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atillathehunn

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I'll see what's available on the spot; if it's too high a price I can always book ahead there and then at the desk and take a chance on the weather. Spoken to my daughter this evening and she's happy with that strategy, so we'll turn up and see what's available but won't necessarily expect to fly the same day - although we will be prepared for that just in case.

I'm not ruling out a short haul European flight either if there's a better price and availability.

The weather is unlikely to be the same all the way through either the UK or Europe. Pick up a cheap flight to France, Italy, Spain or somewhere warm - better chance of clear skies and a view. You'll always get cloud somewhere. Make a weekend of it.

As others have said, you'll get hosed on the price and the seat selection. Much better to do it in advance, you'll get a view somewhere.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Why do you consider FRA a nightmare? Have never had any problems when sing it.

Long walks, clunky transfer, miserable, gloomy, inter-terminal connections rubbish, beer worse than at Munich. All this could be said of Heathrow though, too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It's been rumoured for ages and ages, but British Airways have confirmed that they are moving to a Buy on Board model for their UK Domestic and EU short haul flights. Instead of a complimentary drink or two on board, they'll now be charging £6 for a G&T.

Quite why anyone would choose to pay BA prices for EU short haul now they're offering Ryanair service is quite beyond me.

http://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/food-and-drink/short-haul-economy-dining

Bah, I have a short haul flight booked for a few days after the change.

It's not a shock, but it really is a poor move. Branding yourself as a full service airline and then cutting this basic service back. Even SAS gives you free tea and coffee.

SN Brussels do BOB, but they offer you freebies if you are connecting on to a long haul flight - a much better strategy to not alienate your customers.

Unless they drastically reduce prices they will be ignored in favour of easyjet (punctual) or Ryanair (cheap), and their domestic/short haul operation will be turned into a transfer funnel into their long haul operation. But this model of just shuttling people into their short haul failed badly with Little Red. Appreciating Virgin have a smaller footprint at LHR, it's still a little odd.
 
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Butts

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I didn't realise BA's decision to axe free food (or snack) and drinks on short haul flights would cause such a stir.

I have been ploughing through the 1500 or so mainly adverse responses on the Guardian Website.

People keep referring to BA's twitter responses about customer demand for a wider product offering being the reason for the change. Unfortunately no one is able to find these "phantom customers"

The packet of peanuts or crisps withdrawal seems to have had less of an impact than the removal of free beverages, particularly alcohol. I was wondering if anyone had asked them whether this change of policy was also related to customer demand and what their response was.

I can't believe even BA would have the temerity to argue they were responding to public demand by taking this course of action.
 

Techniquest

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I'm glad I'm flying with BA to Vienna next month and not trying the airline out next year now!

As someone said in an earlier response, Ryanair will see more of my custom!
 

Peter Mugridge

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The weather is unlikely to be the same all the way through either the UK or Europe. Pick up a cheap flight to France, Italy, Spain or somewhere warm - better chance of clear skies and a view. You'll always get cloud somewhere. Make a weekend of it.

As others have said, you'll get hosed on the price and the seat selection. Much better to do it in advance, you'll get a view somewhere.

Yes I do realise that the weather varies by location - I do personally already have 60 hours in the air myself... :)

Probably will book in advance, but at the desk at Heathrow rather than at home.

It would still be a day trip though; I don't want to include luggage or hotels into the mix. Keep it simple - straight out, straight back.
 

atillathehunn

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Yes I do realise that the weather varies by location - I do personally already have 60 hours in the air myself... :)

Probably will book in advance, but at the desk at Heathrow rather than at home.

It would still be a day trip though; I don't want to include luggage or hotels into the mix. Keep it simple - straight out, straight back.

I mention the weather because you seemed to want to decide on the day - but on the day you wouldn't have much choice over destination, and no option to research the weather... +the view is always good above the clouds...

But why go to Heathrow? Online gives you so, so, so much flexibility, and means you don't have to go to Heathrow.

At least pick a destination where you can leave the airport for the day and enjoy a city.
 

