Aviation Discussion

[fowler9]

Devastated today. Was at Lime Street getting a train to Parkway to catch a bus to go and see the Typhoon take off for the Southport Airshow. The train took me to Newton Le Willows instead. Ah well, went back to Lime Street and saw the Typhoon fly down the river and circle the city centre instead.

 

[atillathehunn]

If Flybe get their LUX flight right, it's going to make a big dent in the MAN-CRL flight from FR. That flight is often dominated by those making the connection onto the Flixbus service to Luxembourg.

Was it well filled, Butts?

Hyperbole plays a part in your description of Findel, but on the other hand, given the size of Luxembourg he is also not technically that far off...

Addis Ababa - Entebbe was quite long enough in a Dash-8 for me... Quite happy to avoid them from now on. Manchester - AMS is usually an Embraer, but their Rotterdam service is a turbo prop, which can mean a lively approach on a windy day.

 

[Butts]

If Flybe get their LUX flight right, it's going to make a big dent in the MAN-CRL flight from FR. That flight is often dominated by those making the connection onto the Flixbus service to Luxembourg.

Was it well filled, Butts?

Hyperbole plays a part in your description of Findel, but on the other hand, given the size of Luxembourg he is also not technically that far off...

Addis Ababa - Entebbe was quite long enough in a Dash-8 for me... Quite happy to avoid them from now on. Manchester - AMS is usually an Embraer, but their Rotterdam service is a turbo prop, which can mean a lively approach on a windy day.

With regard to the Man-Lux it was about half full. Bear in mind I was originally scheduled to be on an Evening Flight (the Night before) but they cancelled that weeks before the service even started.

Addis Ababa - Entebbe - wow did that have a "rear gunner"

 

[WestCoast]

If Flybe get their LUX flight right, it's going to make a big dent in the MAN-CRL flight from FR. That flight is often dominated by those making the connection onto the Flixbus service to Luxembourg.

Was it well filled, Butts?

Hyperbole plays a part in your description of Findel, but on the other hand, given the size of Luxembourg he is also not technically that far off...

Addis Ababa - Entebbe was quite long enough in a Dash-8 for me... Quite happy to avoid them from now on. Manchester - AMS is usually an Embraer, but their Rotterdam service is a turbo prop, which can mean a lively approach on a windy day.

Do you mean the Fibco service that links up Charleroi and Hahn to Brussels and Luxembourg etc, didn't realise there's a Flixbus service too?

Longest I've done on the Dash was Munich to Riga with airBaltic, about 2h40m and yeah quite long enough!

 

[Butts]

Do you mean the Fibco service that links up Charleroi and Hahn to Brussels and Luxembourg etc, didn't realise there's a Flixbus service too?

Longest I've done on the Dash was Munich to Riga with airBaltic, about 2h40m and yeah quite long enough!

Flibco goes from right outside the terminal (Man City Blue) connections to all over France Germany and Belgium.

A one day pass for the Luxembourg Bus Services is only 4 Euros - 16 or 29 go into City.

 

[atillathehunn]

Yep I did mean Fibco. Began with an F, involved buses....

But doesn't sound like they're in much danger from the new Flymaybe operation.

A rear gunner would have been a great improvement...

 

[Crawley Ben]

I have now completed my first ever return journey on the Airbus A380 Superjumbo operated by Emirates Airlines, having spent a week away in Dubai last week.

Very impressive aircraft, and so quiet! Never flown on anything like it before. Service on board was excellent, and the food good too as well.

Would have no problems at all flying with the airline again & wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to anyone whose thinking of travelling with said airline.

Cheers

Ben

 

[Spamcan81]

Interesting. We get civilian stuff for LPL circling roughly over my parent's place, though never the military stuff. Can't say I've ever noticed any while being out and about in Liverpool. There was an Antonov in Manchester a few months ago - that's an impressive sight!

While there are no A340s, you do still see Jumbos taking off - and to my mind they are more iconic somehow. Sadly the Jumbos BA send to Nairobi are very ratty, though KLM send some rather tasty ones on the AMS-NBO route.

