Axe looms for Highland station with just 76 passengers year

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think that it would be a problem as long as it were properly designed (and to be honest, Kildonan isn't the kind of station that someone who was severely mobility limited wouldb likely be using by themselves).

It's more of an issue that it needs to be able to be proved working remotely or else trains would need to slow down anyway.

Having it "fail safe" is the way to do that. Bulb lit = no stop requested. Bulb dark = failed or stop requested. And some kind of feedback on the button itself.

Unsurprisingly the Swiss have something like this I'd also like to see bus style stop buttons on trains rather than having to find the guard.

 

[najaB]

Having it "fail safe" is the way to do that. Bulb lit = no stop requested. Bulb dark = failed or stop requested. And some kind of feedback on the button itself.

That's pretty much what I had in mind, but that's more wiring, electricity supplies, etc. instead of just closing a station that only really remained open because of the crossing.

 

[HSTEd]

The crossing will require power supplies anyway and is adjacent to the station

 

[najaB]

The crossing will require power supplies anyway and is adjacent to the station

The station is on a curve on what is otherwise a 50 to 60mph stretch of track. If the intention is for trains to not have to slow significantly it would require the advance warning signal to be some distance from the station. It's not impossible by any stretch of the imagination, just a waste of money.

 

[alex17595]

Borrobol station had a request stop signal in the form of a semaphore. Not sure if any other station had these,

 

[Elwyn]

Where would a request button stand from a DDA perspective

This is not a showstopper. Having had to take the DDA into account as an employer, I recall that the key phrase in most of the legislation is that employers and service providers have to make a “reasonable adjustment” to support people with disabilities or other special needs. What is acceptable varies from situation to situation. It poses insurmountable problems for tourist facilities such as ancient castles and some stately homes. Or coastal paths and so on. But the courts will recognise that, and won’t be harsh if the cost of making a DDA adjustment is astronomical or disproportionate.

Only the courts can say whether a reasonable adjustment has been made, but for a railway station with 76 passengers a year, I don’t think the threshold would be too high. Positioning the request button 3 foot off the ground and again at 5 foot off the ground, together with a help button might well satisfy the courts and DDA agencies.

The sensible thing to do is to engage with charities and NGOs with interests in the DDA field, and seek their views. Incorporate them where reasonable, but don’t let the DDA block the idea in principle.

 

[najaB]

Only the courts can say whether a reasonable adjustment has been made, but for a railway station with 76 passengers a year, I don’t think the threshold would be too high.

It's also quite remote (Google Maps link) so it's highly unlikely that someone for whom the DDA is relevant would be using it unaided.

 

[najaB]

Borrobol station had a request stop signal in the form of a semaphore. Not sure if any other station had these,

Was it passenger operated?

 

[HSTEd]

The station is on a curve on what is otherwise a 50 to 60mph stretch of track. If the intention is for trains to not have to slow significantly it would require the advance warning signal to be some distance from the station. It's not impossible by any stretch of the imagination, just a waste of money.

The obvious solution would be to pass an alert to the signalling desk, using GSM-R, and have the signaller inform the driver using the GSM-R system.

 

[furnessvale]

I'm not sure that follows...

My post needs to be read in context with post #18, in that closing the station would be inconvenient to the nearby houses. Given they can only muster 76 journeys annually between them, if indeed no journeys are made by anyone from further afield, it cannot be that much of an inconvenience.

 

[tsr]

The obvious solution would be to pass an alert to the signalling desk, using GSM-R, and have the signaller inform the driver using the GSM-R system.

You'd need to send a text message to the GSM-R console on the train, and there would need to then be a newly defined method to authorise that to be done. In practice, the message would also need to be relayed in good time so as to allow the signaller's workload to be appropriately managed, and so the driver had sufficient time to stop. You'd also need to work out a way to link random remote stations to a GSM-R terminal, which is easier said than done, as even portable handsets are in very short supply, let alone hardwired facilities in the middle of the Scottish countryside...

All in all, that's probably no easier than inventing a trackside signal!

 

[najaB]

The obvious solution would be to pass an alert to the signalling desk, using GSM-R, and have the signaller inform the driver using the GSM-R system.

Stand to be corrected, but I don't think there's GSM-R coverage up that way.

 

[Ben.A.98]

Stand to be corrected, but I don't think there's GSM-R coverage up that way.

Quite correct. Everyone seems to be forgetting that this is deepest darkest Scotland. The GSM-R stops at Inverness, all communication between trains and the signalmen are done through the RETB.

