Aviation Discussion

[atillathehunn]

Thanks, I am pleasantly surprised and can only keep my fingers crossed that it will stay active for a few more months. would be nice to get the Tri one way and the Do the other as I have yet to sample either type...

Not active every day, nor a particularly consistent pattern. Can't imagine tickets are hugely expensive though on the inter-island hops and it doesn't seem to venture much further than this.

 

[Techniquest]

I'll be taking to the skies at last next Friday, my first flights of 2017. STN-OSL and back, out next Friday and return 2 days later. Not a long trip sadly but it will do.

Not yet read that Ryanair article but about to have a look.

 

[atillathehunn]

I'll be taking to the skies at last next Friday, my first flights of 2017. STN-OSL and back, out next Friday and return 2 days later. Not a long trip sadly but it will do.

Not yet read that Ryanair article but about to have a look.

The article is extremely light on content. However the general theme is that the more bags you allow people to take on board, the more time it takes to load passengers, the more the airport charges you for being on stand.

In cases such as this you have first mover disadvantage. Completely selfishly as a heavy user of Ryanair, I hope they do not adopt the Wizz air pricing model.

Enjoy your trip to Norway, Tech.

 

[Techniquest]

Cheers, I expect it will be an awesome time! I read the article about Ryanair after my last post, I've never knowingly taken a bag onboard that's bigger than allowed. Indeed, I think I should check my bag's measurements but I'm certain it's fine. Never been an issue on my previous Ryanair flights anyway!

I'm not overly familiar with Wizz Air or their policies but it does sound a bit grim!

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I'm not overly familiar with Wizz Air or their policies but it does sound a bit grim!

Actually I found it worked very well.

You get a free small bag - underseat storage. They charge, say £10 for a large carry-on bag, or £15 for a hold bag.

End result, most people used the hold, loads of space in the overhead lockers, entry and exit to flight was quicker and easier.

I would be happy to fly with a carrier that does this.

 

[Techniquest]

The getting on and off a plane more smoothly and quickly does appeal, it has to be said. I still don't see it being popular though!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Not active every day, nor a particularly consistent pattern. Can't imagine tickets are hugely expensive though on the inter-island hops and it doesn't seem to venture much further than this.

So if I don't find myself fortunate enough to get it from Southampton to Alderney then there's the possibility of "let's all have a day out on one of the other islands" if it's operating on the hops? Hmm...

 

[gsnedders]

Actually I found it worked very well.

You get a free small bag - underseat storage. They charge, say £10 for a large carry-on bag, or £15 for a hold bag.

End result, most people used the hold, loads of space in the overhead lockers, entry and exit to flight was quicker and easier.

I would be happy to fly with a carrier that does this.

The thing that surprised me both times I flew domestically in Japan was the sheer lack of cabin baggage: almost everyone was flying with little more than a small bag. On the first I was wondering if we were going to be late when they started boarding a 777 15 minutes before push-back, but doors were closed on time.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I just think the current situation is so daft.

You have to pay to put a bag in the massive hold which is loaded quickly by experienced ground staff, or for free take a big bag onboard the flight into the limited available locker space, which takes lots of time as each person has to do it individually.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would be happy to fly with a carrier that does this.

I'd prefer to fly with a carrier that just gives you a free hold bag. It just feels like nickel-and-diming with Wizz, particularly as pre-boarding (for the exit row as you can't put your bag under the seat) is extra.

I'd be more than happy if they charged for large hand baggage but allowed a hold bag free.

 

[atillathehunn]

I'd prefer to fly with a carrier that just gives you a free hold bag. It just feels like nickel-and-diming with Wizz, particularly as pre-boarding (for the exit row as you can't put your bag under the seat) is extra.

I'd be more than happy if they charged for large hand baggage but allowed a hold bag free.

I agree with this to an extent, although my thesis is on my laptop and regardless of how many back-ups, it's my baby and it comes with my in the cabin, or both of us go in the hold. A personal (laptop sized) bag for the cabin and free hold baggage is something I could get behind.

But Wizz is a joke, I've never felt so gouged.

 

[atillathehunn]

So if I don't find myself fortunate enough to get it from Southampton to Alderney then there's the possibility of "let's all have a day out on one of the other islands" if it's operating on the hops? Hmm...

Not being held responsible for any domestic/marital dispute arising from this

 

[Bletchleyite]

But Wizz is a joke, I've never felt so gouged.

Wizz is an utterly awful airline. Old-style Ryanair (before the nicey nicey thing), but in sickly pink and purple. And the worst legroom in the business (possibly except charters).

 

[WestCoast]

Wizz is an utterly awful airline. Old-style Ryanair (before the nicey nicey thing), but in sickly pink and purple. And the worst legroom in the business (possibly except charters).

Not even the two beers for a fiver on Wizz can make up for those snug A321s...

 

[fowler9]

Regarding paying for hold luggage, and this is just a guess, I reckon the airlines have factored in paying the wages of the person who checks the bags in, the driver of the tug that takes them out to the plane, the wages of the bag throwers and the equipment needed to do this, perhaps even the extra cost of fuel for the larger bags/cases.

Like I say this is purely a guess.

 

[atillathehunn]

Regarding paying for hold luggage, and this is just a guess, I reckon the airlines have factored in paying the wages of the person who checks the bags in, the driver of the tug that takes them out to the plane, the wages of the bag throwers and the equipment needed to do this, perhaps even the extra cost of fuel for the larger bags/cases.

Like I say this is purely a guess.

The evidence presented in the Ryanair article suggests there is a correlation between number of bags in the cabin and gate delays.

