Aviation Discussion

[Bletchleyite]

I think in defence of whoever used the acronym, BA is discussed reasonably extensively here - and it appears a few here are familiar with the Flyertalk forum - and so assumed people would know WTP is World Traveller Plus, the name BA use for their premium economy cardboard box.

I used to post on there, haven't done for a long time because I was just doing too many forums. I know one person does post here using the same alias, anyone else who does can probably work out what my alias on there was given the connection with here.

 

[atillathehunn]

The Lufty E195s (expect they're all the same) have 18.25" wide seats. The BA 3-3-3 787 has 17.5" wide seats. That is quite a difference, not to mention that the E195 has no bad (middle) seats as it is a 2+2 layout.

Mind you, some of it depends on seat design. I am pretty big in most dimensions, and I flew to Canada and back with Air Canada a couple of years back, out on an older 3-3-3 777 and back on a near brand new (I think it had been in service a couple of weeks) 3-4-3 777. I actually found the seats in the latter more comfortable - mainly because the thinner backs meant more legroom, but the narrower width wasn't actually that noticeable in that case. The seats on those are 17" (same as the rather cramped Ryanair 737-800).

As for IFE boxes, yes, they get in the way, but TBH I think airlines should abolish IFE. Most people who want to take entertainment with them will have their own device, so they might as well save the cost and pass it onto the passengers in fare cuts.

I would probably agree with you on the IFE, as long as they keep the charging port for gadgets which is often part of the IFE display, and they can manage to have feasible streaming services for a larger plane load of passengers.

Many airlines are reliant on IFE screens for the safety demonstration - would they revert to manual demonstrations?

 

[atillathehunn]

I used to post on there, haven't done for a long time because I was just doing too many forums. I know one person does post here using the same alias, anyone else who does can probably work out what my alias on there was given the connection with here.

I don't post over there, but I do read. It's quite a treasure trove of information.

I believe there's one poster who uses the same alias, and another infrequent poster on here I found through their Twitter handle being posted on both fora.

The trip reports section is quite often amazing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would probably agree with you on the IFE, as long as they keep the charging port for gadgets which is often part of the IFE display, and they can manage to have feasible streaming services for a larger plane load of passengers.

At-seat power is probably very much needed, yes. Streaming services not so much[1] - just download your own content to watch on board (remembering to get some for the way back too). With things like the BBC iPlayer, assuming you have a TV licence as most people do, you don't even have to pay anything more to do that. If you do wish to pay, you of course have a huge range of options available to you.

[1] They're a nice and relatively cheap gimmick, that's all. Probably are profitable in attracting additional passengers, but not essential.

Many airlines are reliant on IFE screens for the safety demonstration - would they revert to manual demonstrations?

I would imagine so, yes. Or they could go for the "halfway house" some A320 operators use, which is to have a small number of screens which fold down out of the overhead panel for that purpose and for showing the skymap (which I am a big fan of).

 

[atillathehunn]

At-seat power is probably very much needed, yes. Streaming services not so much[1] - just download your own content to watch on board (remembering to get some for the way back too). With things like the BBC iPlayer, assuming you have a TV licence as most people do, you don't even have to pay anything more to do that. If you do wish to pay, you of course have a huge range of options available to you.

[1] They're a nice and relatively cheap gimmick, that's all. Probably are profitable in attracting additional passengers, but not essential.



I would imagine so, yes. Or they could go for the "halfway house" some A320 operators use, which is to have a small number of screens which fold down out of the overhead panel for that purpose and for showing the skymap (which I am a big fan of).

I would argue, though, that while a gimmick, withdrawing IFE with no replacement for those who: (i) forget to download (ii) don't know how to download (iii) don't have a capable device is probably commercial suicide. I would think they would need a streaming service with the intention of it being phased out within about 5 years.

Even the long haul LCCs provide some form of IFE for this reason.

While you are a seasoned traveller, there are plenty who are not. And while I'm not a seasoned traveller, I know about downloading my own stuff and I still forget/muck it up somehow.

Though on the note of the flip down screens (which KLM on their 737, BA on their A321 and A319 used on my past few flights), the BA one was refusing to play sound the other day out of London and their preparedness for doing a manual demonstration was somewhat lacking. I very much enjoy the flight map too, I hope they don't lose it.

 

[berneyarms]

I think in defence of whoever used the acronym, BA is discussed reasonably extensively here - and it appears a few here are familiar with the Flyertalk forum - and so assumed people would know WTP is World Traveller Plus, the name BA use for their premium economy cardboard box.

Well this isn't flyertalk. It's somewhere for people with a more general interest who aren't obsessed with frequent flyer miles etc.

I certainly didn't know what WTP was even after googling it.

I really don't think it too much to ask people to use full words as per the rules here.

