Aviation Discussion

[fowler9]

http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/15/news/air-berlin-airline-bankruptcy-etihad/index.html

Looks like AirBerlin has gone bankrupt. Etihad refused to bail them out again and so they've gone to the wall. Looks like Lufthansa might buy out bits of the business, no real indication of which bits.

I think a slush fund has been made available to get the staff and passengers through the next few weeks until a buyer or a wind-down option is available.

Blimey, it had passed me by that they were even in trouble.

 

[gsnedders]

Blimey, it had passed me by that they were even in trouble.

Massive losses year after year. It's been building to this for years.

German government have given them three-months running capital to make sure those away/about to go away aren't disrupted; will be interesting to see if they manage to avoid liquidation (and if it comes to that, what happens to tickets: I imagine customers are going to be a long way down the list of creditors!).

 

[atillathehunn]

Massive losses year after year. It's been building to this for years.

German government have given them three-months running capital to make sure those away/about to go away aren't disrupted; will be interesting to see if they manage to avoid liquidation (and if it comes to that, what happens to tickets: I imagine customers are going to be a long way down the list of creditors!).

Quite. Etihad's investments in Alitalia and now AB are turning very sour.

I'm not sure what will happen. There has been suggestion on another forum that, for example, Avios redemptions made through the BA website (and thus on 125- stock) will be honoured by BA and rebooked onto where possible, else full refund.

Not sure what will happen with cash bookings. German bankruptcy law seems to very much favour the staff being paid off. The €150m probably will just about see that through. There appears to be little clarity on what will happen next.

 

[Hornet]

Old Mikey is not too happy.

Ryanair has claimed to EU competition regulators that there is a conspiracy between the German government and Lufthansa to carve up insolvent Air Berlin.
The German government loaned Air Berlin €150 million on Tuesday after the loss of shareholder Etihad’s backing forced it to file for insolvency and it emerged that Lufthansa was bidding for parts of its business.
Ryanair complained formally to the European Commission and Germany’s competition regulator, the Bundeskartellampt, that the government and Lufthansa were conspiring to carve up Air Berlin while excluding competitors and ignoring anti-trust and state aid rules.
“This manufactured insolvency is clearly being set up to allow Lufthansa to take over a debt-free Air Berlin, which will be in breach of all known German and EU competition rules,” the Irish airline said.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business...vernment-aim-to-carve-up-air-berlin-1.3187355

 

[berneyarms]

Old Mikey is not too happy.



https://www.irishtimes.com/business...vernment-aim-to-carve-up-air-berlin-1.3187355

More free publicity!!

He's keeping Ryanair in the news!

 

[atillathehunn]

More free publicity!!

He's keeping Ryanair in the news!

An element of that, there's also an element of him making a valid point. easyJet are reportedly coming in with Lufthansa in order to satiate some of the potential problems with competition rules.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Ok what is the worst airline/aircraft you have ever flown on?

Ansett Australia just before they went bust.

A special mention to Cathay Pacific. Brilliant service but they refitted their planes and squeezed more seats in on the b747. 16 hours of cramp. There was more legroom on Easy Jet.

 

[Hornet]

An element of that, there's also an element of him making a valid point. easyJet are reportedly coming in with Lufthansa in order to satiate some of the potential problems with competition rules.

I read that Lufthansa and its subsidiary Eurowings will have 95% of the domestic German market once Air Berlin have gone.

"A merger will take Lufthansa from 68 percent to 95 percent of the German domestic market and from 47 percent to 60 percent control of the total German market, which would be in breach of every known competition threshold rule and guideline in Germany and the EU,"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air-berlin-lufthansa-ryanair-idUSKCN1AW1DC

 

[gsnedders]

Old Mikey is not too happy.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business...vernment-aim-to-carve-up-air-berlin-1.3187355

€150 million is hardly going to make Air Berlin debt free; it might cover something like 10-20% of the debt. Last I knew, they were close to a billion in the red, and I presume it's gotten worse given last year's losses.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Meanwhile… Air Britain News reveals that Pilatus PC-6 c/n 840 has been re-registered from Switzerland to Germany. Sadly, the German equivalent of the CAA doesn’t appear to have realised that they need to over-ride the automated sequential allocation of registrations, especially when they are using the D-FU.. sequence….:roll:

 

[Techniquest]

Well I'm back from my holiday. As promised, my reviews:

Friendly and welcoming staff from check in until getting off the plane. Check in was super easy to do, despite the long security queues and this was just in the Jet2 check in area. A lesson to avoid major airports in the summer holidays there!

