Aviation Discussion

[pompeyfan]

Cheers for the reply, I checked about 3 hours later and it was there again, I guess I just had a dodgey connection. It's crazy how Spain has ghost airports, while england (especially the South East) is crying out for more capacity. I suppose there is more space, so fewer nimbys to be affected in a single project.

I always though bournemouth was/is underused, but I'm sure there is a valid reason.

 

[WestCoast]

Cheers for the reply, I checked about 3 hours later and it was there again, I guess I just had a dodgey connection. It's crazy how Spain has ghost airports, while england (especially the South East) is crying out for more capacity. I suppose there is more space, so fewer nimbys to be affected in a single project.

I always though bournemouth was/is underused, but I'm sure there is a valid reason.

I can imagine Murica, like many airports on the Spanish costas, gets a lot busier in the summer season when the seasonal routes operate though.....

The UK does actually have a decent amount of spare capacity with airports, but just not where it's really needed (Heathrow). The high profile intercontinental carriers would not and will not move out to Stansted or many have found ways to relocate from Gatwick. It's a vicious circle in that Heathrow is where the hub and high paying passengers are and therefore certain carriers have to be there adding to the capacity issue. Because these carriers fly to Heathrow, that's where people fly and so on.

 

[CC 72100]

I can imagine Murica, like many airports on the Spanish costas, gets a lot busier in the summer season when the seasonal routes operate though.....

It does, however the building of a new airport (Corvera) without a strategic transition plan to wind down activities at San Javier (which had a stop gap facility build at a cost of several million despite it's impending closure to passenger traffic) is symptomatic of the airport mania that swept Spain throughout the 2000s. Having an airport was the 'in thing' and many provinces put together and carried out plans for their own, often based on shaky over-ambitious and unrealistic business cases against a backdrop of corruption amongst construction companies.

Even some of the airports that are open see very few passengers - some of which were built just 50km from other international airports that while these pre-existing airports were reasonably successful, were not exactly over-stretched and capacity-exhausted.

Cordoba airport for example was extended so that it could take up to A32x aircraft and equivalents - once again it was warned that the business case for it was far from watertight, and those doubters have been proved right: the airport has seen a severe drop in passenger numbers and the new extended runway has only been used to park small private planes.

 

[NathanPrior]

So Delta have changed the time of my flight again, back to the original 19:24. What are they even doing?

 

[fowler9]

It does, however the building of a new airport (Corvera) without a strategic transition plan to wind down activities at San Javier (which had a stop gap facility build at a cost of several million despite it's impending closure to passenger traffic) is symptomatic of the airport mania that swept Spain throughout the 2000s. Having an airport was the 'in thing' and many provinces put together and carried out plans for their own, often based on shaky over-ambitious and unrealistic business cases against a backdrop of corruption amongst construction companies.

Even some of the airports that are open see very few passengers - some of which were built just 50km from other international airports that while these pre-existing airports were reasonably successful, were not exactly over-stretched and capacity-exhausted.

Cordoba airport for example was extended so that it could take up to A32x aircraft and equivalents - once again it was warned that the business case for it was far from watertight, and those doubters have been proved right: the airport has seen a severe drop in passenger numbers and the new extended runway has only been used to park small private planes.

Wasn't Ciudad Real airport amongst the more nutty ones built. I believe it is for sale for the cost of a semi in Surrey now after costing rather a lot of money and not getting used.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

So Delta have changed the time of my flight again, back to the original 19:24. What are they even doing?

I wonder if the original change might have simply been a typo and they've just corrected it back?

 

[CC 72100]

Wasn't Ciudad Real airport amongst the more nutty ones built. I believe it is for sale for the cost of a semi in Surrey now after costing rather a lot of money and not getting used.

Yep - Cuidad Real was built for 1.1 billion euros and is currently for sale for 80 million euros, and has been unused for almost 3 years.

The other prolific example is Castellón - built for 150 million euros (bargain) and 'opened' in 2011 despite there existing no agreements with operators or having received official certification. Of note was a 300,000 euro statue that was built after construction while the airport was still awaiting customers!

It has now opened - although it still has no regular flights and was used by Villarreal CF to take them to an away game in Northern Spain. The 1 and only commercial take-off to date.

 

[flymo]

Well I flew back from Perth (Australia) to Hong Kong via Singapore today with the second leg being on SQ856. At the gate I saw the bird was A388 9V-SKB which to my amazement is now over 8 and a half years old. Nothing wrong with the plane itself or the indeed the age but it just amazed me that the A380 has now been flying for that long. To me it still seems like a brand new aircraft type and long may it continue in service.