 

[InOban]

What system does RETB now use? I know it was updated to a digital system a few years ago. Is it different from GSM-R?

 

[Class 170101]

The crossing will require power supplies anyway and is adjacent to the station

The crossing must have power supplies otherwise the crossing lights wouldn't work?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

It's also quite remote (Google Maps link) so it's highly unlikely that someone for whom the DDA is relevant would be using it unaided.

Indeed. Looking at Google Streetview suggests that you can't even get into the station without either manually opening a very large gate or squeezing through one of those cycle-barriers that requires you to move the gate-thingy as you go past. That kinda reinforces your point.

 

[Highlandspring]

What system does RETB now use? I know it was updated to a digital system a few years ago. Is it different from GSM-R?

The next gen RETB system uses a different range of frequencies from the previous RETB system and is a totally seperate system from GSM-R. Ben.A.98 knows what he’s talking about.

 

[InOban]

Thanks. I assumed he did! But why did they keep the systems separate?

On the thread, I would guess that most of the few nearby houses will be holiday lets, so an even lower permanent population. I wonder why the station was ever built? Was it to keep the landowner happy?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looking at the nearby stuff on a map, possibly for people going shooting?

 

[Ben.A.98]

What system does RETB now use? I know it was updated to a digital system a few years ago. Is it different from GSM-R?

The RETB is completely different from the GSM-R, it is its own radio system. As you say the system was upgraded in the last few years to Next Generation which has made it more reliable than under Legacy. The frequency change came about as Ofcom were re-allocating the radio bands which if we stayed on Legacy would have been riddled with interferance. As for not combining the two systems you would still need a seperate token transfer unit fitted to the train to send/recieve tokens which I don't think is possible through the GSM-R network as you are directly linked to the interlocking with a bespoke radio number. With the RETB you still get almost full cover of the line for voice communications which is open so everyone can hear everything.

The crossing must have power supplies otherwise the crossing lights wouldn't work?

This is currently an open crossing so there are no lights. When the upgrade happens then it will become an ABCL. I believe similar plans are in place for the open crossing through Rogart station.

 

[najaB]

Looking at the nearby stuff on a map, possibly for people going shooting?

Also some connection with the sheep industry, I would guess.

 

[alex17595]

Was it passenger operated?

I believe it was but I can only fibd a quick reference on a rmweb post.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Passenger-operated semaphores were fairly common at Scottish Highland request stops

 

[najaB]

Passenger-operated semaphores were fairly common at Scottish Highland request stops

I wonder if they would be allowed now? Though, in this case, it wouldn't allow the full possible time saving since trains would still have to slow significantly so that they could stop if needed.

 

[tiptoptaff]

I wonder if they would be allowed now? Though, in this case, it wouldn't allow the full possible time saving since trains would still have to slow significantly so that they could stop if needed.

It worked in steam days where speeds weren't so high and timings more lax
Not sure if it would work now.

 

[Killingworth]

76 passengers using the station once in a year, or one passenger passing through 76 times?

In previous recent years there have been twice as many recorded. What do those users think? How many were just bagging little used stations as a hobby, rather than needy local residents or holiday makers?

 

[Northhighland]

It worked in steam days where speeds weren't so high and timings more lax
Not sure if it would work now.

At 4.5 hours from Inverness to Wick timings are pretty lax now. cant see why this couldn't be some kind of request stop. With modern mobile communication surely some other way could be found. Remove this service and it is another blow to very fragile and remote communities. Doesn't seem like a difficult thing to fix.

 

[najaB]

How many were just bagging little used stations as a hobby, rather than needy local residents or holiday makers?

Remove this service and it is another blow to very fragile and remote communities.

Have you looked at where the station is? What community?! You're going to be in a car to get to it and it's less than 20 minutes drive from both Helmsdale and Kinbrace.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

TripAdvisor's Top Five things to do near Kildonan Station lists three activities at Helmsdale and two at Brora, both of which have their own stations.

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attra...d_Sutherland_Scottish_Highlands_Scotland.html

 

[DelW]

Have you looked at where the station is? What community?! You're going to be in a car to get to it and it's less than 20 minutes drive from both Helmsdale and Kinbrace.

Isn't the point that, at the moment, you don't need a car to get to it, since trains stop there?
As to why the station was built, Google views show an imposing house nearby, Kildonan Lodge, presumably a hunting lodge. It's quite likely that whoever built and owned that was either himself a director of the Highland Railway, or had friends or family who were, and was able to influence the railway to provide a platform and stopping services as required.