Therefore there is a case to be made for making a direct comparison between the gate costs vs the handling costs.

To make this comparison we need:

1) Cost of gate delays
2) Handling cost of the 'men down under' and whether this is per bag or flat fee per aircraft (got to imagine it's a per bag cost really)
3) Baggage revenues

We then make a calculation to see whether the efficiency of the paid professionals in getting the plane away on time (not withstanding a tendency to slam tugs into the side of aircraft) offsets the additional stand delays.

I'm sure they are making these calculations, and assuming a profit-seeking motive we conclude that at the moment the balance is still in favour of the SLF carry-on model. It seems like Ryanair aren't confident that this will remain the case forever.

 

[dosxuk]

Regarding paying for hold luggage, and this is just a guess, I reckon the airlines have factored in paying the wages of the person who checks the bags in, the driver of the tug that takes them out to the plane, the wages of the bag throwers and the equipment needed to do this, perhaps even the extra cost of fuel for the larger bags/cases.

Like I say this is purely a guess.

I'd guess the cost (to the airline) of using the airport facilities (baggage belts, sorting, storage) far outweighs the manpower costs.

 

[fowler9]

I'd guess the cost (to the airline) of using the airport facilities (baggage belts, sorting, storage) far outweighs the manpower costs.

I did mention the equipment needed. I'm not sure that the facilities cost more to put in place and run than the wages of the staff. If paying people to do stuff manually was cheaper then society wouldn't be automating everything. Thats just my thought.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I think they brought hold charges in as a price gouge, thinking that most people would pay and cabin baggage wouldn't change, but they don't want to row back from that position. Eventually delays mean they probably will have to.

 

[theageofthetra]

The thing that surprised me both times I flew domestically in Japan was the sheer lack of cabin baggage: almost everyone was flying with little more than a small bag. On the first I was wondering if we were going to be late when they started boarding a 777 15 minutes before push-back, but doors were closed on time.

The same on their trains- they all use the luggage forwarding services which are everywhere and very cheap & efficient.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I think they brought hold charges in as a price gouge, thinking that most people would pay and cabin baggage wouldn't change, but they don't want to row back from that position. Eventually delays mean they probably will have to.

I disagree. Baggage handling adds significant costs, and the LCCs were all about minimising costs. Also baggage handling takes time - the less hold baggage that needs loading and unloading, the quicker the turnaround time can be.

Having more passengers handling their own baggage was the desired outcome.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think Ryanair were actually proposing to do away with hold baggage and provide train-style racks for bigger stuff until security was tightened.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Also baggage handling takes time - the less hold baggage that needs loading and unloading, the quicker the turnaround time can be.

True, I think there was a certain amount of nudging passengers to not check hold luggage in unless they had to, but I think it was mostly about charging for a service that they expected the vast majority of people to use. There has never been sufficient room in the cabin for everyone to take one piece of cabin baggage, but people are increasingly deciding to pack light and buy toiletries abroad to save the hold luggage fees.

Ryanair now have to have hold baggage services for all the cabin bags that don't fit in the cabin, except instead of it being organised at a bag drop desk it's a free-for-all at the gate. Ryanair, at least, are relatively efficient in dealing with this. Last time I flew BA from Newcastle it took 25 minutes to get the doors closed because of all the cabin bags that had to be transferred, and it wasn't much better on Aer Lingus.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I guess no-one expected the massive popularity of the 'cabin bag', made to exact legal limits of the cabin bag specifications.

Particularly on holiday flights I think a lot of people use them to supplement their hold bags as well, since you often see people wheeling large and small suitcases toward a flight. In which case, offering people a chance to check in both at the desk for the price of one would not really add much more to the load handling crews and save space in the overheads for passengers with hand luggage only.

 

[AndrewP]

Actually I found it worked very well.

You get a free small bag - underseat storage. They charge, say £10 for a large carry-on bag, or £15 for a hold bag.

End result, most people used the hold, loads of space in the overhead lockers, entry and exit to flight was quicker and easier.

I would be happy to fly with a carrier that does this.

Got to agree with this - I find that WizzAir are a really good airline and, although they have their own ideas on doing things, the service is very efficient. However, if I recall, if you upgrade your seat you get the large bag included so the marginal cost is negligible.

 

[ModernRailways]

Just spotted this on BBC news.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04w09wh

'British Airways to cut legroom on planes'

 

[LordCreed]

Just spotted this on BBC news.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04w09wh

'British Airways to cut legroom on planes'

Never actually flown with BA, but I've not heard amazing things about them (Air France of Lufthansa for the win ) The BBC article here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39184179 seems to suggest less legroom than even Ryan Air.

I'm wondering, that unless their prices decrease drastically, are they actually setting themselves up to fail?

 

[fowler9]

Just spotted this on BBC news.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04w09wh

'British Airways to cut legroom on planes'

Also read they are going to change 777's to 10 across.

 

[Butts]

Just spotted this on BBC news.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04w09wh

'British Airways to cut legroom on planes'

Should that not be some planes ?

Brings them into line with Easyjet who everyone on here seems to love !!!

Will this Aviation "Race to the bottom" ever end ? :cry:

 

[ld0595]

I've decided to just quit BA entirely and move to going direct with United. I was really unimpressed with my flight to EDI via LHR from the US on a cramped old 777 with a dodgy IFE headphone jack. Add in the fact that I only got one meal, I was quite upset with the experience.

I've heard good things about United, although I'm a little apprehensive about flying a 757 transatlantic due to the lack of aisle space! However I am now willing to pay more to go direct. Previously I would always choose BA to PHL over the direct flight to Newark, but the recent cuts have led me to change my mind.