Aviation Discussion

[atillathehunn]

There's some half truths in here. Sounds like both bookings were covered by insurance, just that airline insurance was a little slower. Booking with a credit card is very useful in the event you need charge back.

I don't normally advocate booking normal, uncomplicated trips via OTAs. This is because they only pass to airline control 24 hours out. Which means changing bookings is messy and complicated, and often expensive.

Where travel agents can be useful is when booking two unrelated flights as a connection. There are some travel agents which offer insurance which effectively makes two Ryanair bookings connection. If you leave more than the minimum connection time they will cover you in the event of loss. However, your own personal travel insurance may also cover this. Otherwise, dealing with the organ grinder not the money is usually the best bet.

 

[fowler9]

USS Washington, Bush and Ford are all currently in port at Norfolk, Virginia, anyone know why each one has a single F-18 on deck if you look on Google Maps??

 

[atillathehunn]

Because they're aircraft carriers?

Anyone with any more details I'm sure are sworn to secrecy...

I've just seen (it turns out several months late.....) that Ryanair have dropped their ambition to fly to Ukraine. The deal was rejected by the airport as not profitable. Many allegations that the owner of the airport is in the pocket of the owner of UIA. Would have been nice, and their fares were very nice.

 

[WestCoast]

I've just seen (it turns out several months late.....) that Ryanair have dropped their ambition to fly to Ukraine. The deal was rejected by the airport as not profitable. Many allegations that the owner of the airport is in the pocket of the owner of UIA. Would have been nice, and their fares were very nice.

Wizzair is still present in Ukraine so there is some low cost presence.

Noticed some interesting signage recently that has popped up in the boarding gate stairs in T3 Manchester directed at low cost carriers, “some airlines choose not to use our airbridges” and “some airlines may hold you here while the aircraft is being prepared”.....

 

[atillathehunn]

But Wizz air are not western. The entire country is torn between pivoting east and west. While Hungary is in the EU, it still holds eastern credentials. However Ryanair is not - Western Europe through and through. There's a political angle as well as economic.

 

[Crawley Ben]

British Airways to launch 3 new routes from Gatwick to Mahon (Menorca), Palma, and Gibraltar this summer. Will also increase frequencies on existing short haul routes using the slots they gained after Monarch's collapse. Nothing about new long haul destinations (Torono & Las Vegas already announced previously) link below for anyone whose interested.

http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?news_id=2030462

Cheers

Ben

 

[jopsuk]

regarding the Monarch collapse I'd have expected to see some of their routes taken up by other charter operators by now. For example routes to Preveza (Aktion National Airport). Until October they ran two flights in fifteen minutes from Gatwick on Sunday mornings (followed shortly after by an Easyjet). These served a few small package operators. Those operators seem to be selling holidays there still- so where's the capacity for that coming from?

 

[Dentonian]

regarding the Monarch collapse I'd have expected to see some of their routes taken up by other charter operators by now. For example routes to Preveza (Aktion National Airport). Until October they ran two flights in fifteen minutes from Gatwick on Sunday mornings (followed shortly after by an Easyjet). These served a few small package operators. Those operators seem to be selling holidays there still- so where's the capacity for that coming from?

I was surprised to see a report on BBC North West (though I assume it is a similar story throughout the country) about a big resurgence in Package Holidays this year. Package/Brochure holidays obviously don't cater for Single travellers and presumably aren't any good for those with property abroad - the former in particular has been a rapidly growing market. Given this, you would think your comment above would have even more validity. However, I'm just wondering whether its a bit of a "last hurrah", with many people not planning to take foreign holidays abroad after Brexit, due to either general money/job worries or the expectation of massive Insurance hikes for those with chronic illnesses post EHIC. That said, presumably the most common package destinations are presumably Spain and Turkey, for which Insurance is already prohibitive.
I'm just wondering if there will be a lot more sub-chartering of Aircraft this year, until the longer term future becomes clearer.

 

[atillathehunn]

I think part of the problem with Monarch was that it was forced out of its niche - selling holidays to the slightly quirkier destinations in North Africa. When that market collapsed with security concerns, they went into the mainstream holiday destinations, which are saturated with carriers with sunk marketing costs and route set up costs etc. They lost the battle against the established player - no great surprise. As you say, they negotiated a lot with package holiday companies, who I'm sure have just altered their pattern a bit and cut a deal with the other carriers to take the capacity up. A bit surprised there has been no extra Tel Aviv or Gibralter capacity announced from Manchester - Monarch did well on these routes (as does easyJet).

