Aviation Discussion

[dcsprior]

Business press speculation that the smart money is now on using an existing Heathrow runway for simultaneous take-offs and landings, rather than a new runway either there or at Gatwick.

I'm hoping they build both new runways, but only use a fraction of the capacity at each. This would help passengers by increasing competition between the two airports, and provide additional resilience in case of an unplanned closure of one.

 

[Busaholic]

I'm hoping they build both new runways, but only use a fraction of the capacity at each. This would help passengers by increasing competition between the two airports, and provide additional resilience in case of an unplanned closure of one.

If I were in the aviation business, I don't think I'd be trying to sell that one to the politicians: - on the other hand ,maybe if Nicholas Ridley was still Transport Secretary...

 

[randyrippley]

best new runway for London? Filton at Bristol
Right next to the GW main line and the M4/M5 , and with track improvements and an upgrade to TGV standards easily accesible fron London. Already has three runways (admittedly intersecting each other, not linear) and its currently unused, awaiting development.
And Rolls Royce would be right on the doorstep, making engine deliveries dead easy

 

[fowler9]

best new runway for London? Filton at Bristol
Right next to the GW main line and the M4/M5 , and with track improvements and an upgrade to TGV standards easily accesible fron London. Already has three runways (admittedly intersecting each other, not linear) and its currently unused, awaiting development.
And Rolls Royce would be right on the doorstep, making engine deliveries dead easy

Or perhaps somewhere in France near the Eurostar route?

 

[Bald Rick]

Or perhaps somewhere in France near the Eurostar route?

Or perhaps somewhere in the West Midlands, next to an existing station and a future HS2 station with trains that will be quicker to London than the Stansted Express?

 

[Busaholic]

Or perhaps somewhere in the West Midlands, next to an existing station and a future HS2 station with trains that will be quicker to London than the Stansted Express?

If HS2 gets built (the southern part, at least) that sounds eminently sensible to me, which of course means it will never happen.

 

[atillathehunn]

best new runway for London? Filton at Bristol
Right next to the GW main line and the M4/M5 , and with track improvements and an upgrade to TGV standards easily accesible fron London. Already has three runways (admittedly intersecting each other, not linear) and its currently unused, awaiting development.
And Rolls Royce would be right on the doorstep, making engine deliveries dead easy

Apart from the 1000 houses constructed on the runway site

 

[randyrippley]

Apart from the 1000 houses constructed on the runway site

damn, that ruined that idea!
Didn't know they'd started building. Real stupid decision, far better airfield than Lulsgate

 

[Techniquest]

Hey all,

I was going to post here, following a piece on BBC Midlands Today recently, about Emirates having A380s flying out of Birmingham now. Until I find a link, that's all I know as I only caught the end of it. The desire to travel on one is more than real...

Anyway, I'm filling in my AFQR 2016 book finally, several days after receiving it. I've been using the 2012 edition for a long time, and I'm now wondering about two entries I've got so far:

Emirates' A6-EMB (it's handwritten in so not sure if I've got it right) doesn't appear to exist bar one photo in recent times on Google. Might I have mis-read it at the time?

Cathay Pacific's B-HKF, a 747-412 according to the 2012 book. It doesn't appear in the 2016 book though, would it be reasonable to assume it's retired?

No doubt I'll be back to ask more soon!

 

[Minilad]

The Emirates could be A6-EBM which is a 777-300. A6-EMB relates to a 727 that was reregistered in 1995
B-HKF was scrapped in 2013

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

The Emirates could be A6-EBM which is a 777-300. A6-EMB relates to a 727 that was reregistered in 1995
B-HKF was scrapped in 2013

Did HFK go to Bruntingthorpe, Moses Lake or Victorville?

 

[Techniquest]

The Emirates could be A6-EBM which is a 777-300. A6-EMB relates to a 727 that was reregistered in 1995
B-HKF was scrapped in 2013

Cheers! Sounds plausible for the 777, but as I'm not convinced what I saw I'll leave it be. Annoying as it's unusual for me to ID anything Emirates at BHX!

