Aviation Discussion

[atillathehunn]

Would it be using the slots Virgin leased to Cobalt previously? (Latter have have since gone out of business)

Cheers

Ben

Yes it very well could be those slots. Probably get better use out of them than Cobolt did.

 

[atillathehunn]

All flights to and from Belgian airports are cancelled and airspace below a certain threshold closed. All public transport on strike and many other unions out too. I'd avoid Belgium tomorrow.

My friend squeeked out on one of the last flights for 24 hours and said Zaventem is chaos.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Airbus have confirmed that they're stopping production of the A380.

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/14/a380-airbus-to-end-production-of-superjumbo

Airbus has announced it will end production of its A380 superjumbo passenger jet after failing to secure orders – a move that puts UK jobs at risk.

The European aerospace group said it had made the “painful” decision to stop making the world’s largest superjumbo in 2021 after Emirates, the A380’s biggest customer, reduced an outstanding order for 53 planes to only 14.

Emirates will instead order 70 of the smaller A330 and A350 aircraft, underlining the trend towards smaller, more efficient aircraft that made the A380 unsustainable.

It's a real shame, the A380 is the nicest plane I've ever flown in. It knocks the likes of the A330 and B777 out of the park. But as the trend is to wedge people like sardines into smaller planes it's not a massive surprise, especially as even Emirates don't need any more.

 

[atillathehunn]

Airbus have confirmed that they're stopping production of the A380.

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/14/a380-airbus-to-end-production-of-superjumbo

It's a real shame, the A380 is the nicest plane I've ever flown in. It knocks the likes of the A330 and B777 out of the park. But as the trend is to wedge people like sardines into smaller planes it's not a massive surprise, especially as even Emirates don't need any more.

A shame as, like you say, it's the best long haul jet you can fly, but I suppose not really a surprise. Orders never materialised, and there is not really a huge second market in reality. 2 have been scrapped and though HiFly seem to keep theirs busy, not many others do.

 

[thejuggler]

Airbus have confirmed that they're stopping production of the A380.

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/14/a380-airbus-to-end-production-of-superjumbo

It's a real shame, the A380 is the nicest plane I've ever flown in. It knocks the likes of the A330 and B777 out of the park. But as the trend is to wedge people like sardines into smaller planes it's not a massive surprise, especially as even Emirates don't need any more.

Its an unfair comparison - the 777 and A330 were first conceived about 30 years ago.

The A380 is now against the 787, A350s of this world.

 

[atillathehunn]

Its an unfair comparison - the 777 and A330 were first conceived about 30 years ago.

The A380 is now against the 787, A350s of this world.

That's not really the point is it? I don't care about the technology, I am a passenger. Airlines compete with hard and soft product among other things. The A380 does compete against the A330 and B777. They are competitor products when I choose flights. Weirdly aggressive stance.

And either way, Emirates just swapped it's A380 order for A330NEO as well as A350s. So either way, I don't understand your point.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Its an unfair comparison - the 777 and A330 were first conceived about 30 years ago.

The A380 is now against the 787, A350s of this world

It's not unfair, both the B777 and A330 have updated options and are still regularly bought new. And especially with the B777 densification to 10-abreast has not been kind to it.

As for the 787, it is pretty much universally panned in economy for the reasons I've said. But I've not flown on it (and nor am I in a rush to!)

 

[atillathehunn]

It's not unfair, both the B777 and A330 have updated options and are still regularly bought new. And especially with the B777 densification to 10-abreast has not been kind to it.

As for the 787, it is pretty much universally panned in economy for the reasons I've said. But I've not flown on it (and nor am I in a rush to!)

787 is close to being brilliant. If I was flying J or F regularly it would be great. But the economy seat width for the shoulders is so tight, and certainly the airlines I flew had a massive IFE box under the seat which mutilates shins. Which is such a shame, as the air quality is so nice and the noise is noticeably reduced.

 

[Techniquest]

My last 787 experience was in Economy with BA in May 2018. I didn't find the seat to be too bad (32A on G-ZBKO I believe) but for unknown reasons it was absolutely roasting hot on that flight which made it very unenjoyable.

Other than that I like the 787s. Huge windows, super quiet and just all-round good quality long-haul craft. I like the 787 so much I chose my flights to Sydney to feature them for the majority of the outward journey, flying Etihad 787s Manchester to Abu Dhabi and onwards Abu Dhabi to Brisbane. Where I change for a Virgin Australia 737-800, which I'm quite looking forward to!