This was the second A380 ever delivered to a customer and to date is the earliest example of any aircraft type I have ever travelled on. Kind of made my day really.

In fact of the 4 aircraft on the trip, 1 x B773, 2 x A333 and 1 x A388, I never thought the A388 would be the oldest...

 

[CC 72100]

Castellón has flights!

Ryanair has announced that they will fly out of Castellón to Stansted and Bristol, all-year round, meaning that they will be the first airline to use the airport, as opposed to the one-off charter flight.

Ryanair to become first airline to fly to Spain's ghost airport
Budget carrier comes to rescue of Castellón airport, which opened in 2011 but lay unused for years and became an emblem of reckless spending before recession

The control tower at Castellón–Costa Azahar airport. The construction of the airport was commissioned by the politician Carlos Fabra, who is now serving jail time for tax fraud.

Ryanair is set to become the first airline to operate scheduled flights from the Spanish “ghost airport” of Castellón.

The Irish carrier will announce plans on Wednesday to fly from the airport, which cost €150m (£107m) to build but stood empty for almost four years and is widely regarded as a symbol of regional governments’ profligacy during Spain’s long-gone property boom.

Flights will link the UK and other northern European countries to the airport, which lies north of the city of Valencia on Spain’s Mediterranean coast.

Castellón–Costa Azahar airport was one of the Valencia region’s many grand and largely gratuitous building projects: the city of 800,000 people already had one airport with another in nearby Alicante serving a similar market. The city also built a Sydney-style opera house and Europe’s largest aquarium during Spain’s years of property-fuelled boom years, before the financial crisis left the country’s economy in tatters.

The airport was commissioned by the leader of Castellón province, Carlos Fabra, a member of the ruling right-wing People’s party, and was officially declared open in March 2011. Fabra is now serving time in prison for tax fraud. Fabra also commissioned a 24-metre-high copper sculpture to stand outside the airport – widely believed to be of himself – at public expense.

The first commercial flight at the airport, which is now under the management of the Canadian engineering conglomerate SNC-Lavalin, took place in January 2015 – a charter flight carrying the staff and squad of the football club Villarreal to a match in San Sebastián, northern Spain.

A Ryanair spokesman confirmed that the airline was due to hold a press conference at Castellón airport on Wednesday, but said: “Ryanair does not comment upon or engage in rumour or speculation.”

Ryanair has announced a change of strategy to start flying to more primary, city-centre airports, but their use of Castellón appears to be bucking that trend. However, the airline’s low-cost business model has long relied on securing minimal landing charges at airports across Europe, from rural France to London’s Stansted, with a pledge to deliver customers and growth.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/mar/10/ryanair-first-airline-spains-ghost-airport-castellon

Will this mean that Castellón attracts more flights, or does it reduce political pressure and criticism by attracting only a few passengers, like other airports in Spain that have slipped off the media radar due to the examples of completely unused ones? Only time will tell.

(Still, gives me a nice story for my 'A brighter future?' section of the dossier I'm currently doing!)

 

[Butts]

Can I thoroughly commend to members my wholehearted recommendation of availing themselves the opportunity to fly from Barra to Glasgow on the dear old Twin Otter that lands on the beach. (the only scheduled service to do so).

The whole "Barra Experience" is a refreshing change from today's normal Airport shenanigans. I suppose with one flight a day that comes in and leaves 20 mins later this would be expected.

The Terminal is about the size of a medium sized cafe which is what most of it is devoted to (serving lovely meals and snacks- a destination venue in itself for people to watch the plane landing and taking off).

You hand your bag over and receive your boarding pass. When asked to do so you walk through a door marked "Security" (no scans or machinery or emptying your pockets etc etc) just onto the beach and into the 18 seater aircraft.

I was sitting right behind the Pilots (within touching distance) and a clear unrestricted sight of the cockpit and out the windscreen. This afforded me a fantastic "pilots view" of the take off and landing. The weather was wonderful today and I think we were flying at about 2500-3000 feet, "The Sound of Mull" was quite spectacular. The whole experience is very edifying and restores your wonderment in the magic of flight.

Prior to boarding time I found myself at a loose end. No problem, walk across the road from the Airport and a ten minute stroll leads you onto an unspoiled beach with silver sands and not a soul in sight. Very therapeutic and a wonder to behold.

A fantastic experience and all for £26 return and 16 Flybe Reward Points.

 

[fowler9]

Can I thoroughly commend to members my wholehearted recommendation of availing themselves the opportunity to fly from Barra to Glasgow on the dear old Twin Otter that lands on the beach. (the only scheduled service to do so).

