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Aviation Discussion

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Crawley Ben

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Norwegian has confirmed that the Gatwick - New York route is going 3x daily (except Saturday's) as of October 29th (2018).

Turkish Airlines also adding a seasonal Gatwick - Bodrum service between June and September 2018. Route to be served twice weekly with Boeing 737-800 aircraft.

Cheers

Ben
 
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atillathehunn

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Norwegian I'm sure going hard against BA on the New York route. Yield must be a blood bath. Norwegian have an aggressive expansion plan but got to wonder how long it will last.

In other news the new Qatar service to Cardiff commenced using an a350 as a one-off as the wings are produced in Wales. Apparently about 200 people on the first outbound from Cardiff and subsequently about half full.
 

Bald Rick

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Norwegian I'm sure going hard against BA on the New York route. Yield must be a blood bath. Norwegian have an aggressive expansion plan but got to wonder how long it will last.

In other news the new Qatar service to Cardiff commenced using an a350 as a one-off as the wings are produced in Wales. Apparently about 200 people on the first outbound from Cardiff and subsequently about half full.

What’s the normal traction?
 

atillathehunn

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Yes normal service is a Dreamliner. The A350 was for the press launch given Airbus' links with Wales (albeit at the other end).
 

atillathehunn

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Virgin have bought back an A340 from the scrap yard to cover for RR 787 issues.

Norwegian are chartering 2 777s for the same reason from EuroAtlantic and Previlege style for the same reason .
 

fowler9

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Virgin have bought back an A340 from the scrap yard to cover for RR 787 issues.

Norwegian are chartering 2 777s for the same reason from EuroAtlantic and Previlege style for the same reason .
Nothing warms my heart more than hearing another A340 is still flying. Sadly an A340 also warms the planet more than a 787.
 

atillathehunn

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Grand scheme of things it won't make much difference. Not sure I've heard of a plane coming back from the bone yard.

In other A340 news, I've just seen an Air Belgium A340 take off from Zaventem, flightradar shows it operating for JetAirFly to Marrakesh.
 

atillathehunn

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Unfortunate parking position.

Never found them that unpleasant personally, though I'm informed that pilots may not appreciate the hairdryer output of the engines.
 

Crawley Ben

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British Airways have announced a new route this morning from Heathrow to Durban, South Africa. Route will be operated by Boeing 787-8 Dreamliners 3x weekly from October 2018.

Cheers

Ben
 

atillathehunn

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Great announcement, but that's a horribly long slog down the back in the 788's very cramped seats.

In news north of the border, Emirates have announced Edinburgh daily with a 3-class 77W

Edit: worth mentioning as I can't remember whether it's been mentioned before, but Etihad are dropping Edinburgh, announced a few weeks before Emirates' announcement.
 
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Tetchytyke

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Norwegian I'm sure going hard against BA on the New York route. Yield must be a blood bath. Norwegian have an aggressive expansion plan but got to wonder how long it will last.

IAG have quietly been buying up Norwegian's stock for a while now. They're up to a 5% stake in the company.
 

FQTV

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I wonder if Emirates think they can make the cargo side of it work. That's what keeps the Newcastle flight going, IIRC.

I suspect that the Emirates announcement is just another round in their p*ssing contest with Etihad and Qatar, made possible by the fact that Emirates has more aircraft than it knows what to do with, and not enough tarmac on the ground to land them on.....

Newcastle certainly is strong for cargo for Emirates, though, and the 777-300ER is a tremendously useful tool for belly freight.
 

atillathehunn

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IAG have quietly been buying up Norwegian's stock for a while now. They're up to a 5% stake in the company.
Better than that, I think I've read recently that they've made a formal offer to buy the arm which operates the long haul flights from the UK.

Norwegian will find it hard to completely unseat BA from New York, which is a frequency dominated route, with something close to an hourly timetable of departures from London for at least the peak bit of the day, and they also lack the connection feed. However it will dilute their yields.
 

atillathehunn

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I wonder if Emirates think they can make the cargo side of it work. That's what keeps the Newcastle flight going, IIRC.
I would have thought it's a big consideration. I would think fresh seafood and whisky would fill up the belly well with connections to China.

Interestingly the flight doesn't connect to the main 2am bank of departures from Dubai.
 

atillathehunn

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I suspect that the Emirates announcement is just another round in their p*ssing contest with Etihad and Qatar, made possible by the fact that Emirates has more aircraft than it knows what to do with, and not enough tarmac on the ground to land them on.....

Newcastle certainly is strong for cargo for Emirates, though, and the 777-300ER is a tremendously useful tool for belly freight.

That competition is won hands down already.