A package holiday bought now is probably a good deal, as you pay while the £ is still fair and lock it in now. The £ may well collapse shortly and make them poor value. Then you might well see people looking very far east or west to the States.

 

[northwichcat]

Package/Brochure holidays obviously don't cater for Single travellers

Really? I've booked a package holiday for one person before. There's some that don't cater for single travellers but others advertise the price based on two sharing but have a single supplement in the small print which you pay if you travel by yourself or if you're travelling with people who you don't want to share a room with.

 

[northwichcat]

I think part of the problem with Monarch was that it was forced out of its niche - selling holidays to the slightly quirkier destinations in North Africa. When that market collapsed with security concerns, they went into the mainstream holiday destinations, which are saturated with carriers with sunk marketing costs and route set up costs etc. They lost the battle against the established player - no great surprise. As you say, they negotiated a lot with package holiday companies, who I'm sure have just altered their pattern a bit and cut a deal with the other carriers to take the capacity up. A bit surprised there has been no extra Tel Aviv or Gibralter capacity announced from Manchester - Monarch did well on these routes (as does easyJet).

I noticed from Manchester Monarch were offering many of the same destinations as Jet2 but it was cheaper to book with Monarch, whether you were booking flight only or flight+hotel. I accept Jet2 aren't the cheapest budget operator but based on the advertised difference I would guess Monarch would need pretty full planes to break even.

A package holiday bought now is probably a good deal, as you pay while the £ is still fair and lock it in now. The £ may well collapse shortly and make them poor value.

Which might be one reason why Croatia has become so popular in the last couple of years. The Pound to Kuna rate has stayed a lot more constant than the Pound to Euro rate.

 

[northwichcat]

Noticed some interesting signage recently that has popped up in the boarding gate stairs in T3 Manchester directed at low cost carriers, “some airlines choose not to use our airbridges” and “some airlines may hold you here while the aircraft is being prepared”.....

Manchester are also known to make announcements like "This is a final call for all passengers travelling on flight XXXX to XXXXX to immediately go to gate XX" when not one passenger has gone through the boarding gate.

 

[northwichcat]

Thanks. Obviously, prices vary across the period I quoted, and I ruled out Ryanair straight away, because of their inconvenient flight times and reports of indiscriminate cancelling of flights over the Winter due to their crew shortages. My original preference leapt from £123 to £139 overnight last Friday, but I've just re-jigged my time off work options, and ended up with TAP for yes, just under £110!

I used TAP when I went to Lisbon a few years ago, which at the time was the Portuguese state owned airline. I found it was cheaper than to use Ryanair and TAP offered more convenient times - something like check-in opening at 9am for the outbound flight and at 1pm for the return flight. At the time TAP also offered a light meal on board.

 

[WestCoast]

From what I am reading on Pprune regarding Monarch capacity at Birmingham, Jet2.com is doubling their number of aircraft based there and Primera Air is also launching daily flights to Spain as well their US flights.

There’s also talk of easyJet increasing capacity massively at Manchester (something like 8 extra planes by peak summer) and Ryanair increasing by 3 or 4 planes.

At Luton, Wizz Air will be using the Monarch capacity for their new Wizz Air UK base (7 aircraft based there and new destinations including some Western European routes).

 

[WestCoast]

I think part of the problem with Monarch was that it was forced out of its niche - selling holidays to the slightly quirkier destinations in North Africa. When that market collapsed with security concerns, they went into the mainstream holiday destinations, which are saturated with carriers with sunk marketing costs and route set up costs etc. They lost the battle against the established player - no great surprise. As you say, they negotiated a lot with package holiday companies, who I'm sure have just altered their pattern a bit and cut a deal with the other carriers to take the capacity up

Well, Monarch was a well seasoned player in the traditional Spanish/Portuguese/Greek (EU) markets too but you’re right it seemed to be the North African (especially Egypt) and Turkish destinations that pulled in most of the revenue before the crisis. They obviously had a UK air operators certificate so could fly routes to these places, pretty sure there is no open skies between the EU and most of these places, so couldn’t be flown by Ryanair or one of those low cost charter carriers from Eastern Europe like Small Planet or Smartlynx.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I was surprised to see a report on BBC North West (though I assume it is a similar story throughout the country) about a big resurgence in Package Holidays this year.