The whole "Barra Experience" is a refreshing change from today's normal Airport shenanigans. I suppose with one flight a day that comes in and leaves 20 mins later this would be expected.

The Terminal is about the size of a medium sized cafe which is what most of it is devoted to (serving lovely meals and snacks- a destination venue in itself for people to watch the plane landing and taking off).

You hand your bag over and receive your boarding pass. When asked to do so you walk through a door marked "Security" (no scans or machinery or emptying your pockets etc etc) just onto the beach and into the 18 seater aircraft.

I was sitting right behind the Pilots (within touching distance) and a clear unrestricted sight of the cockpit and out the windscreen. This afforded me a fantastic "pilots view" of the take off and landing. The weather was wonderful today and I think we were flying at about 2500-3000 feet, "The Sound of Mull" was quite spectacular. The whole experience is very edifying and restores your wonderment in the magic of flight.

Prior to boarding time I found myself at a loose end. No problem, walk across the road from the Airport and a ten minute stroll leads you onto an unspoiled beach with silver sands and not a soul in sight. Very therapeutic and a wonder to behold.

A fantastic experience and all for £26 return and 16 Flybe Reward Points.

Would love to do that. The main expense is getting to the area to do it.

 

[Butts]

Would love to do that. The main expense is getting to the area to do it.

Luckily I live in Falkirk so flying from Glasgow is not a problem. The Island of Barra is so "laid back" it's barely conscious.

My outward journey was not as pleasant as the weather was a bit iffy, but to take off and land on a beach is surreal.

When the Twin Otter lands in Glasgow it's like a Pacer turning up at an HST convention, it's so incongruous among all the "big boys"

 

[fowler9]

Luckily I live in Falkirk so flying from Glasgow is not a problem. The Island of Barra is so "laid back" it's barely conscious.

My outward journey was not as pleasant as the weather was a bit iffy, but to take off and land on a beach is surreal.

When the Twin Otter lands in Glasgow it's like a Pacer turning up at an HST convention, it's so incongruous among all the "big boys"

Ha ha. I bet. Way back in the day I once won a competition on Radio Merseyside to fly over the Blackpool Illuminations. It was on a Norman Trilander. Quite a flight. The DJ Monty Lister came on the flight with us. Weirdest plane I have been on and I have been on a few. The LAN flight on a A343 from Auckland to Santiago being one.

 

[giblets]

When the Twin Otter lands in Glasgow it's like a Pacer turning up at an HST convention, it's so incongruous among all the "big boys"

Remember taking a jetstream up to Dundee from BHX, small airport as it was, but we were dwarfed by a private jet parked up next to is (Gulf Stream) who use it for at Andrews golf course.

 

[Spamcan81]

Remember taking a jetstream up to Dundee from BHX, small airport as it was, but we were dwarfed by a private jet parked up next to is (Gulf Stream) who use it for at Andrews golf course.

Did a Jetstream from Liverpool to Ronaldsway IoM. Should have been a 146 but for some reason a Jetstream was substituted. An "interesting" flight as the weather was a tad rough. ANother Jetstream flight was from Luton to Schipol and back. Only five passengers on the way out so we all grabbed a window seat on the same side. Pilot asked two of us to swap sides to balance things out for take off.

 

[Statto]

Which site is best for just flight timetables, quite annoying most sites take you to the booking form rather than just the times?

 

[telstarbox]

Do you mean for one airport or for a specific route?

 

[me123]

Which site is best for just flight timetables, quite annoying most sites take you to the booking form rather than just the times?

It's quite hard to get timetables as such. Unlike UK rail timetables, there's no one publicly available central source of all flights on a single day (at least not that I'm aware of). As such, most airlines advertise their own and partner flights only. You used to be able to get timetable information from airport websites, but sadly it's not as prevalent any more.

I find Google Flights often gives a good idea on the overall timetable between two airports, or indeed two cities. However, again it is aimed at booking rather than being there for information, so I'm not sure if it will show you fully booked flights if you are interested in this.

 

[WestCoast]

Which site is best for just flight timetables, quite annoying most sites take you to the booking form rather than just the times?

www.flightmapper.net - use the flight search function at the top to display the times of flights on a given route.

It's not always 100% accurate or up-to-date with new services, but is fairly comprehensive.

 

[Statto]

It's quite hard to get timetables as such. Unlike UK rail timetables, there's no one publicly available central source of all flights on a single day (at least not that I'm aware of). As such, most airlines advertise their own and partner flights only. You used to be able to get timetable information from airport websites, but sadly it's not as prevalent any more.