FRA is a nightmare! Avoid at all costs!

Don't bother with the LAN787 unless you can get a good business class deal between Frankfurt and Madrid. Definitely not worth it as an aircraft.

A350 definitely better looking.

Why do you consider FRA a nightmare? Have never had any problems when sing it.

 

[theageofthetra]

I have now completed my first ever return journey on the Airbus A380 Superjumbo operated by Emirates Airlines, having spent a week away in Dubai last week.

Very impressive aircraft, and so quiet! Never flown on anything like it before. Service on board was excellent, and the food good too as well.

Would have no problems at all flying with the airline again & wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to anyone whose thinking of travelling with said airline.

Cheers

Ben

I like the Malaysian A380's as there is economy in the upper deck and the service up there is great with the wine in proper glasses and promptly refilled. Had a return leg from KL which I reckon had less than 100 pax on whole aircraft.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's been rumoured for ages and ages, but British Airways have confirmed that they are moving to a Buy on Board model for their UK Domestic and EU short haul flights. Instead of a complimentary drink or two on board, they'll now be charging £6 for a G&T.

Quite why anyone would choose to pay BA prices for EU short haul now they're offering Ryanair service is quite beyond me.

http://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/food-and-drink/short-haul-economy-dining

 

[trentside]

And according to the FAQs payment is by card or Avios only - no cash!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Interesting how VTEC have chosen to relaunch their Plane Relief promotion isn't it

 

[me123]

It's been rumoured for ages and ages, but British Airways have confirmed that they are moving to a Buy on Board model for their UK Domestic and EU short haul flights. Instead of a complimentary drink or two on board, they'll now be charging £6 for a G&T.

Quite why anyone would choose to pay BA prices for EU short haul now they're offering Ryanair service is quite beyond me.

http://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/food-and-drink/short-haul-economy-dining

It's a bizarre move that sees BA lose some of their distinction when compared to their low-cost competitors, however you shouldn't underestimate the pull of Heathrow as a destination. Certainly for the domestic flights they have no competition for getting into LHR, and a relatively large proportion of their traffic must be connecting onwards. There probably aren't many people travelling point-point now anyway who haven't already decided that easyJet is better value and moved over. I compared BA domestic to VTEC 1st class and I'd say that the latter won overall.

To call it a Ryanair style service is, however, not accurate. Having travelled BA economy I would argue that even without the complimentary food and drink the service is above that on FR. The food on offer is by M&S which is still a premium product, and the prices are inkeeping with what you'd pay on the ground. If they can maintain the quality of M&S in the sky, then it will be superior to their current offering. My memory of FR in flight catering was truly awful, and of course not complimentary.

But lots of their loyal customers will not be pleased at paying £6 for a G&T, £4.50 for a wine and £4 for a beer. That's a small feature that is unusual in short haul aviation in the 21st century that took BA above its competitors in a way.

Maybe they're missing a trick with an "all inclusive" fare - this is what they do with bags and it seems to work quite well. Offer an all inclusive fare which entitles you to carry a bag, select your seat and perhaps a reasonable selection from the trolley (one item from the food and one from the drinks menu) "free" of charge, and offer the cheaper fare. Of course, this would ultimately just mask a fare increase but it would probably be more acceptable to passengers.

And according to the FAQs payment is by card or Avios only - no cash!

I'll suggest that this is not unreasonable. Most if not all passengers will have a card with them. My experience of using cash on planes is frankly dire - they never have enough change for some reason. BA short haul probably don't have a reason to carry cash at the moment (duty free not really existing for the bulk of their short haul network - if it exists at all in BA), and I can see why they don't want to start now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be honest I prefer a paid but wider selection of food and drink. I remember when KLM converted to just half a cup of coffee and a pretzel - I took great pleasure in explaining how Ryanair's very comprehensive offer was vastly superior to theirs, which was met with an embarrassed nod by the cabin crew.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Reducing something repeatedly and then abolishing it "because customers don't want it" is the oldest trick in the book.