Hornet

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I don't know what all the fuss is about on board catering for short sectors. I always get a meal deal at the airport to take on the plane. Used to get a three course meal on BMI or Virgin Cityjet on LHR/LCY to DUB sectors in the 80's and 90's. Pleasant though it was, I preferred cheaper flight prices than in flight meals. Even Ryanair did complementary drinks in it's early days. I see no problem that if you want (vastly overpriced) food and drink on short haul you pay for it.
 

atillathehunn

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I didn't realise BA's decision to axe free food (or snack) and drinks on short haul flights would cause such a stir.

I have been ploughing through the 1500 or so mainly adverse responses on the Guardian Website.

People keep referring to BA's twitter responses about customer demand for a wider product offering being the reason for the change. Unfortunately no one is able to find these "phantom customers"

The packet of peanuts or crisps withdrawal seems to have had less of an impact than the removal of free beverages, particularly alcohol. I was wondering if anyone had asked them whether this change of policy was also related to customer demand and what their response was.

I can't believe even BA would have the temerity to argue they were responding to public demand by taking this course of action.

They have been relentlessly degrading the product offered over the course of several months, then asked people whether they want to continue this nonsense or have BOB...

If you want to be an LCC, be an LCC. But charge LCC prices. From the regions you are now just turning people away - a layover in Heathrow, no freebies, and expensive. Why not just fly direct now and stop pretending there's value in going BA. Easyjet Flexi and BA now offer the same service at the same price, sans layover, and pretty decent route coverage.

It's not the food I object to, just give me back the booze trolley and I'm a happy camper.

I think most of the objection is down to the fact that this is not a move to equalise with other European legacy carriers, many of whom serve reasonable offerings on European short haul (though not all). But Lufty and Air France among others still do. Hurt again by the fact BA is turning a profit.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I don't know what all the fuss is about on board catering for short sectors. I always get a meal deal at the airport to take on the plane. Used to get a three course meal on BMI or Virgin Cityjet on LHR/LCY to DUB sectors in the 80's and 90's. Pleasant though it was, I preferred cheaper flight prices than in flight meals. Even Ryanair did complementary drinks in it's early days. I see no problem that if you want (vastly overpriced) food and drink on short haul you pay for it.

Sure. Take away the food and drink on band 1 flights. But this is all short haul. Which includes Istanbul, Athens and Kiev.

TK offer a really very good food offering on UK-IST flights. A3 offer pretty reasonable food on their LHR/MAN-ATH flights.

When you pay legacy prices, you expect service.
 

Butts

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So has anyone asked them directly on twitter why they have removed the free drinks and if so what has the response been ?

As I mentioned before the "customer demand" line would be stretching it a bit even for them on this decision.
 

Tim R-T-C

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So has anyone asked them directly on twitter why they have removed the free drinks and if so what has the response been ?

As I mentioned before the "customer demand" line would be stretching it a bit even for them on this decision.

Presumably they would say that cost of flights will be going down more than cost of drink and snack so people have choice to buy if they want or zave money.
 

Butts

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Presumably they would say that cost of flights will be going down more than cost of drink and snack so people have choice to buy if they want or zave money.

They are not reducing the price of flights as far as I am aware. As I understand it on Twitter you can ask them a direct open question and they will respond.

Has anyone asked them why they are withdrawing free drinks as this has nothing to do with choice or improved quality. It seems the obvious question to pose - well to me at least :p
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Customers say they would rather have more choice and pay for it blah blah blah zzzz.

I'm talking about drinks not food :idea:
 

Peter Mugridge

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I mention the weather because you seemed to want to decide on the day - but on the day you wouldn't have much choice over destination, and no option to research the weather... +the view is always good above the clouds...

But why go to Heathrow? Online gives you so, so, so much flexibility, and means you don't have to go to Heathrow.


On the first point, I have said more than once that if I do end up booking ahead I'll have to take a chance on the weather...

For the second point, firstly it's the most convenient airport for us and secondly my daughter has specifically asked to be able to fly over London at night.

( If I do book ahead at the counter at Heathrow, then they could presumably handle bookings for any BA flight anyway rather than just those from Heathrow? )
 

Butts

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They are not reducing the price of flights as far as I am aware. As I understand it on Twitter you can ask them a direct open question and they will respond.

Has anyone asked them why they are withdrawing free drinks as this has nothing to do with choice or improved quality. It seems the obvious question to pose - well to me at least :p
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I'm talking about drinks not food :idea:

Anyone interested in this "Flyer Talk" has far more contributors with an interest - there is an Arctic Troll present wonder if it is the same person as on RailUK Forums ?
 