I find Google Flights often gives a good idea on the overall timetable between two airports, or indeed two cities. However, again it is aimed at booking rather than being there for information, so I'm not sure if it will show you fully booked flights if you are interested in this.

www.flightmapper.net - use the flight search function at the top to display the times of flights on a given route.

It's not always 100% accurate or up-to-date with new services, but is fairly comprehensive.

Cheers, i did find a site last year that posted just timetables but i can't find it now.

 

[sonic2009]

I've just done Manchester - Inverness - Luton for the bargain price of £60, first time I've been on a plane in ages.

Flybe Dash for the first journey, then an Airbus A320 Easystyle.

Currently on the Virgin Voyager back home, but hasn't security changed over the years a lot more intense now.

One thing I noticed is that at Inverness when the plane departs it proceeds out to the runway traverses the whole length turns around and then takes off, anybody know why this happens?

 

[Tim R-T-C]

One thing I noticed is that at Inverness when the plane departs it proceeds out to the runway traverses the whole length turns around and then takes off, anybody know why this happens?

Assuming you departed from runway 23, the only way to get to the top of the runway is to taxi along it and turn around.

Common with a lot of smaller airports, saves on building extra taxiiways.

 

[Butts]

I've just done Manchester - Inverness - Luton for the bargain price of £60, first time I've been on a plane in ages.

Flybe Dash for the first journey, then an Airbus A320 Easystyle.

Currently on the Virgin Voyager back home, but hasn't security changed over the years a lot more intense now.

One thing I noticed is that at Inverness when the plane departs it proceeds out to the runway traverses the whole length turns around and then takes off, anybody know why this happens?

Not sure of the reason for the take off procedure - could be prevailing winds. I have known what you describe happen at several Airports.

If Security bugs you , try Barra. However I imagine Inverness was a lot easier than Manchester or Luton - certainly the proximity to the Aircraft. No 10 mile hikes aka larger establishments.

What a comedown on a Vomiter for the final leg - could you not have organised your trip from BHX as that is minutes from Coventry.

Have you been converted to Air ? On long distances it beats the train hands down - ie Anglo Scottish.

 

[Western Lord]

One thing I noticed is that at Inverness when the plane departs it proceeds out to the runway traverses the whole length turns around and then takes off, anybody know why this happens?

Aircraft have to take off into the wind, or as nearly so as possible. The prevailing winds in the UK are Southwesterly, so take offs are invariably from the Northeasterly end of the runway. Most runways in the UK run NE-SW or E-W, notable exceptions being Birmingham and Leeds/Bradford.

 

[fowler9]

Aircraft have to take off into the wind, or as nearly so as possible. The prevailing winds in the UK are Southwesterly, so take offs are invariably from the Northeasterly end of the runway. Most runways in the UK run NE-SW or E-W, notable exceptions being Birmingham and Leeds/Bradford.

Or Liverpool, actually ignore me completely, it is east to west generally.

 

[Techniquest]

Anyone able to tell me which BA craft ends in YJ? Saw it at LCY at 1241, and YJ was noted from the top of the tailfin, but I'm unsure what fills the gap in G-xxYJ!

Not been on a plane in some months, problem is that a lot of the places I would use planes for domestic flights don't fly from BHX (I'd happily enough use Ryanair or Easyjet to Aberdeen or Inverness for some trips, but Ryanair loves STN! :-x) so the places I could fly at reasonable fares to involve expensive and lengthy, awkward journeys to STN, Luton or BRS, occasionally even MAN!

 

[flymo]

Anyone able to tell me which BA craft ends in YJ? Saw it at LCY at 1241, and YJ was noted from the top of the tailfin, but I'm unsure what fills the gap in G-xxYJ!

Probably G-LCYJ. This was in LCY yesterday lunchtime after arriving as BA8462 from Ibiza. She is an Embraer ERJ-190

 

[theageofthetra]

Does anyone have a link to a list of scheduled times for intra-island flights within the Azores? The SATA website is abysmal and the normally reliable Skyscanner is incorrect. The new Ryanair routes into the islands will transform travel to/from there its just a shame that SATA seem to have a monopoly on the intra-island routes and charge so much.

 

[Techniquest]

Probably G-LCYJ. This was in LCY yesterday lunchtime after arriving in BA8462 from Ibiza. The is an Embraer ERJ-190

Ta muchly, winner for sight there then!

 

[telstarbox]

Considering going over to London City for some photos over the Easter weekend - does anyone know which day is likely to be busiest in terms of flights?