It's a bizarre move that sees BA lose some of their distinction when compared to their low-cost competitors, however you shouldn't underestimate the pull of Heathrow as a destination. Certainly for the domestic flights they have no competition for getting into LHR, and a relatively large proportion of their traffic must be connecting onwards. There probably aren't many people travelling point-point now anyway who haven't already decided that easyJet is better value and moved over. I compared BA domestic to VTEC 1st class and I'd say that the latter won overall.

To call it a Ryanair style service is, however, not accurate. Having travelled BA economy I would argue that even without the complimentary food and drink the service is above that on FR. The food on offer is by M&S which is still a premium product, and the prices are inkeeping with what you'd pay on the ground. If they can maintain the quality of M&S in the sky, then it will be superior to their current offering. My memory of FR in flight catering was truly awful, and of course not complimentary.

Heathrow will still be attractive, as will the fact that BA have a wider timetable than the LCCs who often only fly daily. BA's resilience in disruption will be a selling point.

From Gatwick, though, I now can't see a difference between BA's proposed offer and what the LCCs offer, except BA charge £40 more for it.

It's a long time since I've eaten on a Ryanair flight, but the drinks are pretty good quality, Ryanair's coffee is fresh filter coffee and it's nice.

I think people are looking at the M&S name and expecting quality, quality that IMHO doesn't truly exist on the high street and certainly won't exist when the sandwiches have been sat on an aircraft cart for six hours. If M&S sandwiches on BA are any different to the sandwiches on EasyJet and Ryanair I'll be amazed.

Ryanair's onboard ambience is still probably worse than BA economy, but BA and EasyJet's A319/320 aircraft are pretty much identical these days, even down to leg room.

 

[me123]

From Gatwick, though, I now can't see a difference between BA's proposed offer and what the LCCs offer, except BA charge £40 more for it.

It's amazing how good the fares on BA can be, and it's always worth shopping around. A few BA to Gatwick back in April and the fares were about the same as easyJet on a Saturday morning. However, BA's Gatwick service (particularly on domestic routes) will survive as a feeder flight to their smaller Gatwick hub - the flight I was on had lots of families connecting onto Florida bound flights, and certainly most passengers made a transfer rather than leaving the terminal.

Ryanair's onboard ambience is still probably worse than BA economy, but BA and EasyJet's A319/320 aircraft are pretty much identical these days, even down to leg room.

I'd disagree with this. I found that BAs A320s have better legroom than easyJet's. That said, easyJet are certainly not far off BA in terms of their product.

Cityflyer aside, there's no doubt that point-point traffic is a small proportion of BA domestic passengers.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Talking of BA - what are the "turn up and go" fares like at the sales desk at Terminal 5?

Daughter, 13, wants to try an airliner flight to see what it's like ( she has done two helicopter and one light aircraft rides so she's not totally without flying experience ).

I'm thinking of turning up "on spec" to do a domestic day trip ( probably to Edinburgh and back ) subject to availability - don't want to pre-book because for her first such flight I want to pretty much guarantee we won't be flying in wild weather...

Would the fares be better on a Saturday or midday on a working day in the school holidays?

Any ideas?

 

[jon0844]

SAS stopped doing the free food to Sweden a while back so I am amazed BA didn't follow suit ages ago - at least for certain routes.

 

[Bald Rick]

Talking of BA - what are the "turn up and go" fares like at the sales desk at Terminal 5?

Daughter, 13, wants to try an airliner flight to see what it's like ( she has done two helicopter and one light aircraft rides so she's not totally without flying experience ).

I'm thinking of turning up "on spec" to do a domestic day trip ( probably to Edinburgh and back ) subject to availability - don't want to pre-book because for her first such flight I want to pretty much guarantee we won't be flying in wild weather...

Would the fares be better on a Saturday or midday on a working day in the school holidays?i

Any ideas?

