Aviation Discussion

[Crawley Ben]

Fudge that for a game of soldiers! Having done my first long-haul flight almost 4 months ago, I would rather change 2 or 3 times for a journey of that length. JFK to LGW in a Norwegian 787-9's Economy seats was enough to put me off for life! We had booked extra legroom seats as well, which made it even worse to be chucked into seats with legroom that even Ryanair would shake their heads at!

Unfortunately that's what you get when flying long haul on a low coast carrier. Expect something similar with the likes of Wow Air and WestJet who also fly low cost long haul from Gatwick. Possibly throw Air Transat in to the mix too as well even though they are classed as a lesuire airline and not strictly low cost. Have heard similar stories from pax who travel in with said airlines.

That's why I would rather pay extra and fly with the likes of BA, Air Canada etc.

Ben

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Air Transat have a nice older fleet, what are their A310s like onboard?


Air Transat C-GPAT arrives into Manchester by Timothy Young, on Flickr

 

[Techniquest]

Rather glad I didn't book with Wow Air already then!

 

[me123]

Fudge that for a game of soldiers! Having done my first long-haul flight almost 4 months ago, I would rather change 2 or 3 times for a journey of that length. JFK to LGW in a Norwegian 787-9's Economy seats was enough to put me off for life! We had booked extra legroom seats as well, which made it even worse to be chucked into seats with legroom that even Ryanair would shake their heads at!

I have to say, when I've flown to America (on EI and VS), I've very much liked the time to myself. It's rare today that you can truly sit back and relax, with your phone beside you continuing to buzz every few minutes. 8 hours in the sky separated from the rest of civilisation is, by contrast, quite a nice escape, even if it is in economy class.

Besides, it's worth it to explore the world.

 

[Crawley Ben]

Air Transat have a nice older fleet, what are their A310s like onboard?


Air Transat C-GPAT arrives into Manchester by Timothy Young, on Flickr

Not sure what the inflight product is like on the A310's but can't imagine it's anything to get excited about in all honesty. Pax who I've spoken to previously that have flown Air Transat give me the impression they wouldn't rush to fly with them again.

Ben

 

[WestCoast]

Not sure what the inflight product is like on the A310's but can't imagine it's anything to get excited about in all honesty. Pax who I've spoken to previously that have flown Air Transat give me the impression they wouldn't rush to fly with them again.

Ben

I know that the A310s have been refurbished to include seat back screens and mood lighting.

I flew to Halifax on an Air Transat Lockheed L-1011 about 15 years ago, seemed like a standard charter airline experience back then.
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Unfortunately that's what you get when flying long haul on a low coast carrier. Expect something similar with the likes of Wow Air and WestJet who also fly low cost long haul from Gatwick. Possibly throw Air Transat in to the mix too as well even though they are classed as a lesuire airline and not strictly low cost. Have heard similar stories from pax who travel in with said airlines.

That's why I would rather pay extra and fly with the likes of BA, Air Canada etc.

Ben

The BA 787s are very cramped in World Traveller (Economy), they are much complained about.

 

[NathanPrior]

Not too sure about Air Canada's policy on no headphones are allowed in ears during take off and landing. It's almost as if they like peoples ears popping. The only airline that have made me do that, I weren't happy about it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not sure how headphones would stop ears popping?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[NathanPrior]

Not sure how headphones would stop ears popping?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It worked for me when flying with Virgin Atlantic and Delta. Could work in the same way sucking a boiled sweet works, but it does actually work.

 

[Techniquest]

I have to say, when I've flown to America (on EI and VS), I've very much liked the time to myself. It's rare today that you can truly sit back and relax, with your phone beside you continuing to buzz every few minutes. 8 hours in the sky separated from the rest of civilisation is, by contrast, quite a nice escape, even if it is in economy class.

Besides, it's worth it to explore the world.

True, true there on those points. I'd love to try Virgin out, I really would!

 

[Crawley Ben]

I know that the A310s have been refurbished to include seat back screens and mood lighting.

I flew to Halifax on an Air Transat Lockheed L-1011 about 15 years ago, seemed like a standard charter airline experience back then.
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The BA 787s are very cramped in World Traveller (Economy), they are much complained about.

Not done the 787 at all tbh Westcoast. I have flown on BA A320, 747, and Air Canada 767,777 previously. 767 I can't say I liked that much for comfort or anything else for that matter. The others were all fine.

Mind my asking what your view is in general with the 787?

