline will never be able to compete with the far superior GWR line in terms of speed. The main market is intermediate journeys and it would really defeat the object of the line.

Paddington - Exeter can be done in 1h55 without too much effort. (including a stop at Reading)

No reason why a 2h 45min timing couldn't be achieved if a fast/stopping pattern was introduced along with further infrastsructure enhancements.

 

[SWT Driver]

PAD-EXD used to be 1h40/45, but that was on the Up/Down Riviera and then it was NON STOP from PAD to EXD/PLY & vv.

Makes the 1h55 look a tad sick.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No reason why a 2h 45min timing couldn't be achieved if a fast/stopping pattern was introduced along with further infrastsructure enhancements.

Has anyone noticed that you can't go from Pinhoe to Whimple/Feniton or vv in the December change?

What could be done is FGW/SWT could share it, which would be an ideal solution to the traincrew route knowledge problem & accelerate certain services.

FGW could run a local service to say Westbury/Melksham & Swindon via Honiton & Yeovil PM, opens up new journey opportunities & keeps the route knowledge available, in fact with FGW getting HSS & West drivers together in the not too distant future, it would increase the available route knowledge availability & improve reliability, especially when the line between EXD & TAU gets flooded.

 

[devon_metro]

No reason why a 2h 45min timing couldn't be achieved if a fast/stopping pattern was introduced along with further infrastsructure enhancements.

But its still miles off even the slowest journey via the berks & hants, what would be the point?

 

[SWT Driver]

It's called competition.

Whilst FGW may have the edge when it comes to speed & journey times, SWT has the edge when it comes to cost, which some people particularly those on a budget take into consideration.

What SWT needs to consider doing is for stations like Feniton, Whimple & Pinhoe, is serve them every 2 hours and to extend the Salisbury local service to Yeovil, which would allow the Exeter service to omit some calls every couple of hours.

 

[Chafford1]

Latest from Network Rail website:

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/content/detail.aspx?ReleaseID=4733&NewsAreaID=2&SearchCategoryID=7

 

[Chafford1]

New Waterloo - Exeter timetable for 2010:


http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/uploads/ptt20[0].pdf

 

[SWT Driver]

Anyone notice how crap the Waterloo-Exeter timetable really is?

No direct services between Pinhoe Feniton & Whimple BAR 0510, 0641 & 0826, departures from EXD, the next one to do it isn't until 1746 (1726 SO), then 2257! (Just two do it on Sunday 0926 & 2126!

In the down direction it's 0615 ex-Yeovil, 0608 (0615 SO) & 0740 (0745 SO) ex-Sarum do it, the next ones are the 1920 & 2020 ex-Waterloo.

On Sunday you have the utterly bizarre stopping pattern of on the Even Hour departures from Waterloo, trains call Clapham, Woking, B'stoke, Overton, Whitchurch, Andover, Salisbury & stations to Exeter, so it's no longer possible to go from Whitchurch to Grately on a Sunday without enduring a 55/56 min wait at Andover for the next one.

Dumb & absolutely stupid. Either SWT want people to use the train or they don't.

TBH, the sooner the franchise is taken away from Stagecoach & the Souter the better.

 

[dk1]

Anyone notice how crap the Waterloo-Exeter timetable really is?

No direct services between Pinhoe Feniton & Whimple BAR 0510, 0641 & 0826, departures from EXD, the next one to do it isn't until 1746 (1726 SO), then 2257! (Just two do it on Sunday 0926 & 2126!

In the down direction it's 0615 ex-Yeovil, 0608 (0615 SO) & 0740 (0745 SO) ex-Sarum do it, the next ones are the 1920 & 2020 ex-Waterloo.

Dumb & absolutely stupid. Either SWT want people to use the train or they don't.

TBH, the sooner the franchise is taken away from Stagecoach & the Souter the better.

I suppose they are trying to make the best use of the single line sections & to be fair Pinhoe in particular is not that well used according to statistics. The majority must be travelling to/from Exeter or towards London which leaves very few for neighbouring local stations. With recoucses avilable something has to give & i still feel a token service West of Exeter could still have been done.

 

[Chafford1]

Not SWT's fault. It's remarkable they can run the service they do over such limited infrastructure.

However, now that Cranbrook has been given the go ahead, together with new station, I'm wondering whether we'll see the proposed redoubling at Whimple.

 

[royaloak]

I still feel a token service West of Exeter could still have been done.

SWT wanted to carry on with the paigntons/Plymouths but the DaFT wouldnt let them.
cynic mode-
handy ORCATS raid?

 

[LondonLarry]

Not SWT's fault. It's remarkable they can run the service they do over such limited infrastructure.

However, now that Cranbrook has been given the go ahead, together with new station, I'm wondering whether we'll see the proposed redoubling at Whimple.

I doubt it - the December 2009 timetable already takes into account a stop at Cranbrook.

 

[Chafford1]

I doubt it - the December 2009 timetable already takes into account a stop at Cranbrook.

I can't see the aspiration for a regular local service between Axminster and Exeter being achieved without further redoubling - if this happened Pinhoe, Cranbrook, Whimple and Feniton could be served by the local service with the Waterloo - Exeter trains missing out these stops.

It doesn't make sense to me that 159 starting a 171 mile journey from Exeter Central to Waterloo has to stop at Pinhoe!