Don't worry about the weather. I flew from Glasgow last week, with high winds and rain at ground level, yet the flight was super smooth.

Secondly, even if you do worry about the weather, the forecast 72 hours out is usually reliable. Book then.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I'm thinking more of her being able to see a view of the ground than of any turbulence... She has specifically asked that the return leg be after dark so she can see the towns by night from above.

I'd still need an idea of what sort of price I should expect for the fare...

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'd still need an idea of what sort of price I should expect for the fare...

Turning up on the day of the flight?

Looking for this morning to Edinburgh, the morning flights are about £150 per person per sector. The rest of the day is sold out. Newcastle is £278 per person per sector, Glasgow is £232, but Leeds is about £100.

If you get something for less than £300 each return you're doing well, tbh.

 

[AlterEgo]

Turning up on the day of the flight?

Looking for this morning to Edinburgh, the morning flights are about £150 per person per sector. The rest of the day is sold out. Newcastle is £278 per person per sector, Glasgow is £232, but Leeds is about £100.

If you get something for less than £300 each return you're doing well, tbh.

Indeed. Don't book on the day. BA domestics are often well loaded. If you book on the day you can kiss goodbye to a window seat too. Expect two middle seats well away from each other.

Book a few months out.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If you book on the day you can kiss goodbye to a window seat too.

That's a point, it'll be extra on BA if you want to choose your own seat.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Ouch.

So I'll have to take a chance on the weather, then?

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I get the impression BA price their domestics high because they want to keep them as feeder flights for their T5 International operations. If you book USA via LHR from Leeds, the domestic flight barely adds anything to fee.

They don't want to lose big money international bookings for people just going Leeds to London.

Perhaps try a Flybe service, will doubtless get a better deal there.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I get the impression BA price their domestics high

If you book in advance they don't, I switched from the train to the plane because the plane was cheaper than VTEC first class. I regularly see Newcastle-London at about the £60 each way mark.

Book at the last minute, though, and you get charged last minute prices.

 

[flymo]

Cathay Pacific will fly its last commercial passenger Boeing 747 service tomorrow, the last flight is from Tokyo Hanenda to Hong Kong as CX543. Once one of operators of the largest number of 747's, (there are a lot still fair but dwindling number out there) the end of an era is on October 1 at about 14:10 HK time (06:10 UTC). I have flown with CX many times and on their jumbo's from HKG-LHR and back more times than I care to remember but time moves on. Happy memories of the hill in Lok Fu at the base of the checkerboard watching them come in to Kai-tak. Sure to be a wonderful farewell to the 'Lady of the Skies'. B-HUJ doing the honours.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I'll see what's available on the spot; if it's too high a price I can always book ahead there and then at the desk and take a chance on the weather. Spoken to my daughter this evening and she's happy with that strategy, so we'll turn up and see what's available but won't necessarily expect to fly the same day - although we will be prepared for that just in case.

I'm not ruling out a short haul European flight either if there's a better price and availability.

 

[dcsprior]

I've twice booked a last minute flight from London to Edinburgh, once when I'd missed the 5pm train, and once when I realised I had paper tickets for the train 400 miles away rather than my normal print at home tickets. I took the cheapest flight from any London airport to Edinburgh each time - once on FlyBe from City and the other time on EasyJet from Stanstead, both were £80-90 one way.

If you're going solely for the pleasure of flying, I'd recommend BA CityFlyer from City - the most comfortable seating on any domestic flight (as good as BA's European business class IMO) and prices that can be very reasonable if booked a few days before provided you're travelling at a time of day/week/year when there's not much demand for business travel.

Sent from my LG-H340n using Tapatalk

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd disagree with this. I found that BAs A320s have better legroom than easyJet's. That said, easyJet are certainly not far off BA in terms of their product.

On the older cabins BA specified the wider seats, whereas easyJet specified the wider aisle, so there is a noticeable difference. I *think* on the new cabins they may well be both the same (easyJet a little wider, BA a little narrower).