Etihad are slashing routes, including Edinburgh (and Perth, Australia, which is a surprise).

Qatar is still fighting though, launching quite a few new destinations, including Cardiff recently, to which Emirates offers no competition. They are better placed at the moment with narrow body fleet doing nothing to expand to smaller airports in the Balkans and southern Europe, and do so with lower costs than sending a minimum of a 777 there.
 

Tetchytyke

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I suspect that the Emirates announcement is just another round in their p*ssing contest with Etihad

That was won ages ago.

As an aside, I was incredibly disappointed by Etihad when I flew with them from Edinburgh recently. The 2-4-2 layout was pretty much the only redeeming feature.
 

FQTV

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That competition is won hands down already.

Etihad are slashing routes, including Edinburgh (and Perth, Australia, which is a surprise).

Qatar is still fighting though, launching quite a few new destinations, including Cardiff recently, to which Emirates offers no competition. They are better placed at the moment with narrow body fleet doing nothing to expand to smaller airports in the Balkans and southern Europe, and do so with lower costs than sending a minimum of a 777 there.

That was won ages ago.

As an aside, I was incredibly disappointed by Etihad when I flew with them from Edinburgh recently. The 2-4-2 layout was pretty much the only redeeming feature.

Etihad has withdrawn from two destinations: Edinburgh is low yield, low frequency and high fixed-cost; Perth is well-served by Virgin Australia, in which it holds a significant equity stake.

It’s far from the end of the world; it’s not ‘slashing’ by any stretch of the imagination, and in fact some might observe that it’s the mark of a more mature airline - Lufthansa, KLM, BA et al do this all the time. BA, for example, no longer serves Taipei, Harare, Melbourne or Manila, for all sorts of reasons. Airlines simply redeploy their aircraft where there’s higher demand, higher yield and higher asset utilisation.

Although regular Etihad passengers observe an ongoing dilution of their soft product, it’s generally held that the airline’s offer in each cabin class is stronger and more consistent than Emirates, and that wins them friends.

Economy is still economy, though, and trying to offer dine on demand in Business to over 80 passengers on an A380 is doomed to failure, no matter how hard Etihad tries.

Qatar has some very specific issues, and who knows where they’ll end up.

But it’s Emirates that has, I’d suggest, always shown the most unsustainable traits of chronic over supply and unsophisticated expansion. Witness Qatar announcing Doha to Auckland, and Emirates suddenly finding an A380 to run non-stop in addition to three other A380s that they send in daily as tags from Australia. This to a city only twice the size of Nottingham.
 

OwlMan

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Brussels Airways is subject to a pilots strike on Monday 14 May.
Flanders News
Pilots at Brussels Airlines intend to take industrial action on Monday. The flag carrier expects a significant impact on traffic. Many of the 278 flights planned for Monday will be cancelled. In all Brussels Airlines had hoped to transport 34,000 passengers.



Industrial action has been on the cards at the airline for some time. A reconciliation meeting earlier in the week failed to make any headway. Pilots decided to commence their strike action on Monday and not to affect passengers eager to get away during the Ascension Day holiday weekend.

The flag carrier intends to keep most of its planes on the tarmac on Monday in order to avoid chaos. The company promises to provide passengers who had planned to fly on Monday with information as soon as possible. It also urges passenger to stay up to date on flight information by consulting its website. Brussels Airlines will be deploying extra staff with a view to helping as many passengers as possible.

A fresh reconciliation meeting is planned for Monday. If this fails further action is possible. A spokesman for the Christian union noted that pilots will also take strike action on Wednesday as part of a national day of action against the government's pension reforms.

Pilots are striking in favour of higher pay and better working conditions. Monday's action is the third time in 16 years that the carrier is affected by a strike.
 

atillathehunn

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Etihad has withdrawn from two destinations: Edinburgh is low yield, low frequency and high fixed-cost; Perth is well-served by Virgin Australia, in which it holds a significant equity stake.

It’s far from the end of the world; it’s not ‘slashing’ by any stretch of the imagination, and in fact some might observe that it’s the mark of a more mature airline - Lufthansa, KLM, BA et al do this all the time. BA, for example, no longer serves Taipei, Harare, Melbourne or Manila, for all sorts of reasons. Airlines simply redeploy their aircraft where there’s higher demand, higher yield and higher asset utilisation.

Although regular Etihad passengers observe an ongoing dilution of their soft product, it’s generally held that the airline’s offer in each cabin class is stronger and more consistent than Emirates, and that wins them friends.

Economy is still economy, though, and trying to offer dine on demand in Business to over 80 passengers on an A380 is doomed to failure, no matter how hard Etihad tries.