Cheers

Ben

 

[WestCoast]

Not done the 787 at all tbh Westcoast. I have flown on BA A320, 747, and Air Canada 767,777 previously. 767 I can't say I liked that much for comfort or anything else for that matter. The others were all fine.

Mind my asking what your view is in general with the 787?

Cheers

Ben

The 787 is a nice plane to fly on (quiet, airy, fresher cabin air) but not especially spacious in Norwegain or BA configuration, at least in economy. I can't speak for other airlines' 787s.

 

[atillathehunn]

The 787 is a nice plane to fly on (quiet, airy, fresher cabin air) but not especially spacious in Norwegain or BA configuration, at least in economy. I can't speak for other airlines' 787s.

Qatar's 787-8 was awful. So much of it could be great. The humid air, the area around the boarding door is very spacious, and the counter with the flowers is a nice touch. You would be forgiven for thinking this would set the tone of the rest of the plane. Down the back, though, the legroom is destroyed by the IFE box, with a nice sharp metal edge to jab into your leg every now and then. The IFE on Qatar was good, though, and the food <Turkish but >Cathay, BA, Emirates etc.

Kenya Airways 787 suffered from pretty much the same problems, though the flight I was on was deserted unlike the Qatar flight, so it felt less cramped. It's a big step up from their mangy 777 product though.

Have yet to try ET's 787, though their 777 product is not bad at all, though their 767 is to be avoided at all costs.

 

[fowler9]

Not too sure about Air Canada's policy on no headphones are allowed in ears during take off and landing. It's almost as if they like peoples ears popping. The only airline that have made me do that, I weren't happy about it.

It is so you can hear the cabin crew and the flight crew in the event of an emergency, that is when most crashes happen. Not sure headphones would prevent your ears popping anyway. I'm not saying this to knock you but I have got pretty good at equalizing the pressure anyway. It helps to use the muscles around your jaw I find. My sister is cabin crew, I tend to find everything they tell you is for a good reason.
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Not much I have heard about the 787 of late has made me eager to travel on it to be honest. Sounds cramped depending o the configuration the airline you choose is using. LAN A340 for 13 hours from Auckland to Santiago in Economy was amazing. Sadly they use 787's on the same route and the one to Madrid now.

 

[atillathehunn]

It is so you can hear the cabin crew and the flight crew in the event of an emergency, that is when most crashes happen. Not sure headphones would prevent your ears popping anyway. I'm not saying this to knock you but I have got pretty good at equalizing the pressure anyway. It helps to use the muscles around your jaw I find. My sister is cabin crew, I tend to find everything they tell you is for a good reason.
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Not much I have heard about the 787 of late has made me eager to travel on it to be honest. Sounds cramped depending o the configuration the airline you choose is using. LAN A340 for 13 hours from Auckland to Santiago in Economy was amazing. Sadly they use 787's on the same route and the one to Madrid now.

I understand the 787-9 is better configured, but I haven't experienced one yet. It could be a great plane, but it's ruined by the airline configuration.

You're right, Fowler9, that the A340 is a fine aircraft. However, they're thirsty and so fell out of favour. With recent falls in fuel prices they have seen a reprieve, though. Not had one come up in my itinerary for a while though, so they're hiding elsewhere.

 

[fowler9]

I understand the 787-9 is better configured, but I haven't experienced one yet. It could be a great plane, but it's ruined by the airline configuration.

You're right, Fowler9, that the A340 is a fine aircraft. However, they're thirsty and so fell out of favour. With recent falls in fuel prices they have seen a reprieve, though. Not had one come up in my itinerary for a while though, so they're hiding elsewhere.

Yeah, Virgin used to use an A340-600 from Manchester to Atlanta. Managed to go and see one last year before they changed to A330-300. Possibly my favourite aircraft of all time, although of course the LAN one I traveled on was a 300. Was made up when the A340 came up on my itinerary, flying from Auckland to Santiago there was no chance it would be something else.

 

[atillathehunn]

Yeah, Virgin used to use an A340-600 from Manchester to Atlanta. Managed to go and see one last year before they changed to A330-300. Possibly my favourite aircraft of all time, although of course the LAN one I traveled on was a 300.

There's still plenty round here. SAA has a reasonable fleet of them, for example, and EK used to send them to quite a few destinations in East and Central Africa, but they're gradually disappearing. The SAA fleet doesn't seem to be going anywhere, though.