Excellent staff on board, and I got the feeling if I needed anything it wouldn't be an issue. The B738 was in excellent condition, the red and grey colour scheme working well on the interior. I loved the excellent legroom too, my seat being 4A.

Starbucks Via coffee served on board, which had to do the job. The fold-down cup holder was a funky feature I've not seen on a plane before. I'm rather looking forward to flying Jet2 again some time.

Flybe/Stobart Air, I had an E195 for my flight to Southend which was a pleasant surprise. Excellent legroom at seat 6A, and the crew were friendly and helpful too. Kenco Rich coffee served on board, no more Starbucks Via or Nescafe Azera, happy days!

BA Cityflyer, I enjoyed my first experience with them. I've had the regular BA before, and my first E190 was a most enjoyable experience. My crew were friendly and helpful, genuinely happy to help with anything. Legroom was absolutely brilliant, my trips involved seats 22C and 24D. Complimentary refreshments still as of this week at least, and the ham and cheese panini I had on the way back, despite being microwaved and not very big, was most welcome it has to be said. How long the refreshments last is another thing, but at least I've been able to sample it before it goes. I'm keen to fly BA again it must be said after a really enjoyable flight. Except for the turbulence going out of London, that was grim!

I endured a 4h15m delay out of London City on Friday, so I'll be filing my claim for compensation later. I've got plenty to do today, but been trying to catch up on here.

20,207 miles by plane in 5 and a bit years, for me that's not bad going.

 

[atillathehunn]

Well I'm back from my holiday. As promised, my reviews:

Friendly and welcoming staff from check in until getting off the plane. Check in was super easy to do, despite the long security queues and this was just in the Jet2 check in area. A lesson to avoid major airports in the summer holidays there!

Excellent staff on board, and I got the feeling if I needed anything it wouldn't be an issue. The B738 was in excellent condition, the red and grey colour scheme working well on the interior. I loved the excellent legroom too, my seat being 4A.

Starbucks Via coffee served on board, which had to do the job. The fold-down cup holder was a funky feature I've not seen on a plane before. I'm rather looking forward to flying Jet2 again some time.

Flybe/Stobart Air, I had an E195 for my flight to Southend which was a pleasant surprise. Excellent legroom at seat 6A, and the crew were friendly and helpful too. Kenco Rich coffee served on board, no more Starbucks Via or Nescafe Azera, happy days!

BA Cityflyer, I enjoyed my first experience with them. I've had the regular BA before, and my first E190 was a most enjoyable experience. My crew were friendly and helpful, genuinely happy to help with anything. Legroom was absolutely brilliant, my trips involved seats 22C and 24D. Complimentary refreshments still as of this week at least, and the ham and cheese panini I had on the way back, despite being microwaved and not very big, was most welcome it has to be said. How long the refreshments last is another thing, but at least I've been able to sample it before it goes. I'm keen to fly BA again it must be said after a really enjoyable flight. Except for the turbulence going out of London, that was grim!

I endured a 4h15m delay out of London City on Friday, so I'll be filing my claim for compensation later. I've got plenty to do today, but been trying to catch up on here.

20,207 miles by plane in 5 and a bit years, for me that's not bad going.

Sounds like some good flights there. The E-series are very nice planes to fly on.

The compensation is determined by the arrival time rather than the departure time, though I find it hard to believe they would have made up enough time on the flight to squeak in under 3 hours late on that flight. Also ensure that compensation is not due if it was a weather delay. You were, by my calculation, a band 1 flight, so €250 is due to you. Should put a dent in the holiday fund for sure.

If they didn't give you a voucher for refreshment during the delay, ensure you submit the receipts for their duty of care obligation as well.

 

[Techniquest]

For the record, the details regarding my delayed flight:

£10 refreshment voucher issued at bag drop (that went really far, not!)