BBC News link to the Birmingham A380 thing:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-35871886

Quote below is the text from it:

Airbus A380 airliner to fly from Birmingham Airport
22 March 2016
From the section Birmingham & Black Country

Media captionA380 ready for Birmingham
The world's biggest passenger airliner has flown into Birmingham Airport ahead of a new daily flights schedule from the West Midlands.
The Airbus A380 will operate on a route run by Middle Eastern airline Emirates between Birmingham and Dubai from Easter Sunday.
The aircraft can fly 15,200km (9,995 miles) and carry 600 passengers.
Bosses hope its arrival can help the airport to keep expanding and serve more passengers.
Bob Graham, airport operations director, said £1m had been spent on the infrastructure needed to host the plane.
He said the new service was "a fantastic opportunity" to bring in more passengers to the airport - which handled 10 million passengers in 2015 - as well as more jobs for the region.
"It's the most prestigious aircraft that's currently around," he said.
Bob Graham
Image caption
Bob Graham, from Birmingham Airport, said £1m had been spent on the infrastructure needed to host the plane
Craig Burrows, from Emirates, said: "The challenge is trying to turn the aircraft around safely and securely.
"We need extra ground service equipment which we have to ensure gets on the aircraft safely and there's more fuel up-lift and a lot more baggage to be carried on the aircraft due to the bigger number of passengers

 

[Minilad]

Did HFK go to Bruntingthorpe, Moses Lake or Victorville?

Moses Lake
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Cheers! Sounds plausible for the 777, but as I'm not convinced what I saw I'll leave it be. Annoying as it's unusual for me to ID anything Emirates at BHX!

What date did you see it. If it was at BHX I have access to a daily log report for BHX

 

[Techniquest]

Unfortunately, my aviation spotting logs are non-existant before this year, unless it involved a plane as part of a bash. This was quite some time ago now too, it was ID'd from a plane I remember that much!

I should clarify my logs means general notes, from this year on I'm attempting to keep track of my spotting better!

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Moses Lake

Interesting... Other CP that were retired at the same time went to Brunty or Victorville

 

[westcoaster]

Unfortunately, my aviation spotting logs are non-existant before this year, unless it involved a plane as part of a bash. This was quite some time ago now too, it was ID'd from a plane I remember that much!

I should clarify my logs means general notes, from this year on I'm attempting to keep track of my spotting better!

a good site for trying to work out what you saw matches in real life is airfleets.net, tracks a planes owner/operator from assembly line to scrap line.

i know my pet aircraft G-EZJC 737-700 (used to work on it for easyjet, is now entering service for southwest airlines in the USA after spending some time down in Argentina.) http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b737ng-30237.htm

 

[Techniquest]

Certainly worth checking that out then, although admittedly for me planes are like trains, a re-number (or re-registration, whichever sounds right) means it's a new sight for me.

So if G-FBEK (a Flybe E175 I believe) was to transfer to, say, Ryanair (I know, it would never happen!) then they would almost certainly re-register it. Let's say EI-FBE. It would count as a new sight for me.

Scored G-FBEK for sight this afternoon, with the help of FlightRadar24's app and the clouds clearing at just the right time! I see there's a load of Dash 8s on order for Flybe too, just when I thought I nearly had the fleet cleared for sight!

 

[Minilad]

Certainly worth checking that out then, although admittedly for me planes are like trains, a re-number (or re-registration, whichever sounds right) means it's a new sight for me.

So if G-FBEK (a Flybe E175 I believe) was to transfer to, say, Ryanair (I know, it would never happen!) then they would almost certainly re-register it. Let's say EI-FBE. It would count as a new sight for me.

Amongst plane spotters this is known as a paintscrape.
If you see a plane for the first time it's a frame. See the same frame with a different reg then it's a scrape.
Most of the aircraft spotting databases allow for frames and scrapes to be entered onto the database

 

[Techniquest]

So how would one log a frame and a scrape? I'm rather confused I must admit, although I've learnt new jargon!

 

[Minilad]

So how would one log a frame and a scrape? I'm rather confused I must admit, although I've learnt new jargon!

In the database I used if you logged an aircraft and you had previously seen it as another identity it would automatically record it as a scrape rather than a frame. Obviously if using books this is a little more difficult if you don't know previous identities. This is why using databases make recording aircraft easier.
Databases log aircraft against the construction numbers of aircraft rather than a registration/serial. This means you don't have to keep records of changes as the database updates do that for you. They aren't cheap but if you are serious about it they make life a hell of a lot easier

 

[Techniquest]

I bet, it sounds like you take the hobby far more intensely than I currently do.

I've just spent quite a bit of time on Airfleets.net and wow! That's an incredibly useful site, I could have spent so much more time on it. I might have to register on there and log my flights, it would be a good backup for my Flightdiary but also it would potentially be useful to the community there.