For a week or two weeks in a traditional holiday destination, they are often cheaper than booking everything individually. And, with the volatility in the airline market at the moment, having the ATOL protection is something worth paying a small premium for.

Then you might well see people looking very far east or west to the States.

Indeed, the missus and I are having a week in Abu Dhabi at the end of February and we're paying only a little more than we would to have had the same week in the Canary Islands.

 

[AlterEgo]

I used TAP when I went to Lisbon a few years ago, which at the time was the Portuguese state owned airline. I found it was cheaper to use Ryanair and TAP offered more convenient times - something like check-in opening at 9am for the outbound flight and at 1pm for the return flight. At the time TAP also offered a light meal on board.

TAP are insanely cheap in economy on some routes. I browse ITA Matrix (a fare finding tool) on a daily basis and it’s astonishing how cheap they can be. This is particularly true on flights with a connection where they try to undercut the carrier offering a direct flight.

 

[Dentonian]

TAP are insanely cheap in economy on some routes. I browse ITA Matrix (a fare finding tool) on a daily basis and it’s astonishing how cheap they can be. This is particularly true on flights with a connection where they try to undercut the carrier offering a direct flight.

That used to be standard practice with all airlines.................well all "One World" carriers anyway. FTR, I've had my bank statement today, and my MAN-LIS has ended up costing just £103.84. When I looked at the possibility of going last Summer (ie. in Summer), Skyscanner was showing well into the high £200s for the same route (ie. same times of day).

 

[atillathehunn]

From what I am reading on Pprune regarding Monarch capacity at Birmingham, Jet2.com is doubling their number of aircraft based there and Primera Air is also launching daily flights to Spain as well their US flights.

There’s also talk of easyJet increasing capacity massively at Manchester (something like 8 extra planes by peak summer) and Ryanair increasing by 3 or 4 planes.

At Luton, Wizz Air will be using the Monarch capacity for their new Wizz Air UK base (7 aircraft based there and new destinations including some Western European routes).

I think I would take some of the numbers with a pinch - I've read someone say easyJet will have six additional aircraft based. I'm not too sure how that's possible, as overnight parking is tight as it is.

Well, Monarch was a well seasoned player in the traditional Spanish/Portuguese/Greek (EU) markets too but you’re right it seemed to be the North African (especially Egypt) and Turkish destinations that pulled in most of the revenue before the crisis. They obviously had a UK air operators certificate so could fly routes to these places, pretty sure there is no open skies between the EU and most of these places, so couldn’t be flown by Ryanair or one of those low cost charter carriers from Eastern Europe like Small Planet or Smartlynx.

Seasoned but clearly not quite enough. They were hurt hard by the Sharm attack as well as by the general unrest. I see Tunisia is coming back onto the map again now - just a bit too late for Monarch.

My colleague has just booked TAP for a work trip to Cape Verde (no, I don't believe it's a work trip either...). There were direct AMS - SID flights with a charter operator, but TAP was cheaper with a short layover in Lisbon. I know our regular route from the office here to the one in Senegal is with TAP, same for Ghana.

 

[theageofthetra]

As part of a rather good deal to Hawaii open jaw with Virgin the LAX-OGG and HNL- LAX parts are unfortunately with the hideous Delta. I think both these legs are with ancient 757's but as the flights aren't until Apr/May this year- is there any possibility newer aircraft may be used by then? Flights are 2955 and 4065.

 

[Dentonian]

As part of a rather good deal to Hawaii open jaw with Virgin the LAX-OGG and HNL- LAX parts are unfortunately with the hideous Delta. I think both these legs are with ancient 757's but as the flights aren't until Apr/May this year- is there any possibility newer aircraft may be used by then? Flights are 2955 and 4065.

I don't know if the aircraft from LAX across he Pacific are differently configured, but my last (and it will be my last due to medical insurance costs) flight from the US to MAN was indeed on board a Delta 757 from JFK. This was in 2010 and the a/c in question was ex Northwest. Being MAN-USA it was full despite three other dailys to/from NYC at the time and it being mid week and mid-May. Nevertheless, I was pleasantly surprised at how comfortable and spacious it was, as my previous long hauls had all been on wide-bodies. Of course it might help that I myself have always been "narrow-bodied" (lol).

