Avoiding NWM afternoon peak restriction

[Railjet]

I'm referring to this restriction (GF) on CDRs:

NFM 08: RETURN TRAVEL
Not valid Mon-Fri on any train departing Birmingham New Street, Birmingham Snow Hill, Birmingham Moor Street, Five Ways or Jewellery Quarter between 1635 and 1800 inclusive.

In theory, it's quite easy to get round this restriction - for example, on the Cross-City Line, buy a CDR to Adderley Park where the restriction (G1) is the usual "by any train except those timed to depart Mondays - Fridays before 0930". From Sutton Coldfield a CDR to Adderley Park costs the same as a CDR to BHM; from Longbridge it's 10p more.

In practice, I'm not sure how the human barrier at BHM would react if you show up at 5pm using the return of a CDR from Adderley Park to Longbridge.

But this is really a question about starting late: even if the RPIs knew about the different restriction, if they were to ask you whether you had started your return journey at Adderley Park - do you have to answer that question? And since you don't want to lie, if you truthfully said no - would they be right to stop you unless you pay an excess fare?

 

[bb21]

would they be right to stop you unless you pay an excess fare?

On what grounds can they do that, as long as the ticket permits BOJ?

 

[John @ home]

would they be right to stop you unless you pay an excess fare?

No.

The Restrictions for Off-Peak Day Returns include this note:

5 - Break of journey is permitted on both outward and return portions of Off-Peak Day and GroupSave Day tickets unless otherwise indicated by a restriction shown against the ticket’s validity code.

As the OP correctly says, the relevant restriction here is G1, which is:

Outward Travel
By any train except those timed to depart Mondays-Fridays before 0930 but if fare is £5.50 or more, a 'nNetwork Daytripper' must be issued

Return Travel
By any train

In the absence of a restriction shown against the ticket’s validity code, the rights in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage apply. These are:

16. Starting, breaking or ending a journey at intermediate stations

You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for the trains you want to use. You may also end your journey (in either direction in the case of a return ticket) before the destination shown on the ticket. However, these rights may not apply to some types of tickets for which a break of journey is prohibited, in which case the relevant Train Companies will make this clear in their notices and other publications.

 

[yorkie]

And since you don't want to lie, if you truthfully said no - would they be right to stop you unless you pay an excess fare?

As far as I know all fares with the code 'CDR' (Off Peak Day Return) are valid for break of journey (BOJ), including starting/finishing short. ATOC have muddied the water with the rules since simplification as they combined the 'CDR' fares with 'SVR' fares (which did not permit BOJ on the outward portion) under one 'category' in a silly attempt to pretend that they're the same thing. They then decided that you have to check a validity code to determine if BOJ is permitted. However I am unaware of any CDRs prohibiting BOJ.

 

[cheekyfox]

I have a similar question,

I bought tickets yesterday at Filton Abbey wood (approx 15:00). Off peak period return to Cheltenham, then asked for a peak time return from Cheltenham to Shirley (west midlands) as i was due to pass through Moor street at 17:00 and so be in the middle of the off-peak restrictions.

The man in the kiosk said I only needed an off-peak as it states in his book that the journey started after 09:30 in the morning.

Last week I hav the off peak ticket and asked at New Street and they stated I had to wait till after 18:00 to travel from Moor Street.

What is going on???

 

[button_boxer]

What is going on???

As is frequently explained on this forum, there is no such thing as a peak or off-peak train, the restrictions apply to the ticket and vary depending on the origin and destination. The Cheltenham to Birmingham off-peak ticket may have a restriction that prevents its use on trains around 5pm but the man in the kiosk seems to think that the Cheltenham to Shirley ticket has a different restriction that doesn't.

I've had the same thing with a journey from Sleaford to Derby. I changed at Nottingham at around 5pm and there was an announcement over the PA that off-peak day return tickets were not valid on that train. This worried me slightly as I'd checked the journey planner the previous day and it had told me that my off-peak day return would be valid on that train. So I checked with the guard before departure and he explained that it was only tickets from Nottingham that were subject to the restriction. My ticket from Sleaford was valid.

 

[tony_mac]

Confusingly, the off-peak day return from Cheltenham to Birmingham does have an evening peak restriction.

For 60p more, you can just get the off-peak return, and it does not have an evening peak restriction.

 

[bnm]

Or, for £10.10 less you can get an Anytime Day Return, Cheltenham - Bromsgrove, and take advantage of the Routeing Guide easement that permits doubling back from BHM.

 

[island]

I have a similar question,

I bought tickets yesterday at Filton Abbey wood (approx 15:00). Off peak period return to Cheltenham, then asked for a peak time return from Cheltenham to Shirley (west midlands) as i was due to pass through Moor street at 17:00 and so be in the middle of the off-peak restrictions.

The man in the kiosk said I only needed an off-peak as it states in his book that the journey started after 09:30 in the morning.

Last week I hav the off peak ticket and asked at New Street and they stated I had to wait till after 18:00 to travel from Moor Street.

What is going on???

An off-peak return from FIT to SRL is valid after 9:30am with no evening restrictions. There is no off-peak day return on that flow.

An off-peak return from CNM to SRL (or BHM) is also valid after 9:30am with no evening restrictions. However, an off-peak day return (which is only 60p less, as mentioned above) is also not valid for trains timed to depart between 3:30pm and 6:15pm.

I rather suspect this was a lot less confusing pre-simplification when they were called "Saver Return" and "Cheap Day Return" :roll: