Aviation Discussion

[AlterEgo]

So how was Joon? As bad as feared?

Exactly the same as Air France's mainline product, but with entertainment delivered to your device and cabin crew wearing (smart) trainers. I was in Business Class.

Overall, it's a decent product, but it's not really any different to flying AF and I don't really appreciate all the guff they talk about themselves. Millennials' airline, indeed...(!)

 

[atillathehunn]

I think the 'Millenial Airline' bit was the bit I feared the most. I am a Millennial, and never once has one of their adverts enticed me to fly with them. Out of interest, what was the demographic breakdown on the flight? Was it the Millennial airline?

The trainers I can see being popular with staff. I can't imagine how their feet must ordinarily feel after being on their feet in those shoes they normally wear.

 

[atillathehunn]

If you mean Perth is well served from Abu Dhabi by Virgin Australia, you are absolutely wrong. Virgin Australia never started its Perth - Abu Dhabi services, using the aircraft to start its Melbourne - Hong Kong services IIRC.

On a slightly different matter, Qatar now flies the Airbus A380 to Perth. Load factors are very variable with one inbound flight last week having a total payload of 110 passengers.

What's the mean and standard deviation on the Qatar loading, Ian? (If you happen to have the figures, I'm curious).

As you're based in Perth, another question: what's the local reaction been like to the new London non-stop? And any idea of the loadings?

 

[AlterEgo]

I think the 'Millenial Airline' bit was the bit I feared the most. I am a Millennial, and never once has one of their adverts enticed me to fly with them. Out of interest, what was the demographic breakdown on the flight? Was it the Millennial airline?

The trainers I can see being popular with staff. I can't imagine how their feet must ordinarily feel after being on their feet in those shoes they normally wear.

Very difficult to gauge as Porto is one of the "thinner" routes with a lot more marginal traffic. However, I didn't notice anything particularly unusual about the flight demographics, and it definitely wasn't stuffed full of millennials... In Business, there was one other person who was around my age (31) and the others were all older gentlemen. Go figure.

I mentioned how silly the uniforms looked on my Twitter account - the AF mainline ones are far superior - but a member of crew on another airline mentioned he was jealous of the Joon crew. As you and he say, they're obviously much more comfortable. By the end of the flight the style had grown on me a bit.

 

[atillathehunn]

One photo I saw online while Googling it just now sort of made me think of the Star Trek uniforms... I can imagine it being comfortable though.

Interesting data point on an airline not often mentioned here. Enjoy Porto! Apparently it's lovely.
Sustainability wise I'm sure they're happy it's not just Millennials. However, I'm curious as to why we need our own airline? We already travel far more than previous generations did and probably more than older generations travel now. It's not like we're consciously avoiding air travel. If what they mean is a price model based on a low base fare and then add-ons then this is definitely not just a 'young' thing. My last 6 Ryanair/Vuelling flights (including to a traditional holiday destination) were pretty average distribution - no young-bias.

 

[telstarbox]

Among my acquaintances it's the boomers (50s/60s/retired) who take the most flights per year, especially the ones who have gone down to a part-time week and paid off the mortgage...
More generally, despite the sporadic bad press around Ryanair I think most people have accepted that low cost airlines are here to stay and know how to 'play the game', especially as they tend to be the first ones to fly the 'up and coming' destinations. Easyjet were flying to Croatia long before BA got involved for example.

 

[atillathehunn]

Valid data point. It's possible I'm skewed with a non-random sample given I've lived abroad for however many years.

 

[atillathehunn]

Jet Airways confirmed at Manchester from 5th November serving Mumbai. Four weekly Monday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday. Assuming on an A330.

9W130 BOM 0230 MAN 0755
9W129 MAN 0935 BOM 0040

Long haul is growing fast at Manchester!

Given Virgin/Delta/Jet relationship, wonder if there will be some kind of Virgin/Jet tie up at Manchester connecting people from the States to the sub-continent.

 

[Bald Rick]

Reported in the paper tonight that from June, Ryanair are limiting free check in to the 48hrs before flight departure. Otherwise it’s £4 (up to 2 months before departure).

Ridiculous. Another reason for continuation of the boycott.

 

[fowler9]

Reported in the paper tonight that from June, Ryanair are limiting free check in to the 48hrs before flight departure. Otherwise it’s £4 (up to 2 months before departure).

Ridiculous. Another reason for continuation of the boycott.

I'll carry on using them unless there is a cheaper alternative which from Liverpool there rarely is. Isn't 48 hours longer than many of the old flag carriers.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'll carry on using them unless there is a cheaper alternative which from Liverpool there rarely is. Isn't 48 hours longer than many of the old flag carriers.

48hrs is longer than most ‘flag carriers’, but then they don’t charge you £55 to check in at the airport, and check in isn’t open before the cut in time for others who have paid an extra fee.

I’d rather pay more, and use airports further away than my nearest, to avoid flying Ryanair. And I do.

 

[sheff1]

I’d rather pay more, and use airports further away than my nearest, to avoid flying Ryanair. And I do.

Ryanair don't fly from my nearest airport. Unfortunately, very few other airlines do either. I often, though, travel from a more distant airport rather than use Ryanair from a closer one.

 

[atillathehunn]

Cubans 737 reported crashed and in flames on departure from Havana bound for Holguin. News is sketchy but it looks like 100 dead. On mobile so link hard. Thoughts to all involved

 

[Dentonian]

Jet Airways confirmed at Manchester from 5th November serving Mumbai. Four weekly Monday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday. Assuming on an A330.

9W130 BOM 0230 MAN 0755
9W129 MAN 0935 BOM 0040

Long haul is growing fast at Manchester!

Given Virgin/Delta/Jet relationship, wonder if there will be some kind of Virgin/Jet tie up at Manchester connecting people from the States to the sub-continent.

Will indeed be A330 according to the MEN. Not quite as colourful as Ethiopian 787s due to start the following month (3 per week, I think).

 

[Dentonian]

Reported in the paper tonight that from June, Ryanair are limiting free check in to the 48hrs before flight departure. Otherwise it’s £4 (up to 2 months before departure).

Ridiculous. Another reason for continuation of the boycott.

Am I missing something? Why would anyone want to check in so far in advance of departure? I sometimes wonder if I'm tempting fate by checking in (on line) the night before. Incidentally, what happens if you check in and then your flight is cancelled? I ask because I am due to fly in a fortnight and the equivalent flight tomorrow morning is already showing as cancelled.

 

[Bald Rick]

Am I missing something? Why would anyone want to check in so far in advance of departure? I sometimes wonder if I'm tempting fate by checking in (on line) the night before.

If, for example, the airline concerned has online only check in, or high charges for airport check in, you are going away somewhere for a few days or more, and where you are going does not have internet access, or you do not own the mobile technology to enable it. Like my parents, and I suspect a decent proportion of the more mature travelling population.

It’s a purely cash generating move by Ryanair to get people to pay to choose a seat such that they then get ‘free’ check in up to 2 months before flying. Then people travelling together can be sure of sitting next to each other, rather than leaving it to 48h out and hoping there are still some seats together left.

 

[fowler9]

At the end of the day folks Ryanair publicise what they charge for and I take all that in to account including travelling to other airports. If you would rather pay another airline more just to make a point then that is your choice. I don't use Ryanair if another airline will provide what I need for less (Including travelling to other airports).

 

[ian959]

What's the mean and standard deviation on the Qatar loading, Ian? (If you happen to have the figures, I'm curious).

As you're based in Perth, another question: what's the local reaction been like to the new London non-stop? And any idea of the loadings?

Qatar loadings are all over the place. Last figures I heard were on the 777 they were getting around 220-240 passengers on average - light for the -300ER but okay for the -200ER. Those figures are consistent on the A380 too - why they upgraded it to the A380 for the season I have no idea, presumably to draw traffic away from the Qantas non-stop to London. The A380 drops back to the 777 again towards the end of the year I believe.

As for the Qantas flights to London, it depends who you listen to regarding loadings. Qantas are keeping very quiet and anecdotal evidence suggests very good loadings in Business and Premium Economy and modest loadings in Economy. I have seen figures saying anything from 65% to 85% overall. Even on the inaugural flight with the enthusiasts the load was not that heavy. General consensus seems to be that if you really have to go to London, then it is the best option but it is tough especially with the very early morning arrival into London. Most people I know are continuing to transit though Singapore, Dubai or Doha rather than taking the direct flight.

 

[Bald Rick]

At the end of the day folks Ryanair publicise what they charge for and I take all that in to account including travelling to other airports. If you would rather pay another airline more just to make a point then that is your choice. I don't use Ryanair if another airline will provide what I need for less (Including travelling to other airports).

Fair enough. My experience is that I have flown - or attempted to fly - with Ryanair 6 times, and every time there has been a major problem with one or more of booking, paying, the flight being cancelled (48h after paying, 4 months in advance!) or the journey itself (gate, boarding or seating arrangements). Whilst no doubt they do offer cheap flights for many, that’s not been the case for me. Having to pay extra simply to check in, when it cannot cost them anymore to allow earlier check in - it is just another issue to add to a litany of poor attitude to the customer.

Meanwhile with something like 50 EasyJet flights under my belt, I have never had any issues such as these, indeed they have rescued me and Mrs BR when faced with a major issue of our (well, her) making with minimal fuss and expense.

So, I will happily pay more*, or travel further to an airport, to avoid Ryanair, simply because overall it will be a better experience.

* although more than half the times I have taken this policy, it has actually turned out cheaper

 

[Dentonian]

If, for example, the airline concerned has online only check in, or high charges for airport check in, you are going away somewhere for a few days or more, and where you are going does not have internet access, or you do not own the mobile technology to enable it. Like my parents, and I suspect a decent proportion of the more mature travelling population.

It’s a purely cash generating move by Ryanair to get people to pay to choose a seat such that they then get ‘free’ check in up to 2 months before flying. Then people travelling together can be sure of sitting next to each other, rather than leaving it to 48h out and hoping there are still some seats together left.

