Avantix replacement (previously: Arriva ditch Avantix)

[bb21]

Till rolls can still be of decent quality, and iirc I think Lothian and Trent both used to have fairly sturdy thermal print tickets, but knowing some of the train operators I wouldn't like to bet anything on them using something similar to those.

Of course it is too much to ask that the industry has a little bit of consistency, and develop a ticketing solution that can be used across board. I happened to run into one of our revenue guys today and when asked how he could remember all the different fonts and styles printed on tickets these days, he just shrugged and sighed.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Of course it is too much to ask that the industry has a little bit of consistency, and develop a ticketing solution that can be used across board. I happened to run into one of our revenue guys today and when asked how he could remember all the different fonts and styles printed on tickets these days, he just shrugged and sighed.

You can't.

Which makes detecting - and subsequently proving - forgeries and alterations even harder than ever.

A new layout has recently appeared a lot - I think from Northern TVMs - which is the "old" layout, but in a different font and with a large date in the middle akin to season tickets, but just not quite as big. The font is all scrunched up and very difficult to read.

 

[nidave]

Yes it's security paper though with Translink logos and such.

Is it? I thought it was just thermal paper.. This is from my last trip home for work

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Look at the background and I can see some type of watermark / printing on the paper.

 

[nidave]

Look at the background and I can see some type of watermark / printing on the paper.

I cant honestly remember now - it looks like you are right or it might be the printing on the reverse showing through like you get on the back of receipts - next time I am over (if I remember) I will look in more detail

 

[WelshBluebird]

So I phoned ATW as suggested by their twitter and it seems at least the customer service side of the company have no more information than what is currently on the website. So no actual date, no idea of what actually will be the policy when travelling to non ATW stations, no idea of how long the pilot will be etc etc. The guy on the phone agreed with me that it seems weird that this is supposed to be rolling out so soon yet next to no information is available.

Considering this is supposed to happen in the next two weeks or so and avantix needs to be replaced nationwide within a couple of months let's say I am worried. Surely something like this should be better thought out and coordinated?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which makes detecting - and subsequently proving - forgeries and alterations even harder than ever.

The barcode will help here - if in doubt, scan it. Hopefully it will be digitally signed in some way such that it can be proven that the barcode was not itself forged, though until we progress to true e-ticketing there will still be a risk of re-use of a copy.

 

[PermitToTravel]

The majority of TOCs (including kwvr45's) do not issue their guards with any devices capable of scanning those barcodes!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The majority of TOCs (including kwvr45's) do not issue their guards with any devices capable of scanning those barcodes!

Given the increased use of mobile tickets which use them, I would expect this to be an absolute requirement for any Avantix replacement. So at least ATW are likely to be able to scan them!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

The barcode will help here - if in doubt, scan it. Hopefully it will be digitally signed in some way such that it can be proven that the barcode was not itself forged, though until we progress to true e-ticketing there will still be a risk of re-use of a copy.

The majority of TOCs (including kwvr45's) do not issue their guards with any devices capable of scanning those barcodes!

I am told that the new machines (or at least not the ultra cheap versions) will have the facility to scan barcodes, aztec codes or anything else relevant, by using the built in camera on the phone which forms the "ticket machine".

Of course they won't be online all the time nor check every ticket scanned against the database in real time as this will not physically be possible due to the phone networks, the battery consumption and time. So visual checks will still be required.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

All on track for end of March as planned from what my line manager tells me?

Being at a sister First Group TOC I have previously been told that we are getting "whatever FGW get".

I was told today that an extension has been agreed for the use of Avantix for a further 6 months due to the replacements running late and not being ready in time.

 

[trentside]

I was told today that an extension has been agreed for the use of Avantix for a further 6 months due to the replacements running late and not being ready in time.

Doesn't surprise me. You'd also hope there would be a training period before the new machines came in, but that's probably optimistic. It'll probably be more like an A4 sheet and "get on with it"...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Of course they won't be online all the time nor check every ticket scanned against the database in real time as this will not physically be possible due to the phone networks, the battery consumption and time. So visual checks will still be required.

Hopefully the facility to upgrade to such an approach will be possible as an upgrade, as mobile coverage is getting ever better and I do believe that that will be a viable option within 10 years or so - and one with massive benefits.

In the meantime, the barcode will hopefully contain something difficult to falsify (other than simply photocopying the ticket, of course) like a digital signature.

 

[Starmill]

The majority of TOCs (including kwvr45's) do not issue their guards with any devices capable of scanning those barcodes!

Although his RPI colleagues can scan them. Including the ones printed on orange ticket stock, which TPE machines do not even produce.

 

[Sleepy]

hope it scans better than than at the moment - can take up to 5 mins to scan 1 ticket ! Not going to happen on busy paytrain route ??:roll:

 

[plymothian]

As surmised way back when the thread was started, confirmed GWR are getting STARmobile by fujitsu.

 

[sonic2009]

Is it all of ATW that use this new system? Or just valley lines?

 

[headshot119]

Is it all of ATW that use this new system? Or just valley lines?

Chester depot have been trialing at least one unit so I assume it's company wide rather than just the Valleys side.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Is there any news on this actually being used? I have not seen anything else other than the previous link discussed earlier in this thread and it certainly is now later than "mid January".

 

[Starmill]

I'd venture the view that the vast majority of Off Peak Returns screwed up in the back of anyone's wallet for 29 days are probably being illegally re-used. Most people don't use them over anything like that long a period.

You have absolutely no idea if this is true or not. Sweeping claims supported by absolutely no evidence at all.

 

[headshot119]

You have absolutely no idea if this is true or not. Sweeping claims supported by absolutely no evidence at all.

Actually a lot of it does go on, people go to great lengths to not put SVRs through ticket barriers around where I live in a hope of reusing them.

 

[Starmill]

The guy on the phone agreed with me that it seems weird that this is supposed to be rolling out so soon yet next to no information is available.

This is the railway - the recent comprehensive redesign of tickets with a myriad of different display options for the new design depending on which machine you used went without any information being given to passengers before during or after the trail. You have people turning up at a ticket office saying 'I've just picked up my tickets and they don't look right are they valid for travel?' and the staff there replying 'I don't know those aren't our machines, there's nothing I can do about it.'.

 

[LowLevel]

You have absolutely no idea if this is true or not. Sweeping claims supported by absolutely no evidence at all.

Does go on though. One of life's simpler pleasures as a conductor is checking tickets between Sheffield and Liverpool and watching the look of pain in people's eyes as you take their cheapo 'season' away from them. It's best when they tut at you or try and hold on to the ticket as you pull it out of their hands and you can smile at them to make it even better. Then a nice big mark in permanent marker.

I'd be more sympathetic if there weren't people who pay for proper seasons on board being honest so upsetting these chancers while rubbing salt into the wound is great.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Likewise I've always got my sharpie to hand when an Anytime Return gets printed out, just to scratch off the outward portion, although really any conductor worth their salt will notice an avantix printed ticket onboard the train being reused!

 

[Starmill]

Does go on though.

I can scarcely imagine that it wouldn't happen! Indeed this discussion has been done before, possibly even between you and I. Personally I think the solution is very easy, add more Day tickets and make more effort to create a product that caters for 3-day-a-week passengers while increasing the effort with extra staff / staff who've more time onboard. This is not what I was refuting. I was Saying that just because someone is making the return journey 2, 3, or 3 and a half weeks later is 'probably' illegally reusing the ticket is plain nonsense.

 

[LowLevel]

I'll concede the point gracefully

Most people rinsing it tend to be within the first week or so of validity, you're quite correct. They don't often make it to 29 days.

 

[Starmill]

I must say I can't remember the last time I needed to make the return journey more than a week later...

 

[323235]

I have used a return portion more than a week later when staying over at my fiancé's house whilst on annual leave or if there has been engineering works on a Sunday and I've gone on the bus home and got a month return on the bus (£9.00 for 90 minutes each way) and come back on the bus in the next few weeks and then used the train back with the return portion from 2-3 weeks previously.

Not everyone is cheating the system, some of us actually want to pay especially when an SOR is £11.50 for 2.5 hours each way. Bargain

 

[bunnahabhain]

This is why the anytime short return would be a good idea for flows like Sheffield to Manchester / Manchester to Liverpool.

 

[323235]

I would prefer we kept what we have, if people want to buy a short return then by all mean introduce them but with good ticket checks and barriers, abuse of Anytime Return's could be almost none, I think that any current level of abuse is only a result of lax ticketing measures.

 

[Mojo]

Look at the background and I can see some type of watermark / printing on the paper.

That's the printing on the back of the ticket.