Quite, their fleet book is an interesting idea although not very cheap whatsoever. The new deliveries page is very useful too, and I note that Ryanair have stored one of their craft this month. Looks like my book is about to be covered in some updates!

Thanks westcoaster for the tip

 

[fowler9]

Just out of interest would you count something Flightradar24 told you had flown over?

 

[Techniquest]

It's the equivilent of a TOPS request, so yeah. How do you think I got G-FBEK today?

 

[fowler9]

It's the equivilent of a TOPS request, so yeah. How do you think I got G-FBEK today?

A couple of months ago you weren't sure you had seen 59003 even though you definitely had. Flightradar sometimes gets the flight wrong. Can you count the aircraft if you haven't seen the registration. Interesting question.

 

[Minilad]

Tut Tut Tut!!

It's not called FudgeRader for nothing

 

[Techniquest]

My rule, tough cheese! Are we really this fussy when it comes to trains? No we're not! If you couldn't quite ID something and you asked on the TOPS Request Thread for some gen, then someone says "It's showing Xyz". As far as I'm aware most people at least would be happy to accept that as fact, even if TOPS/Genius/TRUST/gen groups/word of mouth is far from infallible!

It does help G-FBEK was the only plane in the sky at the time for many miles around, there could be no mixing up one plane with another! Now if I was sitting here, going through Flightradar24's app and just ticking off what it said was above, without even seeing a plane in the sky (due to cloud cover or just not looking!) then I could understand the raised eyebrows.

As I say, if someone was to give you the numbers of whatever was in a rail yard, you'd take that without going and seeing with your own eyes each and every number, why not this way? Don't get me wrong, I won't be filling my AFQR entirely this way (that's not fun!), but it sure helps!

 

[fowler9]

My rule, tough cheese! Are we really this fussy when it comes to trains? No we're not! If you couldn't quite ID something and you asked on the TOPS Request Thread for some gen, then someone says "It's showing Xyz". As far as I'm aware most people at least would be happy to accept that as fact, even if TOPS/Genius/TRUST/gen groups/word of mouth is far from infallible!

It does help G-FBEK was the only plane in the sky at the time for many miles around, there could be no mixing up one plane with another! Now if I was sitting here, going through Flightradar24's app and just ticking off what it said was above, without even seeing a plane in the sky (due to cloud cover or just not looking!) then I could understand the raised eyebrows.

As I say, if someone was to give you the numbers of whatever was in a rail yard, you'd take that without going and seeing with your own eyes each and every number, why not this way? Don't get me wrong, I won't be filling my AFQR entirely this way (that's not fun!), but it sure helps!

Fair play mate.

 

[Minilad]

My rule, tough cheese! Are we really this fussy when it comes to trains? No we're not! If you couldn't quite ID something and you asked on the TOPS Request Thread for some gen, then someone says "It's showing Xyz". As far as I'm aware most people at least would be happy to accept that as fact, even if TOPS/Genius/TRUST/gen groups/word of mouth is far from infallible!

It does help G-FBEK was the only plane in the sky at the time for many miles around, there could be no mixing up one plane with another! Now if I was sitting here, going through Flightradar24's app and just ticking off what it said was above, without even seeing a plane in the sky (due to cloud cover or just not looking!) then I could understand the raised eyebrows.

As I say, if someone was to give you the numbers of whatever was in a rail yard, you'd take that without going and seeing with your own eyes each and every number, why not this way? Don't get me wrong, I won't be filling my AFQR entirely this way (that's not fun!), but it sure helps!

I can't really comment about trains as I have never been a train spotter. I have asked for gen and look stuff up on TOPS/gemini but only to see what is around and not to confirm something I hadn't seen myself. Gemini especially is notoriously bad and I would never trust what it said without using Mk 1 eyeball myself.
With regards to aircraft I have never taken a frame that I couldn't read off myself unless I know the person who is giving me the gen and that they know what they are doing. Thats just the way I am. Like you say, my rules!
There are plenty of "dot spotters" around and it's up to them of course. I must admit I could have had plenty of extra stuff as I live under a main flight path. But I prefer to be able to clarify a frame myself for me to count it.

 

[Techniquest]

Fair game Each to their own as they say, so long as it works for you then all is gravy. Lush, thick, homemade gravy...

 

[NathanPrior]

Just managed to get Dublin to Phoenix via Chicago return for £528, happy with that. Now for the London to Dublin part, pain in the backside with all those changes though.