I have my first A380 experience next month, flying an Etihad Sydney to Abu Dhabi on one. I'll soon get to see what that's like and, of course, there will be a round-up of my experience in my trip report (which is scheduled to go live sometime on 17th March 2019). Will I like it, or after the best part of 15 hours on an A380 will I be ready to tear heads off? Only one way to find out!

The Etihad 777 from Abu Dhabi to Manchester will hopefully be better than the pre-refurb BA 777-200 I had from Gatwick to Toronto in May 2018, again only one way to find out!

 

[Bald Rick]

It’s no surprise. Personal view is that it was a little before its time. If the long haul aviation market continues to grow as it has done, I can see a time in 15-20 years where A380s would be more appropriate for many big flows.

What is a surprise is that Airbus are keeping their A319 line open despite not having had an order for 5 years, only 66 orders left to build, a second hand market with plenty available, and the A220 filling roughly the same market segment.

 

[gsnedders]

What is a surprise is that Airbus are keeping their A319 line open despite not having had an order for 5 years, only 66 orders left to build, a second hand market with plenty available, and the A220 filling roughly the same market segment.

But there isn't a separate A319 line. How many parts are A319-specific? When the certification costs are already borne, I imagine the marginal cost for the A319-specific parts means continuing to build it makes more sense.

 

[YorkshireBear]

A shame as, like you say, it's the best long haul jet you can fly, but I suppose not really a surprise. Orders never materialised, and there is not really a huge second market in reality. 2 have been scrapped and though HiFly seem to keep theirs busy, not many others do.

Out of interest why did two get scrapped?

 

[Bald Rick]

But there isn't a separate A319 line. How many parts are A319-specific? When the certification costs are already borne, I imagine the marginal cost for the A319-specific parts means continuing to build it makes more sense.

Well yes, I suppose that’s right.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

The issue for the A380 was network development. Airbus bet on increased demand for hub to hub flying by airlines using congested airports, Boeing, with the 787, went for point to point networks bypassing hubs. It turns out Boeing got it right even if the 787 was a nightmare in development and early service. Airbus pretty much admitted how things would turn out when they dusted down the original XWB plans to produce the current A350 to compete more directly with the 787 but it's good enough to have almost killed off the first generation 777. And unlike the 747 the A380 was entirely optimised as a passenger aircraft meaning it has no value as a freighter.

As for the A319 it's also the basis of the ACJ (Airbus Corporate Jet) and with marginal costs for producing it so low it'll likely remain in the Airbus catalogue for many years yet.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't a 319 just a shortened 320 anyway?

 

[fowler9]

Isn't a 319 just a shortened 320 anyway?

Yes, as is the 318.

 

[jopsuk]

All the 32x family, from 318 to 321, are a common platform. The fuselage is the same, the wings are the same, the cockpit is the same- the one difference is the A318s have an extension to the tail fin

747 production will almost certainly end soon- Boeing has 24 orders outstanding, and delivered 6 aircraft (all -8F) last year- in comparison Airbus delivered 12 380s, with 40 remaining (after the Emirates announcement). All the outstanding 747s are freighters; there was a freight A380 proposed but never taken beyond feasibility.

Unless someone actually orders an Il-96-400M it may be that last four engined passenger jet enters service in 2021.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Out of interest why did two get scrapped?

They are being recycled and anything remaining scrapped.

 

[atillathehunn]

Out of interest why did two get scrapped?

Their 10 year lease ended with Singapore Airlines and the owner, Dr Peters, could not find a buyer at the right price. Eventually I assume when the price for the whole unit goes too low, they might as well sell out the spare parts they can use and get scrap metal prices for the rest. I might think that given the end of the production line, the value of spare parts may one day go up quite considerably.

 

[Crawley Ben]

Despite recent route cutbacks by Norwegian, they are to launch two new summer only routes between New York & Athens (4x weekly 787, starting 02nd July - ending Oct 26th) and Chicago & Barcelona (4x weekly 787, starting 07th June - 26th October).

Cheers

Ben

 

[atillathehunn]

Despite recent route cutbacks by Norwegian, they are to launch two new summer only routes between New York & Athens (4x weekly 787, starting 02nd July - ending Oct 26th) and Chicago & Barcelona (4x weekly 787, starting 07th June - 26th October).

Cheers

Ben

Bold move. They must be confident their 787 troubles are over.

 

[flymo]

I've flown a few A380s over the years, on Emirates, British Airways, Singapore Airlines and Malaysian Airlines. As an economy passenger I would rate Emirates first, Singapore, BA then Malaysian in order of preference. MH were OK but not a patch on the others.