But thank you for clarifying the acronym - much appreciated!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

As for IFE boxes, yes, they get in the way, but TBH I think airlines should abolish IFE. Most people who want to take entertainment with them will have their own device, so they might as well save the cost and pass it onto the passengers in fare cuts.

It was in the Daily Telegraph yesterday that American Airlines are removing In Flight Entertainment from their domestic fleet on the grounds that nobody really uses it any more.

However, no airline removing IFE will cut their fare. They will simply boost their margins.

 

[Butts]

Has anyone experienced the new Buy on Board that commenced on BA earlier this month.

I'd read they'd had teething problems with the process and wondered if those had been ironed out yet.

 

[miami]

BA stands for British Airways. WTP is a cabin on BA. £3k is £3,000

 

[ld0595]

Has anyone experienced the new Buy on Board that commenced on BA earlier this month.

I'd read they'd had teething problems with the process and wondered if those had been ironed out yet.

I took a flight from Heathrow to Edinburgh 2 weeks ago just after they started BoB. I didn't buy anything but I was impressed with the selection and the menu looked very well presented, but you're right in saying that had a lot of problems. They took pretty much the whole flight to get through the cabin and had a lot of issues with their equipment although I assume that the problems will be clearing up now.

 

[Techniquest]

Can't be any worse than Norwegian Air's 787s, where unless you sit in economy plus the legroom is risible. I flew LGW-JFK with them in May and while the selection of films and TV shows provided by the IFE was good, the attitude of the cabin crew stank.

Oh good, I'm not the only one who has had a bad experience with Norwegian!

 

[Butts]

I took a flight from Heathrow to Edinburgh 2 weeks ago just after they started BoB. I didn't buy anything but I was impressed with the selection and the menu looked very well presented, but you're right in saying that had a lot of problems. They took pretty much the whole flight to get through the cabin and had a lot of issues with their equipment although I assume that the problems will be clearing up now.

Would you have had anything if it had still been Free ?

 

[ld0595]

Would you have had anything if it had still been Free ?

Definitely, however this time I just grabbed something from Pret A Manger since I had a long layover in Heathrow and it was significantly cheaper. It's a shame really because I always looked forward to the hot breakfasts but there's no way I'm paying nearly £5 for a bacon roll and another £2 or so for a drink when I can get something in the airport much cheaper.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

You can get flightradar for free also, just misses out a few of the trimmings.

The removal of those trimmings from the free version is what has led to Planefinder becoming my tracker of choice. In the end it boils down to why you use such sites.

 

[gsnedders]

Quite possibly it was actually down to the higher level of cabin pressure and moisture made possible by the composite rather than aluminium structure.

I was wondering how much was down to that, but that's hard to tell really. I definitely have felt claustrophobic towards the end of long flights before (we're talking 10+ hours for this, really), and I didn't this time, and that's definitely down to the openness rather than the air.

 

[gsnedders]

I took a flight from Heathrow to Edinburgh 2 weeks ago just after they started BoB. I didn't buy anything but I was impressed with the selection and the menu looked very well presented, but you're right in saying that had a lot of problems. They took pretty much the whole flight to get through the cabin and had a lot of issues with their equipment although I assume that the problems will be clearing up now.

They had some problems with payments on my flight from Glasgow to Heathrow yesterday, FWIW. Agreed that the menu looks good and there's a good selection, though.

 

[gsnedders]

It was in the Daily Telegraph yesterday that American Airlines are removing In Flight Entertainment from their domestic fleet on the grounds that nobody really uses it any more.

However, no airline removing IFE will cut their fare. They will simply boost their margins.

I'd be interested to see usage compared on transcontinental v. transatlantic flights! That said, I know this isn't how their fleet is broken down, hence why many US–Canada routes get lie-flat beds in business class and many East Coast–West Coast flights don't.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'd be interested to see usage compared on transcontinental v. transatlantic flights! That said, I know this isn't how their fleet is broken down, hence why many US–Canada routes get lie-flat beds in business class and many East Coast–West Coast flights don't.

Which US-Canada routes have lie flat beds on AA? I can't recall any, but there are quite a few routes inside the US with lie flats. JFK-LAX*, JFK-SFO*, DFW-LAX, LAX-MIA, MIA-DFW, ORD-MIA, ORD-DFW etc etc.

(* = lie flat on every rotation, other routes have scheduled lie flats but not every rotation in the timetable)

 

[AlterEgo]

It was in the Daily Telegraph yesterday that American Airlines are removing In Flight Entertainment from their domestic fleet on the grounds that nobody really uses it any more.

However, no airline removing IFE will cut their fare. They will simply boost their margins.

AA are not removing IFE. They're removing the screens only as almost every passenger has a streaming capable device. The IFE will be streamed through the tablet, and they are upgrading their wifi.

This also only affects the forthcoming 737max fleet and not the (very many) Airbuses they use on domestic routes.

 

[atillathehunn]

They had some problems with payments on my flight from Glasgow to Heathrow yesterday, FWIW. Agreed that the menu looks good and there's a good selection, though.

