Aviation Discussion

[Butts]

In just under 165 hours time (well, 164 hours UK time) I'll have finished my first ever BA flight. BA2658 for the flight number if anyone fancies following it next Monday, and BA2659 for the return a week on Thursday. Wish me luck all, I hope I won't spend the whole journey wishing I was on Ryanair...I am optimistic that I'll be trying to get on another BA flight sharpish!

I find it odd I can't check in online until 24 hours in advance. Thankfully I have the BA app on my phone ready...

Off to Vienna then ? - Don't miss the cake and coffee

 

[Techniquest]

Trust me Butts I'll ensure I take advantage of some complimentary refreshments if they're offered!

 

[atillathehunn]

I rather think Butts meant the coffee and cake for which Vienna is famous, rather than the BA freebies.

 

[me123]

Yeah. Don't miss out on BA's (soon to be gone?) complimentary offer. But definitely take full advantage of the culinary delights of Wien.

 

[Techniquest]

Ah, the thought crossed my mind after I hit the button, I shall have to investigate this famous coffee and cake!

I've already packed nearly all my stuff for the trip, which is ridiculously early even for me. Anyone interested, the hashtag for the trip is #TechsInVienna and there will be a full trip report in my trip report thread. The BA experience, of course, will be discussed on this thread too.

 

[WestCoast]

Yes it may well be Techniquest's first and last BA flight where the freebies are there for the taking. The much improved M&S catering will be rolled out in January and means passengers can eat well onboard.

 

[Airline Man]

Ryanair are recruiting!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...kin-saint-like-patience-aversion-b-ology.html

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes it may well be Techniquest's first and last BA flight where the freebies are there for the taking. The much improved M&S catering will be rolled out in January and means passengers can eat well onboard.

TBH I'm probably in favour of paid-for catering - it allows fewer people (who want it) to be served something they might actually want.

OTOH, I'm not in favour of cramming more seats in. Particularly as BA having Business Class means the Economy seats will be even tighter together than easyJet (unless the sole reason for business class is a free sarny, in which case what's the point?).

Carolyn McCall must be laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Butts]

I rather think Butts meant the coffee and cake for which Vienna is famous, rather than the BA freebies.

You obviously don't know me very well....

Seriously enjoy your packet of crisps and Coffee and Scotch on the BA Flight unless you are on one of the few remaining Breakfast Flights.

Also Vienna but be prepared to "pay through the nose"
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes it may well be Techniquest's first and last BA flight where the freebies are there for the taking. The much improved M&S catering will be rolled out in January and means passengers can eat well onboard.

It wouldn't take much to improve on a packet of peanuts , it might be noted that a few years ago you used to be able to eat reasonably well onboard for nowt
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

]TBH I'm probably in favour of paid-for catering - it allows fewer people (who want it) to be served something they might actually want.[/B]

OTOH, I'm not in favour of cramming more seats in. Particularly as BA having Business Class means the Economy seats will be even tighter together than easyJet (unless the sole reason for business class is a free sarny, in which case what's the point?).

Carolyn McCall must be laughing all the way to the bank.

Speak for yourself do you apply that maxim to drinks as well ? Why not give people a choice ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yeah. Don't miss out on BA's (soon to be gone?) complimentary offer. But definitely take full advantage of the culinary delights of Wien.

Hanging on a little longer on London City Flights.

 

[Airline Man]

BA's newish Chief Executive is from Vuelling. He's just doing at BA what he did in Spain. There are no new ideas just recycled ones. Having paid for food in Economy and cramming more seats in in Gatwick's long haul product is very unpopular with the front line staff who have to put up with the complaints.

If passengers don't like it, they should write in and complain. Unfortunately though the budget airlines call the shots these days, once passengers get the idea of near non existent service levels in return for a cheap fare the full service carriers start to go down that path as well.

 

[Butts]

BA's newish Chief Executive is from Vuelling. He's just doing at BA what he did in Spain. There are no new ideas just recycled ones. Having paid for food in Economy and cramming more seats in in Gatwick's long haul product is very unpopular with the front line staff who have to put up with the complaints.

If passengers don't like it, they should write in and complain. Unfortunately though the budget airlines call the shots these days, once passengers get the idea of near non existent service levels in return for a cheap fare the full service carriers start to go down that path as well.

Although I don't agree with the abolition of free food and drinks in Economy my view is that it should make the staff's job easier. You should see how quickly a trolley makes it's way down Flybe aisles where you have to pay and most people don't stick their hands in their pockets.

 

[Techniquest]

That's true, although you'd be amazed how slow that trolley goes on Ryanair in my experience! Particularly on busy flights, depending where you are on the plane you may not get served before landing procedures begin.