BA7303 1020 London City-Milan Linate, arrive 1315 (GMT +1) actually left at 1435, 225 minutes late and arrived at 1730, 225 minutes late.

Got to go on the BA website to start the claim, so I'm off to start that next. I also need to get on the Avios website to claim my Avios from the Flybe flight. Obviously I'll let you all know what happens with my claim.

For the record, the text BA sent on claimed "technical issues" but the pilot on the flight itself claimed BA CityFlyer were a plane short due to a plane being damaged by lightning. Two different reasons given there, but I'll see what happens. I'm cynical and suspect they'll claim it as an Act of God.

 

[atillathehunn]

For the record, the details regarding my delayed flight:

£10 refreshment voucher issued at bag drop (that went really far, not!)

BA7303 1020 London City-Milan Linate, arrive 1315 (GMT +1) actually left at 1435, 225 minutes late and arrived at 1730, 225 minutes late.

Got to go on the BA website to start the claim, so I'm off to start that next. I also need to get on the Avios website to claim my Avios from the Flybe flight. Obviously I'll let you all know what happens with my claim.

For the record, the text BA sent on claimed "technical issues" but the pilot on the flight itself claimed BA CityFlyer were a plane short due to a plane being damaged by lightning. Two different reasons given there, but I'll see what happens. I'm cynical and suspect they'll claim it as an Act of God.

If they've told you in a written message that I hope you've saved that it was because the plane went tech (slightly ironic, given your handle) then I would fight the case.

Unfortunately, in giving you the £10 they've pretty much fulfilled their duty of care obligation there so no point barking up that tree.

 

[freetoview33]

I know this won't happen! But as regards to Air Berlin "Dusseldorf" ops, it's a shame each route can't be taken over by other airlines. Here is a list of destinations and airlines that could take them over.

Air Canada Rouge: Toronto–Pearson
American Airlines: Chicago–O'Hare, Los Angeles, Miami, New York–JFK
Condor: Cancún, Havana, Puerto Plata, Punta Cana, Varadero
Delta Airlines: Boston
Easyjet: Barcelona, Berlin, Geneva, Nice, Venice
Eurowings: Curaçao, Fort Myers, Milan–Linate, Munich, Orlando, Stuttgart, Sylt
Meridiana: Olbia
Niki: Vienna, Zurich
Norwegian: Copenhagen
Ryanair: Bologna, Catania, Hamburg, Naples, Nuremberg
TUI fly Deutschland: Salzburg
United Airlines: San Francisco
Vueling: Florence, Rome–Fiumicino
WOW: Reykjavik–Keflavik

 

[atillathehunn]

I know this won't happen! But as regards to Air Berlin "Dusseldorf" ops, it's a shame each route can't be taken over by other airlines. Here is a list of destinations and airlines that could take them over.

Air Canada Rouge: Toronto–Pearson
American Airlines: Chicago–O'Hare, Los Angeles, Miami, New York–JFK
Condor: Cancún, Havana, Puerto Plata, Punta Cana, Varadero
Delta Airlines: Boston
Easyjet: Barcelona, Berlin, Geneva, Nice, Venice
Eurowings: Curaçao, Fort Myers, Milan–Linate, Munich, Orlando, Stuttgart, Sylt
Meridiana: Olbia
Niki: Vienna, Zurich
Norwegian: Copenhagen
Ryanair: Bologna, Catania, Hamburg, Naples, Nuremberg
TUI fly Deutschland: Salzburg
United Airlines: San Francisco
Vueling: Florence, Rome–Fiumicino
WOW: Reykjavik–Keflavik

I'm sure someone will pick up some of these routes, and some will just have the feed diverted to other routes. It might even be that a buyer is found prior to the dismantling of the airline, though I do think that's unlikely.

It would appear that Lufthansa and easyJet are the prime contenders.

 

[Techniquest]

If they've told you in a written message that I hope you've saved that it was because the plane went tech (slightly ironic, given your handle) then I would fight the case.

Unfortunately, in giving you the £10 they've pretty much fulfilled their duty of care obligation there so no point barking up that tree.

It's on my phone, which I also screenshot'd and it's on my Twitter too with BA tagged in it. Not worried about the duty of care thing, but MSE says to give an airline 4-12 weeks to deal with a claim before chasing it up. The sooner it gets here the better, and it'll work in BA's favour to do so as I plan to use the money to book more flights with them!