I've taken four BA flights since the BOB came into being.

Usually sitting somewhere roughly in the middle of the plane (by lack, not judgement). Each time the BOB trolley has either: failed to get to anything beyond about the third row of Y seating (Club Europe is a different process), or the payment machine hasn't worked, or no catering was loaded.

On similar length EasyJet or Ryanair flights they manage to get through the entire plane with the trolley, taking far more payments.

I didn't want anything from the trolley beyond a glass of water, which I got from the cabin crew as they passed with no quibble.

 

[Butts]

I've taken four BA flights since the BOB came into being.

Usually sitting somewhere roughly in the middle of the plane (by lack, not judgement). Each time the BOB trolley has either: failed to get to anything beyond about the third row of Y seating (Club Europe is a different process), or the payment machine hasn't worked, or no catering was loaded.

On similar length EasyJet or Ryanair flights they manage to get through the entire plane with the trolley, taking far more payments.

I didn't want anything from the trolley beyond a glass of water, which I got from the cabin crew as they passed with no quibble.

Possibly due to the fact they sensibly accept cash ?

 

[atillathehunn]

Possibly due to the fact they sensibly accept cash ?

I would imagine so. I think this is the most myopic facet of their policy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do they take contactless? If so, I can't see why cash would be quicker.

If not, er, well, why not?

 

[me123]

Do they take contactless? If so, I can't see why cash would be quicker.

If not, er, well, why not?

Is contactless possible on an aircraft? (Genuine question - I don't know if it needs constant internet connectivity)

In experienced hands, cash is usually quicker than card. Of course, the problem on a plane is that they won't have enough change, the set up is far from ideal (reaching over up to two people's heads to hand over a pile of coins, for example), the cabin crew aren't full time cashiers and have other more important roles, the issue of multiple currencies (including Scottish, NI and Jersey notes) etc.

Of course, easyJet manage all this without a problem as has been pointed out.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is contactless possible on an aircraft?

Yes.

(Genuine question - I don't know if it needs constant internet connectivity)

No, it doesn't. Authorisation (which does require it) is separate from the method used to read and authenticate the actual use of the card.

In experienced hands, cash is usually quicker than card. Of course, the problem on a plane is that they won't have enough change, the set up is far from ideal (reaching over up to two people's heads to hand over a pile of coins, for example), the cabin crew aren't full time cashiers and have other more important roles, the issue of multiple currencies (including Scottish, NI and Jersey notes) etc.

And it's those things that make cards easier.

 

[ld0595]

Do they take contactless? If so, I can't see why cash would be quicker.

If not, er, well, why not?

Not as the minute but I believe that they're working on implementing contactless.

 

[WestCoast]

BA's menu doesn't seem wildly different to easyJet, to me a pre-packed sandwich or bacon roll is very much like the next one. They should definitely have full hot breakfasts to pre-order like Aer Lingus and other meals on flights of more than 3 hours. They could also offer tea/coffee/mineral water free like on SAS.

As a Manchester-based flyer with no BA Gold/Silver status there's very little incentive for me to choose BA on short-haul flights. I can pre-book an exit row and priority boarding with no status on Ryanair/easyJet and the experience is largely similar apart from the colour scheme.

 

[me123]

Yes.

No, it doesn't. Authorisation (which does require it) is separate from the method used to read and authenticate the actual use of the card.

Cool, thanks for the info.

And it's those things that make cards easier.

... I'd agree in circumstances such as on a plane. When I worked in retail, I could usually complete a cash transaction quicker than a card transaction. Set up perfectly, access to change and so on, it's my only job and I'm doing it constantly... I was certainly quicker than your average card user (contactless wasn't widespread at that time, though).

 

[Tetchytyke]

BA's menu isn't any different to EasyJet really, except to say BA's drinks menu is slightly more expensive and slightly lower quality (Schweppes vs Fever Tree tonic, for instance). It'll be interesting to see how this change works for them, it really will, especially as they've deliberately stopped cash sales on Board to avoid the cost of cash handling. I don't see it working, but hey, I'm sure the guy behind Vueling knows what he's doing

 

[atillathehunn]

Like Arctic Troll it would appear they are doing cash-free to avoid the cash handling charge?

Does anyone with experience in this field have any idea what kind of margin this fee would be? 1p in the £?

I suppose easyJet doesn't do too many non-base stops overnight, whereas BA have a fair number of their planes away from LHR/LGW/LCY overnight which might increase the charge?

Contactless would certainly make things easier, though might lead to confusion - many European countries are now contactless but I believe they don't work on other country's systems. Might have the same problem in the air.

I read recently some article about two chaps gaming the system by spending enormous amounts on duty free with maxed out cards because there was no way of checking in the air whether or not the card was good. So what kind of spending percentage loss do they assume for card fraud?