Don't think Manchester has seen one for a while, though. Still plenty out of LHR. The Manila flight is an A340, and today the Boston and New York flight from Virgin are A340, and the SAA flight as well. Get them while you can, if the fuel prices shoot up again I don't see them hanging around long.
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Fair point, I will not be doing an overnigjht flight again that's for sure. Slumming it in a seat and trying to kip is not my idea of fun! Not that I plan to fly long-distance any time soon of course

There are different coping mechanisms. And of course not all of us get the choice!

And Techniquest, I wouldn't rule it out on the basis of one bad flight on a LCC! Flying long haul doesn't need to be quite so awful.

 

[fowler9]

There's still plenty round here. SAA has a reasonable fleet of them, for example, and EK used to send them to quite a few destinations in East and Central Africa, but they're gradually disappearing. The SAA fleet doesn't seem to be going anywhere, though.

Don't think Manchester has seen one for a while, though. Still plenty out of LHR. The Manila flight is an A340, and today the Boston and New York flight from Virgin are A340, and the SAA flight as well. Get them while you can, if the fuel prices shoot up again I don't see them hanging around long.
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There are different coping mechanisms. And of course not all of us get the choice!

And Techniquest, I wouldn't rule it out on the basis of one bad flight on a LCC! Flying long haul doesn't need to be quite so awful.

Yeah, I've been lucky whenever I have flown proper long haul, 12/13 hours, when I've arrived I have been lucky enough not to have needed a game face on. I just wached films and ate and drank all the free stuff that was thrown at me. One mate however lived in New Zealand for a while and got flow to Toronto and New York for meetings and conferences. Apparently he arrived 12 Monkeys style. Asking what year it was and who was the president.

 

[atillathehunn]

Yeah, I've been lucky whenever I have flown proper long haul, 12/13 hours, when I've arrived I have been lucky enough not to have needed a game face on. I just wached films and ate and drank all the free stuff that was thrown at me. One mate however lived in New Zealand for a while and got flow to Toronto and New York for meetings and conferences. Apparently he arrived 12 Monkeys style. Asking what year it was and who was the president.

I find if you were going to have a good night anyway, you'll be fine on the plane. But coming back from Hong Kong on one occasion in a rammed CX 777 to MAN, I had a touch of heat stroke and a touch of the Eartha Kitts and I thought that flight would never end.

I can empathise with you friend, that must be a punishing schedule! I was on the multi stop TK flight to EBB via IST, which arrives in the dead of night, and I must confess to having made a very stupid mistake. I had fallen very deeply asleep (why must TK keep their planes so hot!?), and on landing vaguely assumed we were in EBB. Trying to enter the wrong country in the middle of the night goes down as one of my dumbest mistakes to date.

 

[rf_ioliver]

I seem to keep ending up on A340s long haul...need to speak to my corporate travel agent about that

Once rerouted across the US to get a LH A380 Houston-Frankfurt

SAS's A330-300 with the refurbished cabins are very good in economy and excellent in business - I probably ate and drank more on the plane than I did in 3 days in the US!

Lufthansa moved their A340-600s back to Munich - previously it was -300s. The latter sightly underpowered and the former certainly made up for that!

The A340-200/300 series were usually described as 4 hair dryers and an APU

I find the 777 to be somewhat noisy. Haven't experienced the A350 yet, though Finnair operate them to the far-east, that particular airline is off my favourites list sadly.


t.

Ian

 

[atillathehunn]

I seem to keep ending up on A340s long haul...need to speak to my corporate travel agent about that

Once rerouted across the US to get a LH A380 Houston-Frankfurt

SAS's A330-300 with the refurbished cabins are very good in economy and excellent in business - I probably ate and drank more on the plane than I did in 3 days in the US!

Lufthansa moved their A340-600s back to Munich - previously it was -300s. The latter sightly underpowered and the former certainly made up for that!

The A340-200/300 series were usually described as 4 hair dryers and an APU

I find the 777 to be somewhat noisy. Haven't experienced the A350 yet, though Finnair operate them to the far-east, that particular airline is off my favourites list sadly.


t.

Ian

That's dedication to get onto the LH A380! Though if you were in F I can see the point, I'm informed that it's one of the best cabins around.

It seems there is a big difference between SAS long haul and short haul. I was thoroughly underwhelmed by my 4 flights with SAS short haul. Slightly terrible cup of tea on a 2 hour flight, and the paid offering didn't look to match the price.

What has Finnair done to offend?

4 hair dryers and an APU - like it.

 

[Techniquest]

I too would like to know what is wrong with Finnair!

I'm not put off LCCs, I still love Ryanair after all. Quite, I can't wait to get trying BA out in just over 4 months time on a LGW-VIE and return trip. I'd like to fly again before then of course!