Already researching options for more exploring of Europe, got a few days in October that desperately need filling and I have my eyes on Helsinki and Copenhagen. Either that or Helsinki and Tallinn.

 

[atillathehunn]

It's on my phone, which I also screenshot'd and it's on my Twitter too with BA tagged in it. Not worried about the duty of care thing, but MSE says to give an airline 4-12 weeks to deal with a claim before chasing it up. The sooner it gets here the better, and it'll work in BA's favour to do so as I plan to use the money to book more flights with them!

Already researching options for more exploring of Europe, got a few days in October that desperately need filling and I have my eyes on Helsinki and Copenhagen. Either that or Helsinki and Tallinn.

It was posted a while ago but might still be around, but Finnair had a J class ticket London to Tallinn via Helsinki return for about £250. If you box clever the London to Helsinki bit is on an A350

 

[AlterEgo]

It was posted a while ago but might still be around, but Finnair had a J class ticket London to Tallinn via Helsinki return for about £250. If you box clever the London to Helsinki bit is on an A350

Indeed, the morning flight LHR-HEL is an A350, and if you get it on that Tallinn ticket it's probably one of the best value sectors in Europe for business class. Finnair service standards are good, and you'll have access to the lounges at all the airports.

 

[paddington]

It was posted a while ago but might still be around, but Finnair had a J class ticket London to Tallinn via Helsinki return for about £250. If you box clever the London to Helsinki bit is on an A350

This has been gone for about 2 months now. Can still get it for £400 though.

 

[Techniquest]

This has been gone for about 2 months now. Can still get it for £400 though.

Shame as that would have been an insane deal! Worth looking at though as I need an A350

 

[atillathehunn]

Shame as that would have been an insane deal! Worth looking at though as I need an A350

You can do a LHR-HEL-TLL-LHR ticket in business for £359 at the moment. Outbound from LHR is on the A350 Finnair.

Not quite as much of a bargain as the other one, but not bad. Unfortunately the return is direct to LHR, no good price on Finnair.

 

[fowler9]

You can do a LHR-HEL-TLL-LHR ticket in business for £359 at the moment. Outbound from LHR is on the A350 Finnair.

Not quite as much of a bargain as the other one, but not bad. Unfortunately the return is direct to LHR, no good price on Finnair.

Is that flying from Helsinki to Tallinn? I'd be happy getting the ferry if it was cheaper. In fact I almost wish I lived in London. No chance of a similar trip from the north west. Ha ha.

 

[atillathehunn]

Is that flying from Helsinki to Tallinn? I'd be happy getting the ferry if it was cheaper. In fact I almost wish I lived in London. No chance of a similar trip from the north west. Ha ha.

Flying from Hel to Tll on the way out direct flight back.

Finnair do fly to Manchester but no widebody

 

[thejuggler]

Having just been to Copenhagen for the second time and Tallinn for the first I would choose Tallinn every time.

It has a seaplane museum too, although I didn't get there, maybe next time.

 

[AlterEgo]

Is that flying from Helsinki to Tallinn? I'd be happy getting the ferry if it was cheaper. In fact I almost wish I lived in London. No chance of a similar trip from the north west. Ha ha.

The flight from Helsinki to Tallinn actually saves money rather than costing more when you get it on a LHR-HEL-TLL ticket. It's about 20 minutes in the air and 63 miles, the equivalent of flying from London to Swindon.

You can certainly do the trip from the north west. I am actually doing it myself in November!

MAN-LHR BA a319
LHR-HEL Finnair A350
HEL-TLL Nordic Regional ATR72
TLL-HEL Nordic Regional ATR72
HEL-MAN Finnair E-90

All in Business except the Tallinn legs which are on all-economy craft.

 

[atillathehunn]

The flight from Helsinki to Tallinn actually saves money rather than costing more when you get it on a LHR-HEL-TLL ticket. It's about 20 minutes in the air and 63 miles, the equivalent of flying from London to Swindon.

You can certainly do the trip from the north west. I am actually doing it myself in November!