139 hours as of typing this until I'm on the plane, looking forward to it despite it being an Airbus A319!

As for Ryanair recruiting, that's actually genuinely very interesting. One needs to look at that...

 

[Butts]

That's true, although you'd be amazed how slow that trolley goes on Ryanair in my experience! Particularly on busy flights, depending where you are on the plane you may not get served before landing procedures begin.

139 hours as of typing this until I'm on the plane, looking forward to it despite it being an Airbus A319!

As for Ryanair recruiting, that's actually genuinely very interesting. One needs to look at that...

If you check in at the airport using a machine you might be able to blag an exit seat free of charge

 

[Techniquest]

I'll just take whatever they give me I suspect, besides the legroom may be just fine anyway!

 

[WestCoast]

BA's newish Chief Executive is from Vuelling. He's just doing at BA what he did in Spain. There are no new ideas just recycled ones. Having paid for food in Economy and cramming more seats in in Gatwick's long haul product is very unpopular with the front line staff who have to put up with the complaints.

If passengers don't like it, they should write in and complain. Unfortunately though the budget airlines call the shots these days, once passengers get the idea of near non existent service levels in return for a cheap fare the full service carriers start to go down that path as well.

As long as BA doesn't follow Vueling's record when it comes to operational reliability, this being the airline that seems to go into meltdown each peak summer season. I was booked on their inagural Luton to Zurich service in June which was cancelled and I was rerouted via Barcelona on two flights that ended up over three hours late each...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's true, although you'd be amazed how slow that trolley goes on Ryanair in my experience! Particularly on busy flights, depending where you are on the plane you may not get served before landing procedures begin.

139 hours as of typing this until I'm on the plane, looking forward to it despite it being an Airbus A319!

As for Ryanair recruiting, that's actually genuinely very interesting. One needs to look at that...

On the 4h15m flights from the UK to Canaries I've taken the trolleys on easyJet/Ryanair/Jet2/Norwegian have hardly been out of the aisle with lots of holidaymakers in spend mode!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Speak for yourself do you apply that maxim to drinks as well ? Why not give people a choice ?

Erm, chargeable food and drink *is* giving people a choice - have it and pay for it, or don't have it and don't pay for it. The traditional approach is a rather less attractive choice of have it or don't have it but pay for it anyway.

 

[Butts]

Erm, chargeable food and drink *is* giving people a choice - have it and pay for it, or don't have it and don't pay for it. The traditional approach is a rather less attractive choice of have it or don't have it but pay for it anyway.

People might have been craving a greater choice of food (or indeed any) but are you seriously suggesting they also wanted to pay for the same drinks that were formally free?

I'd like to see the market research on that one :roll:

 

[gsnedders]

Erm, chargeable food and drink *is* giving people a choice - have it and pay for it, or don't have it and don't pay for it. The traditional approach is a rather less attractive choice of have it or don't have it but pay for it anyway.

That's only true if the fares go down as a result, really. Because otherwise I've gone from paying for it to paying the same and not getting it.

 

[WestCoast]

People might have been craving a greater choice of food (or indeed any) but are you seriously suggesting they also wanted to pay for the same drinks that were formally free?

I'd like to see the market research on that one :roll:

I do wonder if BA could have kept complimentary tea/coffee/mineral water like Scandinavian Airlines do on their European services, that would have at least been a slight differentiator over the budget airlines. Also quite surprised that they've opted to included the longer flights like London to Athens/Istanbul in this buy on board programme which seems starkly uncompetitive against the likes of Aegean and Turkish providing a full hot meal and bar.

 

[Butts]

That's only true if the fares go down as a result, really. Because otherwise I've gone from paying for it to paying the same and not getting it.

Which they won't anyway.

The whole concept was based on the fact people had expressed a wish for a greater choice (or any) when it came to food hence bringing M&S onboard and charging.

However when asked if people had expressed for a greater choice of alcohol / beverages and wished to pay for it surprisingly there was deathly silence from BA.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I do wonder if BA could have kept complimentary tea/coffee/mineral water like Scandinavian Airlines do on their European services, that would have at least been a slight differentiator over the budget airlines. Also quite surprised that they've opted to included the longer flights like London to Athens/Istanbul in this buy on board programme which seems starkly uncompetitive against the likes of Aegean and Turkish providing a full hot meal and bar.

The Tea/Coffee may remain and be trumpeted as though it is some form of improvement in service - notwithstanding the fact the current cups are more like thimbles.

 

[Techniquest]

To be in line with the tiny cups you get on the continent then!