Tetchytyke

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Probably will book in advance, but at the desk at Heathrow rather than at home.

If you book into the higher price tiers I believe you can get free changes on the day of travel, should the weather be really awful.

Hornet said:
I don't know what all the fuss is about on board catering for short sectors.

For me, i's more about charging legacy prices for LCC service. If BA want to be a LCC like Vueling then they should charge LCC prices.

Anyone interested in this "Flyer Talk" has far more contributors with an interest - there is an Arctic Troll present wonder if it is the same person as on RailUK Forums ?

That'd be telling :lol:
 

stut

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Oh, it's the standard nonsense.

CUSTOMER SURVEY

1. Do you like choice?

a) Yes
b) No

Oh look, they all chose 'yes'. Let's replace our catering with buy-on-board, make them pay to sit together on long-haul flights, etc, etc.
 

Bletchleyite

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In reality, the "choice" is more like:

Customers want lower fares. They are showing this by moving to our low cost competitors. Therefore we need to cut costs.

FWIW, I do actually support the move re free food, which odds on on a short-haul flight I don't actually want and therefore see no need to pay for, same with First Class on the train, which I'd rather was more reasonably priced and consisted simply of a wider seat. Drinks are different - they could have kept that. Though three quid each way on the cost of a trip is really neither here nor there, so I don't care that much, and the advantage of it not being free is that not everyone purchases so service is quicker and more attentive.

It does mean, however, that the only differentiator is now Heathrow. If easyJet get in at Heathrow, as they are trying to do, then that could actually kill BA's short-haul operation entirely. And I see no reason at all other than through ticketing to fly BA to/from Gatwick now, unless they are cheaper than Easy.
 
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Tetchytyke

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Customers want lower fares. They are showing this by moving to our low cost competitors. Therefore we need to cut costs.

There are two big fallacies with this attitude:

1. It assumes that everyone currently flying EasyJet or Ryanair will switch back to BA because they're three quid cheaper.
2. It assumes that everyone currently flying BA will continue to do so even when the service deteriorates.

As I've said elsewhere, going toe-to-toe with Ryanair or EasyJet on price when you're a legacy airline flying out of Heathrow is like taking a peashooter to a gunfight. FR and U2 will blow anyone who tries to take them on on price clean out of the water.

If people are choosing to fly BA it is because BA offer something that the LCCs don't. Lounges, frequent flier miles and Heathrow's connectivity will be the reason for some; complimentary bar service will be the reason for others. But each time you enhance away a differentiator you take away a reason for someone to buy your premium service. I suspect that lounge access for short haul passengers will be the next enhancement, after recent changes to Avios.

EasyJet are not only cheaper on fares, they're now also cheaper on board: an EasyJet G&T is 50p cheaper and they use a premium tonic brand. It's the little things that count sometimes.
 

Bletchleyite

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EasyJet are not only cheaper on fares, they're now also cheaper on board: an EasyJet G&T is 50p cheaper and they use a premium tonic brand. It's the little things that count sometimes.

I think the use of premium brands for this kind of thing is very clever. I feel a bit ripped off paying £2 for a cup of Maxpax, but I don't mind paying £2.50 or even £3 if it is good quality filter or bean to cup coffee (provided the machine is cleaned properly). I think BA may have realised this with the choice of M&S sandwiches, FWIW, though you're right about the tonic.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If people are choosing to fly BA it is because BA offer something that the LCCs don't. Lounges, frequent flier miles

FWIW, I doubt many business owners would rue the passing of frequent flyer miles. They exist to bribe people to influence their choice of flights when on company business, and to give them a benefit that were it almost anything else would be taxable. Anywhere else it would be seen as mildly corrupt :)
 

Tetchytyke

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FWIW, I doubt many business owners would rue the passing of frequent flyer miles. They exist to bribe people to influence their choice of flights when on company business

But it's these business passengers that the airlines need. Ryanair and EasyJet have now come to this conclusion too, which is why regular fliers on both those airlines get perks like complimentary priority boarding and exit row seats.

Any fool can fill a plane with passengers paying ten quid a ticket. The challenge is making that plane turn a profit. Ryanair manage it because they know enough people will pay for extra things if the fare is a tenner. BA are trying to ape the same model, with HBO fares, a flat £5 credit card fee, charges for seat selection and a pay bar, but they're not charging ten quid a ticket.
 