Couple of years ago I flew HKG - SIN - PER on Singapore Airlines and of the 4 planes flown (B777, A330 x 2 and A380) the A380 was the oldest plane of the 4; 9V-SKB. Great fun she was too.

 

[atillathehunn]

I've flown a few A380s over the years, on Emirates, British Airways, Singapore Airlines and Malaysian Airlines. As an economy passenger I would rate Emirates first, Singapore, BA then Malaysian in order of preference. MH were OK but not a patch on the others.

Couple of years ago I flew HKG - SIN - PER on Singapore Airlines and of the 4 planes flown (B777, A330 x 2 and A380) the A380 was the oldest plane of the 4; 9V-SKB. Great fun she was too.

It's odd to think how old the A380s are. They are very comfortable though, esp. upper deck economy.

 

[atillathehunn]

Blue Air, the Romanian outfit, ran into trouble this week.
Due to uncertainty over operating rights they have pulled their base at Liverpool and withdrawn their Liverpool to Rome flights (possibly another to somewhere like Alicante). But it appears to have been rather abrupt and poorly communicated leaving passengers annoyed. But probably just the first of the smaller airlines to begin suffering.

 

[atillathehunn]

And in other news, a KLM 747 took umbridge at a KLM 787 on the ground at Schiphol and swung a wing at him. Both grounded for a while.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Blue Air, the Romanian outfit, ran into trouble this week.
Due to uncertainty over operating rights they have pulled their base at Liverpool and withdrawn their Liverpool to Rome flights (possibly another to somewhere like Alicante). But it appears to have been rather abrupt and poorly communicated leaving passengers annoyed. But probably just the first of the smaller airlines to begin suffering.

I used them a while ago and found them to be good, if rather cack-handed e.g. on their website. I did however wonder if booking was a bit of a risk.

 

[ld0595]

Flybmi has collapsed tonight. Saw a few of their planes get ferried from Munich to Norwich this evening. Statement on their website here: https://www.flybmi.com/

British Midland Regional Limited, the East Midlands-based airline which operates as flybmi, has today announced that it has ceased operations and is filing for administration.
Flybmi operates 17 regional jet aircraft on routes to 25 European cities.
All flights have been cancelled with effect from today. Customers who booked directly with flybmi should contact their payment card issuer to obtain a refund for flights which have not yet taken place. Customers who have booked flybmi flights via a travel agent or one of flybmi’s codeshare partner airlines are recommended to contact their agent or airline for details of options available to them. Customers who have travel insurance should contact their travel insurance provider to find out if they are eligible to claim for cancelled flights and the procedure for doing so.

A spokesperson for flybmi said:
“It is with a heavy heart that we have made this unavoidable announcement today. The airline has faced several difficulties, including recent spikes in fuel and carbon costs, the latter arising from the EU’s recent decision to exclude UK airlines from full participation in the Emissions Trading Scheme. These issues have undermined efforts to move the airline into profit. Current trading and future prospects have also been seriously affected by the uncertainty created by the Brexit process, which has led to our inability to secure valuable flying contracts in Europe and lack of confidence around bmi’s ability to continue flying between destinations in Europe. Additionally, our situation mirrors wider difficulties in the regional airline industry which have been well documented.
“Against this background, it has become impossible for the airline’s shareholders to continue their extensive programme of funding into the business, despite investment totalling over £40m in the last six years. We sincerely regret that this course of action has become the only option open to us, but the challenges, particularly those created by Brexit, have proven to be insurmountable.
“Our employees have worked extremely hard over the last few years and we would like to thank them for their dedication to the company, as well as all our loyal customers who have flown with us over the last 6 years.”
Bmi Regional employed a total of 376 employees based in the UK, Germany, Sweden and Belgium.

 

[Techniquest]

Always sad to hear of an airline disappearing

Really good spotting session at Sheldon Country Park was had today, including a craft from Wamos Air. Definitely not a common sight in Birmingham, nor was the former Jet2 A330!

 

[FQTV]

Flybmi has collapsed tonight. Saw a few of their planes get ferried from Munich to Norwich this evening. Statement on their website here: https://www.flybmi.com/

Potentially worth noting that flybmi and Loganair are owned by the same parent company.

 

[atillathehunn]

Potentially worth noting that flybmi and Loganair are owned by the same parent company.

Loganair has made a public statement saying they are unaffected.

Sad news for all employees concerned.