Ah! I hadn't thought of the return leg, and I always travel alone. I do usually check in on line ex-MAN because the journey to the Airport involves the M60 so potentially serious delays throughout my bus journey. Coming home, I normally check in at the desk (either remote or traditional bag check) as I am usually at/near the Airport and flying back much later in the day. I've only ever flown Ryanair once, and that was 20+ years ago (to Dublin) when they had just half a dozen 737-200s

 

[atillathehunn]

With regard to the check in time: yes revenue raising for sure. However, I thought the damage was done when they changed check in to less than 7 days, which is inside the window of a typical family holiday. With many hotels not being willing to print boarding passes on mass, it levied an extra €3 or so per person per booking, for zero additional cost.
There's a few airlines I avoid on principle, Ryanair not one. I have been using Ryanair less because they've not been offering the cheap fares they used to. Each time I've checked recently for Eindhoven - Manchester they've wanted €300 one way. Charleroi is still usually rock bottom. Sadly I lose the cheap train tickets to Belgium when I turn 26 in a few weeks, so the fares from Amsterdam become comparable. I used Vueling and Flybe most recently. Flybe is less of a joke these days, which is pleasant. Vueling leg room was horrendous.

 

[atillathehunn]

Qatar loadings are all over the place. Last figures I heard were on the 777 they were getting around 220-240 passengers on average - light for the -300ER but okay for the -200ER. Those figures are consistent on the A380 too - why they upgraded it to the A380 for the season I have no idea, presumably to draw traffic away from the Qantas non-stop to London. The A380 drops back to the 777 again towards the end of the year I believe.

As for the Qantas flights to London, it depends who you listen to regarding loadings. Qantas are keeping very quiet and anecdotal evidence suggests very good loadings in Business and Premium Economy and modest loadings in Economy. I have seen figures saying anything from 65% to 85% overall. Even on the inaugural flight with the enthusiasts the load was not that heavy. General consensus seems to be that if you really have to go to London, then it is the best option but it is tough especially with the very early morning arrival into London. Most people I know are continuing to transit though Singapore, Dubai or Doha rather than taking the direct flight.

Thanks for that. Not as bad as perhaps I thought. I saw someone in another thread say that 22 people were on a recent Cardiff - Doha flight...

Possibly they did it for operational reasons (needed the 77W elsewhere), possibly they're hoping for a good summer.

Interesting notes on the direct flight. I would imagine it's tough in Y. In reality, they need the front filled not the back, so that's encouraging.

 

[atillathehunn]

Will indeed be A330 according to the MEN. Not quite as colourful as Ethiopian 787s due to start the following month (3 per week, I think).

See post 4049. They start 1st December 4 weekly with the 787.

 

[ian959]

Thanks for that. Not as bad as perhaps I thought. I saw someone in another thread say that 22 people were on a recent Cardiff - Doha flight...

That would not surprise - I have heard of flights from Adelaide to Doha on the A350 that are nearly empty. Initial loadings on the Canberra to Doha flights (777-300ER) have been poor from what I understand.

 

[fowler9]

That would not surprise - I have heard of flights from Adelaide to Doha on the A350 that are nearly empty. Initial loadings on the Canberra to Doha flights (777-300ER) have been poor from what I understand.

I'd be amazed if anyone wanted to fly to Canberra unless they really had to. Ha ha. When I was in Australia and told Australians I had been there they asked why.

 

[Butts]

I'd be amazed if anyone wanted to fly to Canberra unless they really had to. Ha ha. When I was in Australia and told Australians I had been there they asked why.

I thought Canberra was worth going to see - I did a daytrip from Sydney on a plane.

The Avenue with the Parliament Building at one end and the war memorial to the other as quite impressive if I remember correctly.

People forget it is the Capital !!!

 

[fowler9]

I thought Canberra was worth going to see - I did a daytrip from Sydney on a plane.

The Avenue with the Parliament Building at one end and the war memorial to the other as quite impressive if I remember correctly.

People forget it is the Capital !!!

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we went. It was funny though, we were originally going to spend a night or two there then we found out how expensive the cheapest hostels were. We changed it to a day, arriving at four in the morning on a Greyhound from Melbourne and getting another to Sydney in the evening. We arived, waited in a McDonalds until it got light and then walked to the parliament. We got a bus back to the city centre and went straight to the Greyhound bus station and asked if we could get an earlier coach out to Sydney. The guy behind the counter laughed and asked what was wrong with Canberra. We laughed and said our plans had changed. He laughed again. Nothing wrong with the place as such but it was like flying around the world from Australia and visiting Milton Keynes.

 

[Dentonian]

See post 4049. They start 1st December 4 weekly with the 787.

Sorry, missed it. As I'm sat in front of a computer screen all day at work, I am limiting my time at home to when I need to catch up on potentially useful information - so I'm "disciplining" myself to only look on Tuesday evenings, Friday evenings and Sundays.

 

[Dentonian]

People forget it is the Capital !!!

So! A very "British" response if I may say so. Unless you are a keen student of national Politics, I suppose.

 

[fowler9]

So! A very "British" response if I may say so. Unless you are a keen student of national Politics, I suppose.

It's a shame for Australia that even the bloke in the bus station thought it was funny we wanted to leave after six hours given it is the capital. Ha ha.