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Sadly the trend is for airlines to fit the tightest configuration they can get away with in Economy. The 787 is the first new model (single-deck) wide-body for a while so most will feel a little more cramped than their predecessors. The 350 and new versions of the 777 will be the same. The question is then whether it is cost effective for airlines to refit older models to a higher density. So far it would appear the 330/340 have been immune to this, at least in the number of seats abreast ie 2-4-2 seems difficult to change. Remember that the 767, DC10/MD11 and L1011 all had different crosswise configurations possible.

Having said all that the legroom situation is much more variable regardless of model. By all accounts of all the 21st century introductions the 380 seems to provide the most consistently comfortable layouts in Economy. But wait for a true high density layout to appear (Air France?)

 

[atillathehunn]

I too would like to know what is wrong with Finnair!

I'm not put off LCCs, I still love Ryanair after all. Quite, I can't wait to get trying BA out in just over 4 months time on a LGW-VIE and return trip. I'd like to fly again before then of course!

I think loving Ryanair is grounds for being sectioned... They are a useful airline with whom I've logged more sectors than I care to recall, but something about the garish yellow on the dawn flights to Brussels reminds me on the interior of a third world hospital. Smell usually similar, mixed with aviation fuel.

BA were underwhelming last time I flew with them. The Sleazy seats were more comfortable, and the drinks trolley had run out of gin before it got to me, which is an unpardonable sin.


As for the configuration, yes sadly it's the way things are moving, though I do wonder if there will be enough of a backlash from
Customers boycotting the product for them to change it. I get a certain degree of flexibility when choosing flights, and will be avoiding the 787-8 where possible.

 

[rf_ioliver]

That's dedication to get onto the LH A380! Though if you were in F I can see the point, I'm informed that it's one of the best cabins around.

It seems there is a big difference between SAS long haul and short haul. I was thoroughly underwhelmed by my 4 flights with SAS short haul. Slightly terrible cup of tea on a 2 hour flight, and the paid offering didn't look to match the price.

What has Finnair done to offend?

4 hair dryers and an APU - like it.

Dedication involved a 4 hour flight on United to make the connection ... I should have got a medal Alas the 380 was in economy, but still, a 380!

As for Finnair...too expensive, dreadful customer service, dreadful economy product and losing 80,000 points in the name of improving customer service.

SAS short haul is not good, but no worse than anyone else - personally I go for Lufthansa or Norwegian. SAS long haul has improved considerably - especially in economy. Worth flying just for the IFE system!

t.

Ian

 

[atillathehunn]

Dedication involved a 4 hour flight on United to make the connection ... I should have got a medal Alas the 380 was in economy, but still, a 380!

As for Finnair...too expensive, dreadful customer service, dreadful economy product and losing 80,000 points in the name of improving customer service.

SAS short haul is not good, but no worse than anyone else - personally I go for Lufthansa or Norwegian. SAS long haul has improved considerably - especially in economy. Worth flying just for the IFE system!

t.

Ian

I'm sure that with this piece of string and a milk bottle top we'll craft you some fine hardware. The A380 is certainly impressive, though that's real dedication to get it, not sure I would be inspired enough! Was it worth it?

Was the economy product the old air France A340? That was a dreadful aircraft but I think they have all
Gone the way of the dodo.
Can't comment on the rest!

I'll be sure to give SAS a look in but they don't seem to go where I want to go!

 

[WestCoast]

Given the choice between BA and Norwegian on a 3 hour flight within Europe I'd probably prefer Norwegian for the free wifi

 

[Butts]

Given the choice between BA and Norwegian on a 3 hour flight within Europe I'd probably prefer Norwegian for the free wifi

Do you get free drinks on Norwegian ?

 

[WestCoast]

Do you get free drinks on Norwegian ?

Nope, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.....

It's all hypothetical anyway. I wish there was the choice of BA direct to holiday destinations in Europe, but unless you're flying from one of the London airports or willing to connect, BA is out of the question sadly.

 

[Butts]

Nope, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.....

It's all hypothetical anyway. I wish there was the choice of BA direct to holiday destinations in Europe, but unless you're flying from one of the London airports or willing to connect, BA is out of the question sadly.

I remember when BA had a hub at BHX which was a terminal to the left if you were standing outside the front of the Airport. Mind you it was mainly Domestic Flights even then. BA became BA Connect and then Flybe which gave up the exclusive hub and the Airport morphed from "two" terminals to one.

Still at least it's got a smoking area post-security