Avoiding the MML overcrowding during planned ECML disruption?

[Bletchleyite]

I was at St Pancras yesterday evening. The queuing was a nightmare, and plenty of people missed trains because there simply wasn't capacity - Sheffield trains were being closed for boarding 10-15 minutes before departure.

Granting rights that can't be delivered is meaningless. If I'd been delayed on an itinerary, Delay Repay would acknowledge my actual issue - not provide a fix for the future that may be completely irrelevant.

The St Pancras issue (given how most LNER passengers are not on flexible tickets and so couldn't reroute themselves) was caused largely by LNER who, despite bleating, failing to agree appropriate quotas with EMR on the Corby services which meant pretty much all services via the RRB were priced right up, some to Anytime prices if going from Edinburgh/Morpeth/Newcastle. Even splitting wasn't a workaround because the only fare that came up for the Peterborough-Bedford bus on its own was the Anytime via London at nearly fifty quid. Whereas the Edinburgh/Newcastle-Peterborough trains were selling quite cheaply as long as you didn't want to go any further than Peterborough.

I think if you used a planner where you could force "calling at Flitwick" you could probably get it a bit lower without a split, that said, but it was the Corbys that came up in the planners for most journeys as they're faster.

If LNER had sorted this out properly (even by sticking a £5 bus fare in the system as a temporary measure and thus making splitting work properly) I don't think there would have been nearly as much of a problem. People will accept being priced onto buses if it saves them a packet.

Another thing that may have helped would be Avanti sending all the via-Birmingham Glasgows to Edinburgh for the day rather than half of them, assuming that could be pathed, and again pricing people onto those. The disruption on the WCML knackered that a bit in the event, but had that not happened that would have given you an hourly (slow) Edinburgh potentially at a good Advance fare.

 

[cactustwirly]

The St Pancras issue (given how most LNER passengers are not on flexible tickets and so couldn't reroute themselves) was caused largely by LNER who, despite bleating, failing to agree appropriate quotas with EMR on the Corby services which meant pretty much all services via the RRB were priced right up, some to Anytime prices if going from Edinburgh/Morpeth/Newcastle. Even splitting wasn't a workaround because the only fare that came up for the Peterborough-Bedford bus on its own was the Anytime via London at nearly fifty quid. Whereas the Edinburgh/Newcastle-Peterborough trains were selling quite cheaply as long as you didn't want to go any further than Peterborough.

I think if you used a planner where you could force "calling at Flitwick" you could probably get it a bit lower without a split, that said, but it was the Corbys that came up in the planners for most journeys as they're faster.

If LNER had sorted this out properly (even by sticking a £5 bus fare in the system as a temporary measure and thus making splitting work properly) I don't think there would have been nearly as much of a problem. People will accept being priced onto buses if it saves them a packet.

Another thing that may have helped would be Avanti sending all the via-Birmingham Glasgows to Edinburgh for the day rather than half of them, assuming that could be pathed, and again pricing people onto those. The disruption on the WCML knackered that a bit in the event, but had that not happened that would have given you an hourly (slow) Edinburgh potentially at a good Advance fare.

It's inevitable, the MML will never have enough capacity to handle the ECML traffic on top of its own.
People will choose the rail alternative over the RRB, quite frankly it's a poor experience especially when paying rail fares

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's inevitable, the MML will never have enough capacity to handle the ECML traffic on top of its own.
People will choose the rail alternative over the RRB, quite frankly it's a poor experience especially when paying rail fares

Not only rail fares, though, but inflated rail fares because LNER didn't work with EMR/Thameslink to align quotas properly. There were itineraries where if you booked the LNER alone it'd be fifty quid from Newcastle to Peterborough (a bargain at current fares) but two hundred as a through journey to London. Nobody is going to pay that for a bus ride.

Part of the problem as I note is there not being a sensible fare for the bus so splits couldn't avoid that nonsense.

 

[35B]

The St Pancras issue (given how most LNER passengers are not on flexible tickets and so couldn't reroute themselves) was caused largely by LNER who, despite bleating, failing to agree appropriate quotas with EMR on the Corby services which meant pretty much all services via the RRB were priced right up, some to Anytime prices if going from Edinburgh/Morpeth/Newcastle. Even splitting wasn't a workaround because the only fare that came up for the Peterborough-Bedford bus on its own was the Anytime via London at nearly fifty quid. Whereas the Edinburgh/Newcastle-Peterborough trains were selling quite cheaply as long as you didn't want to go any further than Peterborough.

I think if you used a planner where you could force "calling at Flitwick" you could probably get it a bit lower without a split, that said, but it was the Corbys that came up in the planners for most journeys as they're faster.

If LNER had sorted this out properly (even by sticking a £5 bus fare in the system as a temporary measure and thus making splitting work properly) I don't think there would have been nearly as much of a problem. People will accept being priced onto buses if it saves them a packet.

Another thing that may have helped would be Avanti sending all the via-Birmingham Glasgows to Edinburgh for the day rather than half of them, assuming that could be pathed, and again pricing people onto those. The disruption on the WCML knackered that a bit in the event, but had that not happened that would have given you an hourly (slow) Edinburgh potentially at a good Advance fare.

I was there, which I suspect you were not. The station was full of announcements directing people to Thameslink, with acceptance arranged. The issue at St Pancras was simply one of capacity, where the grossly inadequate capacity of 5 car 222s could not begin to address the demand on Sheffield trains.

EMR made the situation worse than it need have been by recruiting temporary security guards to man the queues, and allowing them to be the primary customer interface; they also provided negligible information to people at ground level who came up the stairs (the set south of the champagne bar) to see long queues and nothing to tell them what to do. Walking up the Nottingham queue (which was very much shorter) I saw a sign for "reservations" and, having a counted places reservation, went across. We got priority boarding, but had to hunt it down and I suspect a good few people didn't realise that they could use that to their advantage (crudely, I suspect 95% of people used the normal queues).

With a reservation, we were let forward before the main crowd - and I think people who'd been let onto the platform but unable to board the preceding train were asked to wait there. We were on the 17:05 Nottingham; the 17:02 Sheffield was doors closed by 16:50.

There are some extenuating circumstances for EMR - DfT's dismal failure at fleet management, possibly LNER's fare structure - but the core issue was a simple one of excessive demand meeting grossly inadequate supply.

 

[Kite159]

Even if you could price people onto using the slow Thameslink service to Bedford to change onto a replacement bus to Peterborough where they might or might not make the actual connection due to traffic, you will still get people ignoring the bus as an option and prefer to use the crush loaded EMR services.

See also Chiltern overcrowding whenever the southern section of the WCML is closed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

See also Chiltern overcrowding whenever the southern section of the WCML is closed.

Usually these days on the WCML the bus option is pretty low key without any fast services given that there are more alternatives than the ECML. Thus it's a bit different - the ECML buses were the fastest option but were just outrageously priced.

 

[Kite159]

Usually these days on the WCML the bus option is pretty low key without any fast services given that there are more alternatives than the ECML. Thus it's a bit different - the ECML buses were the fastest option but were just outrageously priced.

Fastest to where?
Grantham or Newark maybe, but for anywhere in Yorkshire using EMR to Sheffield and changing onto XC the journey planners will default to the fastest route