Qatar has some very specific issues, and who knows where they’ll end up.

But it’s Emirates that has, I’d suggest, always shown the most unsustainable traits of chronic over supply and unsophisticated expansion. Witness Qatar announcing Doha to Auckland, and Emirates suddenly finding an A380 to run non-stop in addition to three other A380s that they send in daily as tags from Australia. This to a city only twice the size of Nottingham.

They've dropped Edinburgh, Perth, San Francisco. They've also reduced capacity to Bangkok among others.

They are also deferring new aircraft orders: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...tion-as-etihad-reviews-strategy-idUSKBN1I70FE

I, and neither do you, have real financial information for either airline. So, we go by evidence presented. If Emirates has the cash to splash around new routes and expanding routes, then great, that seems like a win. They might have a loyal client base, but it's still smaller.
 

FQTV

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They've dropped Edinburgh, Perth, San Francisco. They've also reduced capacity to Bangkok among others.

They are also deferring new aircraft orders: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...tion-as-etihad-reviews-strategy-idUSKBN1I70FE

I, and neither do you, have real financial information for either airline. So, we go by evidence presented. If Emirates has the cash to splash around new routes and expanding routes, then great, that seems like a win. They might have a loyal client base, but it's still smaller.

Almost everyone has reduced capacity to Bangkok; the economy is still weak, it's leisure heavy and the political situation still makes longhaul carriers cautious, especially about 22:00 and later departures owing to the government's impositions of curfews a few years ago. Westbound day flights are another yield suppressor.

San Francisco from the UAE is clearly an edge-case route, and you'd probably need big sub-continental feed to make it work.

The use of words like 'slashing' to describe route reviews is, I maintain, unwarranted.

The order book review is again something that all airlines use as a bargaining tool, though it's absolutely fair comment to observe that some of Etihad's book is comprised of frames that would have been slated for Air Berlin and Alitalia.

It's also fair to note that even Emirates cancelled its order for 70 Airbus A350XWBs a few years ago. More recently Emirates has tried to lever things with the suggestion that their 150 aircraft Boeing 777X order may be cancelled.

It's perhaps also worth mentioning, as very many are unaware, that Etihad is the United Arab Emirates' flag carrier, and that Abu Dhabi is, by a factor of multiples, the richest emirate in the United Arab Emirates. Emirates Airline is the airline of Dubai, not the United Arab Emirates, and though it's true that few are truly 'in the know', there was a lot of Abu Dhabi involvement in Dubai post 2007 then the latter caught a serious economic cold. The legacy of that may yet be revealed in terms of airline involvements.
 

AlterEgo

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Will be flying Joon tomorrow, CDG-OPO. Very unsure as to whether I will love it or hate it. They have new interiors on their aircraft with charging sockets but there's something about their hipster uniform that winds me up... :D

They have upgraded me to Business for free too, either by mistake or trying to "entice" me to spend more money in the future with them.
 

Crawley Ben

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Air China are returning to Gatwick and starting up a new route to Chengdu. The route will be 3x weekly using Airbus A330-300 aircraft. The first flight is due to commence on 03rd July 2018.

Cheers

Benn
 

atillathehunn

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Will be flying Joon tomorrow, CDG-OPO. Very unsure as to whether I will love it or hate it. They have new interiors on their aircraft with charging sockets but there's something about their hipster uniform that winds me up... :D

They have upgraded me to Business for free too, either by mistake or trying to "entice" me to spend more money in the future with them.
So how was Joon? As bad as feared?
 

atillathehunn

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Ethiopian launching Manchester.

Four times weekly starting in December on the Dreamliner. It will be ADD-BRU-MAN. Unclear now whether Brussels Manchester will have fifth freedom rights. It's also unclear what implications this has for the Brussels services which are already a extent with stops in Milan or Vienna. Could be a shake up of their European flight options.

http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/nort...ester-airport-launches-new-route-heart-africa

Edit:

Begins 1st December 2018.

ET724 ADD 0045 BRU 0530/0630 MAN 0655
ET725 MAN 1900 BRU 2115/2215 ADD 0600
 
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ian959

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Etihad has withdrawn from two destinations: Edinburgh is low yield, low frequency and high fixed-cost; Perth is well-served by Virgin Australia, in which it holds a significant equity stake.

If you mean Perth is well served from Abu Dhabi by Virgin Australia, you are absolutely wrong. Virgin Australia never started its Perth - Abu Dhabi services, using the aircraft to start its Melbourne - Hong Kong services IIRC.

On a slightly different matter, Qatar now flies the Airbus A380 to Perth. Load factors are very variable with one inbound flight last week having a total payload of 110 passengers.
 
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