MAN-LHR BA a319
LHR-HEL Finnair A350
HEL-TLL Nordic Regional ATR72
TLL-HEL Nordic Regional ATR72
HEL-MAN Finnair E-90

All in Business except the Tallinn legs which are on all-economy craft.

Yes of course you could add the domestic leg, probably for a fee.

At the moment the good bargain fare is gone, and it gets more expensive if you want to fly back via Finnair. The return on the fare I quoted is out on finnair, back on BA.

 

[Techniquest]

Having just been to Copenhagen for the second time and Tallinn for the first I would choose Tallinn every time.

I have to ask, why Tallinn over Copenhagen? My main reason for going to Copenhagen is for the rather decent sounding locos found over there, and Danish beer, if I'm honest. The rest of it has no real appeal.

I've booked the flights and hotels for my next holiday now, left myself a bit skint for the rest of the pay period but never mind, there will be ways and means to deal with that.

26th October it's Stansted to Basel with Ryanair, which even with luggage was a bargain at £27.99! 28th October I fly back from Milan Bergamo to Stansted, less of a bargain with hold luggage for £59.30, but was deemed cheaper/easier than flying home the previous night and trying to get a hotel near Stansted that would let me check in around 2330.

That'll be another two airports ticked off, although my desire to score a UK airport will have to wait until January...If anyone has any Swiss travel advice, including knowledge of a good place to buy Swiss chocolate at reasonable prices, then please get in touch.

 

[atillathehunn]

I have to ask, why Tallinn over Copenhagen? My main reason for going to Copenhagen is for the rather decent sounding locos found over there, and Danish beer, if I'm honest. The rest of it has no real appeal.

I've booked the flights and hotels for my next holiday now, left myself a bit skint for the rest of the pay period but never mind, there will be ways and means to deal with that.

26th October it's Stansted to Basel with Ryanair, which even with luggage was a bargain at £27.99! 28th October I fly back from Milan Bergamo to Stansted, less of a bargain with hold luggage for £59.30, but was deemed cheaper/easier than flying home the previous night and trying to get a hotel near Stansted that would let me check in around 2330.

That'll be another two airports ticked off, although my desire to score a UK airport will have to wait until January...If anyone has any Swiss travel advice, including knowledge of a good place to buy Swiss chocolate at reasonable prices, then please get in touch.

I really can only find one class of Danish locomotive which might be described as rateable, and I think most are now in preservation.

In Estonia and the Baltics you'll get plenty of old Soviet bits and some old German bits, probably much, much more rateable.

For chocolate, it's wise to head to the supermarket. The stuff there is for domestic consumption, so will be high quality stuff, but not at tourist prices. Going to a chocolatiere will bump the prices up a lot.

 

[fowler9]

I have to ask, why Tallinn over Copenhagen? My main reason for going to Copenhagen is for the rather decent sounding locos found over there, and Danish beer, if I'm honest. The rest of it has no real appeal.

I've booked the flights and hotels for my next holiday now, left myself a bit skint for the rest of the pay period but never mind, there will be ways and means to deal with that.

26th October it's Stansted to Basel with Ryanair, which even with luggage was a bargain at £27.99! 28th October I fly back from Milan Bergamo to Stansted, less of a bargain with hold luggage for £59.30, but was deemed cheaper/easier than flying home the previous night and trying to get a hotel near Stansted that would let me check in around 2330.

That'll be another two airports ticked off, although my desire to score a UK airport will have to wait until January...If anyone has any Swiss travel advice, including knowledge of a good place to buy Swiss chocolate at reasonable prices, then please get in touch.

Good question regarding Tallinn. You could probably clear the tram and Trolleybus network in a day. It has a really pretty old town (Including the pub Hell Hunt, ha ha). It is relatively cheap. It is really easy and quite cheap to get to Helsinki thus ticking off another country. On the down side it isn't all that when it comes to trains (Helsinki is better). In all honesty I have never been to Copenhagen (Although my mate got cheap flights to Tallinn changing in Copenhagen, ha ha). My brother found Copenhagen to be eye wateringly expensive.

Regarding Milano Bergamo airport, Ryanair are a bit cheeky calling it that, Bergamo is a different city, possibly up there with Wizzair referring to Krakow Katowice airport, the airport isn't even that close to Katowice. Ha ha.