 

[Bletchleyite]

People might have been craving a greater choice of food (or indeed any) but are you seriously suggesting they also wanted to pay for the same drinks that were formally free?

They weren't free. They were included in the price.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

To be in line with the tiny cups you get on the continent then!

I'd rather pay £2.50 and get a proper-sized cup, full 330ml can of Coke or whatever.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The whole concept was based on the fact people had expressed a wish for a greater choice (or any) when it came to food hence bringing M&S onboard and charging.

Partly. It's also based on the fact that Sleasy and Ryan are trouncing them on domestic and European routes, and to cut fares they will also need to change their cost base. That bit they're unsurprisingly not shouting about, but the cramming in of more seats makes it abundantly clear.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's only true if the fares go down as a result, really. Because otherwise I've gone from paying for it to paying the same and not getting it.

Because air fares aren't as simple (ha!) as rail fares, it will be difficult to tell, but most likely there will be an effect on fares as that will be the main purpose of it - to compete more effectively with the low-costs.

 

[rf_ioliver]

To be in line with the tiny cups you get on the continent then!

Serve coffee in a tiny cup here in Finland and there'll be trouble!



t.

Ian

 

[Techniquest]

Serve coffee in a tiny cup here in Finland and there'll be trouble!



t.

Ian

Good to hear you guys have your heads screwed on in Finland, that bumps up a visit for me. Surprisingly difficult to get to Helsinki from the Midlands mind!

 

[Tetchytyke]

This is a pity. I was on a ten-abreast 777 flight recently and it was a grim experience.

I'll be honest, the Emirates 777s are s bit snug but they're not that bad, but you really do feel the loss of the inch compared to the A380s.

BA are just turning into a crappy Norwegian mind.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Erm, chargeable food and drink *is* giving people a choice - have it and pay for it, or don't have it and don't pay for it. The traditional approach is a rather less attractive choice of have it or don't have it but pay for it anyway.

I preferit to the new approach of "pay for it, then pay six quid again for it"...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'll be honest, the Emirates 777s are s bit snug but they're not that bad, but you really do feel the loss of the inch compared to the A380s.

I'm not a small person (quite the opposite) and was booked on an Air Canada 777 with 10 across. To my great surprise, while it wasn't as nice as a 9-across one (which is *very* comfortable - Malaysia Airlines 777 Economy at 9-across with 34" pitch is the most comfortable Economy Class I've experienced on any airline) it really wasn't bad. If I was given a choice of 9 across with a tighter pitch or 10 across with a more generous pitch I'd choose 10.

The 9-across 787s seem a bit of a joke, though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

BA are just turning into a crappy Norwegian mind.

The more time progresses, the more I can't see why I wouldn't just fly easyJet. The only one reason I can now see is Heathrow, which for many people is better located than Luton or Gatwick, and T5 is better than Luton or Gatwick.

If the third runway (no doubt including a world-class new terminal as good as T2 or T5) means easyJet opens up a base at Heathrow, which I believe they intend to do, I can see no reason for BA short-haul to exist any more. They might as well just pack up, flog the aircraft off and get into a codeshare agreement with easyJet and Flymaybe.

 

[WestCoast]

The more time progresses, the more I can't see why I wouldn't just fly easyJet. The only one reason I can now see is Heathrow, which for many people is better located than Luton or Gatwick, and T5 is better than Luton or Gatwick..

In my experience, BA is pretty competitive on price with easyJet out of Gatwick on the routes where they directly compete. I booked Amsterdam to Gatwick last year and BA was only about a fiver more expensive so I flew BA. It's the prestige factor.

A lot of holidaymakers continue to fly Monarch simply because of the 'prestige' attached to the brand even though they have always been a bit of a pile 'em in and fly them to the sunshine type operation.

 

[Puffing Devil]

A lot of holidaymakers continue to fly Monarch simply because of the 'prestige' attached to the brand even though they have always been a bit of a pile 'em in and fly them to the sunshine type operation.

I've never seen "Monarch" and "prestige" in the same sentence before!

 

[atillathehunn]

I've never seen "Monarch" and "prestige" in the same sentence before!

You took the words out of my mouth!

Are we thinking of the same Monarch?! Or is the Queen giving piggy backs now?

Drunken kindergarten with wings.

 

[WestCoast]

I've never seen "Monarch" and "prestige" in the same sentence before!

When your competitors are Jet2 and Ryanair.....Monarch is the classy one.

Back in the '90s, Monarch actually did use to have the Monarch Scheduled Crown Service which was known as the gold standard of leisure travel and was easily on a par with what BA provide on leisure routes now, probably better. Nowadays not so much.