Bletchleyite

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But it's these business passengers that the airlines need. Ryanair and EasyJet have now come to this conclusion too, which is why regular fliers on both those airlines get perks like complimentary priority boarding and exit row seats.

No they don't, or not on easyJet anyway. (I am one of those "regular fliers" and a member of the invite-only regular flyer club).

http://www.easyjet.com/en/help/booking/flight-club

They can purchase a Plus card, but so can anybody.
 

atillathehunn

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No they don't, or not on easyJet anyway. (I am one of those "regular fliers" and a member of the invite-only regular flyer club).

http://www.easyjet.com/en/help/booking/flight-club

They can purchase a Plus card, but so can anybody.

You do get these perks if you purchase a Flexi fare, which is now going head to head against BA.

You get baggage
Date change
2 pieces of hand baggage
£5 towards food and drink
Fast track at some airports
Dedicated check in

As both you and I have both said on this thread, now the only differentiator between Easy and BA is Heathrow (on short haul).

SAS, which really is the pits in terms of service, even offers tea and coffee free of charge.

If the new runway is allocated to Gatwick allowing expansion of services from there, the opportunities for Easyjet and Ryanair to kill off BA is huge. Especially since the connection is just as easy to London (especially the City).
 

Butts

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Blimey that Flyer Talk Forum is full of big hitters....makes this forum see small time. From what I can see most of the contributors have elite status with a lot of Airlines and the vagaries of various classes of flight and status are mystical to the likes of me. :oops:

Virgin 1st Class Lounge access with my cheapo tickets are a world away from their experiences.

A different league entirely :idea:
 

Tetchytyke

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Blimey that Flyer Talk Forum is full of big hitters....makes RailUK Forums see small time.

People with more money than sense. We get excited about a day trip to Berwick upon Tweed, they'll do a run to Honolulu just for the Avios.

:eek:
 

AlterEgo

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Blimey that Flyer Talk Forum is full of big hitters....makes RailUK Forums see small time. From what I can see most of the contributors have elite status with a lot of Airlines and the vagaries of various classes of flight and status are mystical to the likes of me. :oops:

Virgin 1st Class Lounge access with my cheapo tickets are a world away from their experiences.

A different league entirely :idea:

They're not really a different league.

I have top tier status with all three airline alliances but I'm just a regular guy really. A lot of smoke and mirrors (and some very frustrated and insecure middle aged men) on FT.
 

Peter Mugridge

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If you book into the higher price tiers I believe you can get free changes on the day of travel, should the weather be really awful.

Figuring that as we'll be faced with booking for another day anyway if we do just turn up, I had a word with my daughter today and what we're going to do is go along to the BA sales desk at Terminal 5 at some point this weekend and try to book for the day we originally had in mind - and hope that there will be a decent level of clear sky on that day...
 

fowler9

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Check out the flight reviews on Airliners.net. Quite how so many plane buffs fly first class so often is beyond me. Interesting reads though.
 

Butts

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They're not really a different league.

I have top tier status with all three airline alliances but I'm just a regular guy really. A lot of smoke and mirrors (and some very frustrated and insecure middle aged men) on FT.

So how does an Airline 1st Class Lounge compare to an East Coast One ? - a bit more than a Coffee Machine and some biscuits ? :p

Have you been in the Concorde Lounge at Heathrow T5 or JFK ?
 

fowler9

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So how does an Airline 1st Class Lounge compare to an East Coast One ? - a bit more than a Coffee Machine and some biscuits ? :p

Have you been in the Concorde Lounge at Heathrow T5 or JFK ?

Agreed. forgive me if I am wrong but Airline first class lounges have massage parlours, as much booze as you can drink and waiters getting you whatever food you ask for. Virgins first class lounge at Lime Street has free water. :D
 

atillathehunn

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There are plenty in there who also use daily manufactured spending on credit cards to get their status.
There are those who spend time and money doing tier point runs to engineer status that way.
There are those who fly for business a lot (not always in premium classes), and then spend a few of their pennies upgrading the flights.
Then there are just some rich people.

I'm sure there are plenty on here who manage that. Heck, I only work parttime along side my Masters and manage to achieve status.
 
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