 

[gsnedders]

As part of a rather good deal to Hawaii open jaw with Virgin the LAX-OGG and HNL- LAX parts are unfortunately with the hideous Delta. I think both these legs are with ancient 757's but as the flights aren't until Apr/May this year- is there any possibility newer aircraft may be used by then? Flights are 2955 and 4065.

VS2955 and VS4065, for those confused; DL1284 and DL2260, seemingly. DL1284 is booked for a 767, DL2260 a 757.

For a random day in May:

DL1284 is https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Delta_Airlines/Delta_Airlines_Boeing_767-300ER_A.php

DL2260 is https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Delta_Airlines/Delta_Airlines_Boeing_757-200_Hawaii_75H_v2.php

 

[theageofthetra]

VS2955 and VS4065, for those confused; DL1284 and DL2260, seemingly. DL1284 is booked for a 767, DL2260 a 757.

For a random day in May:

DL1284 is https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Delta_Airlines/Delta_Airlines_Boeing_767-300ER_A.php

DL2260 is https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Delta_Airlines/Delta_Airlines_Boeing_757-200_Hawaii_75H_v2.php

Sorry just noticed that one was a 767. Always a joy to find the combined age of the aircraft exceed my own considerably. Guess I'll need a spare phone battery and a few iplayer downloads on those old heaps!

 

[Royston Vasey]

Sorry just noticed that one was a 767. Always a joy to find the combined age of the aircraft exceed my own considerably. Guess I'll need a spare phone battery and a few iplayer downloads on those old heaps!

With their 18" wide seats and 32" pitch in 2-3-2 configuration Delta's 767s have become my plane of choice if in economy transatlantic tbh (despite being a BA Silver). You may not have as good IFE on a domestic bird but you'll have the same width, pitch and elbow room especially if in an outer pair. I don't really care how old the plane is (and increasingly what the entertainment is tbh!) especially since there's a constant trend of "densification" with newer aircraft. 10 abreast 777s and 9 abreast 787s as a case in point.

 

[gsnedders]

With their 18" wide seats and 32" pitch in 2-3-2 configuration Delta's 767s have become my plane of choice if in economy transatlantic tbh (despite being a BA Silver). You may not have as good IFE on a domestic bird but you'll have the same width, pitch and elbow room especially if in an outer pair. I don't really care how old the plane is (and increasingly what the entertainment is tbh!) especially since there's a constant trend of "densification" with newer aircraft. 10 abreast 777s and 9 abreast 787s as a case in point.

And I've been on some pretty old but recently refurbished aircraft in the past year which have been nicer than aircraft half their age!

 

[Royston Vasey]

And I've been on some pretty old but recently refurbished aircraft in the past year which have been nicer than aircraft half their age!

Absolutely, BA's newly refurbished 747s are pretty much the best in the fleet to fly on, despite being 18-22 years in service, with the possible exception of the Club World lower deck.

 

[theageofthetra]

Absolutely, BA's newly refurbished 747s are pretty much the best in the fleet to fly on, despite being 18-22 years in service, with the possible exception of the Club World lower deck.

Have booked the pairs on the 767 leg- any suggestions on where to sit on the 757 part?

 

[AlterEgo]

Absolutely, BA's newly refurbished 747s are pretty much the best in the fleet to fly on, despite being 18-22 years in service, with the possible exception of the Club World lower deck.

That’s not saying very much though - BA have an old fleet and outdated cabins.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Have booked the pairs on the 767 leg- any suggestions on where to sit on the 757 part?

Not really, unless you can get an exit row or want to pay for a Comfort+ seat which has extra legroom. Other than that they're much the same. Seatguru is good for US carriers if you want to do more research.

 

[Royston Vasey]

That’s not saying very much though - BA have an old fleet and outdated cabins.

Yes and no. The 2000-era economy and premium economy cabins are shocking and I can't believe they've lasted so long on so many of the 777s - that said the seating itself is fairly comfortable. The very oldest 777s actually have the new interior and are perfectly fine. The dogs are the Gatwick 777s and the oldest 747s (G-BNL* and some of the G-CIV*) which they fly to African and secondary American destinations, but they are being retired very soon.

The 787s and A380s are obviously new and the refurbished 747s and 777s are excellent. The Dreamliner experience at the back is horrifically cramped but great in premium economy or above. Short haul are all Airbus A320 family (other than a few old 767-300ERs) and have all been refurbished to the same standard, including most of the ex-BMI aircraft, but they have all been "densified". So it's case of newer interior, worse experience if flying short haul or Dreamliner.