Axe the FreshAir Express

[yorkie]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6289761.stm

A review is ongoing into the future of the non-stop rail service from Gatwick Airport to London Victoria.

Government proposals are looking at possibly replacing the Gatwick Express with a stopping service in south London, Surrey and Sussex.

Andrew Pelling, the Conservative MP for Central Croydon, said it would "free up much needed track space".

Mr Pelling said commuter trains on the Brighton to London line were currently "more heavily used" than the Gatwick Express.

Axe it, I say!

I've got Gatwick Express a few times (on "Any Permitted" through Savers; there's no way I'd pay their own silly fares), and it's been very easy to get a carriage to yourself, with half the train completely empty and the other half not even full. Meanwhile, at the same time, packed Southern services are being delayed due to the capacity demands of the Gatwick Express.

On my last trip the journey took 31 minutes - this is almost identical to the Southern journey time, and we spent several minutes blocking the Up Fast while waiting for a platform (or were we waiting for a train on the Down Fast?).

If GatEx is to be kept, then Gatwick station needs to be rebuilt, because the present situation is absolutely ludicrous, with these wasteful trains waiting to cross the paths of other trains in order to get in the platform.

I can't think of anywhere else in the country where there are so many conflicting moves and concequent delays caused as a result of such a sparsely used service running on the same line as extremely busy trains.

As King's Cross/St Pancras grows in importance, it would make sense to run more trains there. Thameslink 2000 could provide the necessary capacity through the Capital. Taking Gatwick Express doesn't save any time whatsoever on a journey from the North to Gatwick and beyond, IMO.

Get rid!

 

[Craig]

I thought the idea of extending the service to Brighton had already been proposed? IMO that would be better than the current service provided that the London - Gatwick time remained more or less the same and there was a prolonged stop to allow people to board with luggage.

 

[Tom C]

Well I have to agree Yorkie, the service runs around empty off peak and is only busy during peak times with commuters using seasons with Any Permitted which were not that far off the Not Gatwick Express price (at at least were??). The fares are just so much more than Southern and Thameslink prices added to the fact that the Southern and Thameslink services are so regular means the extra money is just not worth it.

I have often had people coming up at Gatwick asking to buy tickets for the Express and I do everything to persuade them to use Southern or Thameslink just to save them a few bob and so far I have never had to sell a Gat Ex ticket.

IF they made the express go further to Brighton or anywhere else on the coast and IF the fares were the same price regardless of the train used and IF the service was operated by Southern then I could maybe see the point in keeping a service which runs non stop from Victoria to Gatwick but to be honest I would pull the plug and run more services serving Gatwick to the coast. The only problem is that without the Gatwick Express I can see the fares on both Southern and Thameslink going up because both offer TOC specific fares which they would no longer need without competition.

Actually bring back the 73's and Mk2's and I would use it everytime

 

[Techniquest]

I like Gatwick Express! Much rather get that to the airport than a 377!

There's something about those Vaders that I just love! And yes, I have bashed one, two of them at that. Very comfortable, very enjoyable!

 

[WessexWarrior]

I like Gatwick Express! Much rather get that to the airport than a 377!

There's something about those Vaders that I just love! And yes, I have bashed one, two of them at that. Very comfortable, very enjoyable!

Agreed on all counts. The Gatwick Express is so much easier than other means of transport for those without a car, or who have travelled on a train to get to London and can carry their journey on by rail.

 

[1VWC]

I thought the idea of extending the service to Brighton had already been proposed? IMO that would be better than the current service provided that the London - Gatwick time remained more or less the same and there was a prolonged stop to allow people to board with luggage.

I agree with that, but also have a dedicated GatEx service during the peaks as the Brighton trains and the Gatwick Express both load extremely well during these times.

 

[yorkie]

Agreed on all counts. The Gatwick Express is so much easier than other means of transport for those without a car, or who have travelled on a train to get to London and can carry their journey on by rail.

Not if you arrive into King's Cross. It's easier to change onto Thameslink at King's Cross, and stay on the same train through to Gatwick, than faff about with the tube.

And from Liverpool Street, it's (almost) cross platform at Farringdon so Thameslink is by far the best option if you have luggage, completely avoiding escalators.

If you arrive into London Bridge than Thameslink is the only sensible option.

Those arriving at Waterloo would find it a lot easier to change at Clapham - but the Gatwick Express is no use as it doesn't call there.

So for most people Thameslink/Southern is probably more convenient.

But I do concede you're right for passengers arriving at Euston, Marylebone, and Paddington - Victoria for Gatwick Express is probably easier in those cases.

 

[theblackwatch]

It should be extended through to Brighton, stopping at East Croydon, then Gatwick.

My view is similar - I think a sensible option would be to run a Victoria-Brighton service every 15 minutes, using a 10 car unit - the front 5 working through to Brighton, and the rear 5 (modified with extra luggage space) detached at Gatwick Airport. On the Gatwick-London leg, the unit from Birghton would couple on to the rear of the Gatwick-London unit in the platform at Gatwick which would be waiting in the platform, and this would mean passengers from the airport would still be able to get on a train, suitably modified to cater for those with lots of baggage which was not already full of passengers.

I can even think of a fleet of 5-car units which would be suitable for this purpose....

 

[Jim]

I can even think of a fleet of 5-car units which would be suitable for this purpose....

442's I presume?


The problem with that would be that they would need someone to uncouple & couple the units (a good 5 min task somedays!) on the wessies, which would mean a big chunk of slack would go in the TT, but do however agree with your general idea!

 

[richa2002]

442's I presume?


The problem with that would be that they would need someone to uncouple & couple the units (a good 5 min task somedays!) on the wessies, which would mean a big chunk of slack would go in the TT, but do however agree with your general idea!

Funny how the thought of coupling and uncoupling a train fills the rail industry with horror in this country.

 

[thefab444]

Funny how the thought of coupling and uncoupling a train fills the rail industry with horror in this country.

You're not accustomed to the 442s I take it?

 

[theblackwatch]

442's I presume?


The problem with that would be that they would need someone to uncouple & couple the units (a good 5 min task somedays!) on the wessies, which would mean a big chunk of slack would go in the TT, but do however agree with your general idea!

Admittedly, it would require an extra three or four minutes to do this - it shouldn't take longer than 5 minutes to do this, as this what is given to the 442s at Bournemouth when they couple/uncouple there.

Any yes, I was referring to 442s!

 

[Tom]

4 mins is given in ROTP for 442 coupling/uncoupling.

 

[Jim]

4 mins is given in ROTP for 442 coupling/uncoupling.

And it normally takes that at BMO, not as bad at Soton, as you don't need to check the train for straglers

 

[Nick W]

But I do concede you're right for passengers arriving at Euston, Marylebone, and Paddington - Victoria for Gatwick Express is probably easier in those cases.

And if there was no cross platform at oxford circus, you might as well take the Hot and Cold to farringdon.

I don't know why the gatwick expresses doesn't form the fastest service to brighton.

 

[AlexS]

Probably because if its already busy at peak times, commuters would destroy the point of it?