I'm not sure if it's the way they're maintained but our depot's machines seem to do quite a lot better than anyone else's - we have a dedicated Avantix team rather than having them looked after by booking offices. There's the odd rogue where you log it on and 30 minutes later you get battery warnings or it auto non issues every other ticket because it can't detect the printer for a split second, but by and large I can complete a 10 hour shift and sell pushing for 200 transactions and not have any problems.
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Avantix replacement (previously: Arriva ditch Avantix)
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Some work well, some just like to Jam. All I'm looking for a is a machine with real time credit card auth. I'm sick of seeing declined, declined, declined. and even to swipe 7you have to wait while it says remove card (done), la la la la la la la, oh right, now tap in the card number cause if you swipe it will say no.
As an 'off the wall' suggestion, how about a very simple machine for certain routes. I have in mind a recent thread concerning a route on which masses of students travel without paying between unmanned stations because there is not time to sell them tickets. I would envisage something like an old fashioned bus conductor's Ultimate machine which could hammer out tickets at a flick of a lever - on a short self contained route it could be loaded with preprinted tickets for the route (with a simplified fare scale) along with permit to travel tickets to enable longer distance passengers to pay further in to the journey. In the old days a bus conductor using these machines could clear a double decker in the course of a ten minute journey.
tsr
Established Member
The Avantix machines currently have an option to display and reprint/sell any of the last 16 tickets, and when it works it does the job very quickly for cash payments. Cards will always take longer anyway due to the processing time, except maybe if contactless is rolled out.
In fact, if you are doing a cash payment with an Avantix machine it can actually take longer to sort out change than print a ticket.
I would hope that any new system will have a list of popular products / last 16 issues... but who knows...?
Some work well, some just like to Jam. All I'm looking for a is a machine with real time credit card auth. I'm sick of seeing declined, declined, declined. and even to swipe 7you have to wait while it says remove card (done), la la la la la la la, oh right, now tap in the card number cause if you swipe it will say no.
Not sure why you would have to type the card number in Sarah.......all I do after a declined card is simply reset the transaction and then swipe.
tsr
Established Member
That often doesn't work on Southern machines.
PermitToTravel
Established Member
The security number is only for transactions where the card is not present (e.g. telephone or online) - the details on the other side of the card are used for purchases made in person
Solent&Wessex
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When the card is swiped there is absolutely no guarantee that the TOC will get the money, even if there is money in the account.
As there is no authorisation process, when it is presented to the bank (sometime after downloading), if there are no funds in the account then it will not get paid.
Even if there is money, banks can, and sometimes do, refuse to pay it out as the correct security and authorisation process has not been followed.
It's been disabled on our machines. The only swipe you can do is if the machine tells you to or there's no chip and the swipe is done through the Thyron itself. Instead we can choose to force authorisation if it seems to just be the normal online/offline issue up to £100.
It has been reported here by some revenue staff that certain company policy either frowns upon this or explicitly forbids it. Perhaps why it's not possible without resetting the transaction?
tsr
Established Member
Southern allow swiping if the Avantix functionality allows it (or at least I've never been briefed that it's forbidden), but it rarely does. The fields for typing the card number appear at an equivalent point to swiping to obtain data anyway. Some amounts will flag up for phone authorisation but the bar is set pretty high. Because many Southern routes have very frequent stops, and the ones which don't invariably have lots of tunnels or other areas with zero phone signal, phoning for authorisation is about as much use as the proverbial chocolate flame retardant technology.
The card should be tried for Chip & PIN beforehand, but sometimes for very low value fares where you are sure the card will decline, and if you are running out of time, it can be more economical to go straight to swipe/manual entry (eg. a fare around £1-£2 with only a minute or two till the passenger alights).
There are of course some cards which force a signature on being entered in a Thyron PIN pad, usually issued to visually-impaired users or sometimes by businesses, where you have no choice in the matter anyway.
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PermitToTravel
Established Member
At the machines of many retailers a swipe will fail after a chip and PIN transaction has been attempted but the wrong PIN given (or presumably if an online authorisation has been declined). I guess resetting the transaction makes the machine forget about the previous attempt
SpacePhoenix
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Can SWT's use some of the wi-fi signal on their trains for online authorisation of cards?
Both seem like good reasons not to accept the card!
cjmillsnun
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SWT's avantix? No. Because Avantix cannot process cards on-line. It doesn't have the software routines necessary for it.
An article on the ATW website confirms that the new portable machines are being deployed from this month, and will print on till roll style paper with 2D barcodes to operate ticket gates where relevant.
The guard-issued tickets will not be accepted on LUL – not, I daresay, a material problem for ATW but could be troublesome closer to the capital...
The guard-issued tickets will not be accepted on LUL – not, I daresay, a material problem for ATW but could be troublesome closer to the capital...
Just had a look at the article, seems to be a pilot on the Valleys services ahead of a full rollout later.
Link here for anyone wishing to read:
http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/barcodetickets/
That will be interesting as I know ATW at Shrewsbury don't have barcode scanners on their gates... nor do some other stations! The barrier staff will be kept busy unless they plan on upgrading their gates (but that costs money)!
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headshot119
Established Member
I'm told by an ATW guard that's just had a go on one of these new machines that all gates across the ATW network are getting fitted ASAP. Not sure how much it's gonnah cost there are quite a few to do.
Interesting that LUL won't accept the tickets - So I buy a ticket from Cefyn-Y-Bydd to Harlow Town, I'm no longer allowed to use the underground to change from Euston to Liverpool Street.
Even though if I look it up on NRE that's what I'll be told to do. :roll:
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Sleepy
Established Member
I'm sure some TOC would be quite happy to see cross London tickets start to disappear ! So what will happen with the likes of Bures, Marlow or Mistley where the only option is to buy on board ?? :roll: Large amounts of travelcard sold on board, if this turns into rebook at mainline station RMT will be very interested in reduced members pay.
davetheguard
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Surely, just because the new tickets don't work the gates on London Underground, it doesn't mean that the ticket is not valid for cross-London transfer? I'd of thought that we will just be back to the situation when Guards had the B.R. era (S)PORTIS machines; won't work the gates, but you're let through the gate by the staff each end - as long as you've got a "+" on the ticket of course.
So, not ideal, but not the end of the world either.
plymothian
Member
Confirmation that GWR's replacement will be Android based too (probably the same as ATW as I speculated), but the implementation is behind schedule.
causton
Established Member
LM have the same solution, but I was told we would have a proper ticket printer, just with a lower capacity than the current Avantix. Probably as a large amount of Travelcards or cross-London tickets will be sold, but it remains to be seen... hopefully we have been told the system will be around in the next couple of months.
Well indeed! The medium of the ticket shouldn't matter! I've seen a handwritten Travelcard before now and apart from attracting rather perplexed looks was perfectly valid. The only problem will be with familiarity of of the new product from LU barrier staff and the hassle of having to go to said staff to enter/exit the Underground.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Traditionally one had to exchange a SPORTIS issued Travelcard for a proper one at the ticket office at the arrival London terminal.
I imagine it wouldn't be within the realms of impossibility to have a machine that scanned the barcode and produced one automatically, obviously only allowing one to be produced per barcoded ticket number.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There would be big benefits to doing this nationally - barcodes can be used on P@H, M-tickets etc. I expect we will see it.
the sniper
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A retrograde step IMO, just printing receipt style tickets on blank paper is worse than the SPORTIS solution. Not a surprise for cheapo ATW/Arriva, but hopefully other TOCs/owning groups will come through with ticket stock based solutions.
bunnahabhain
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I'm led to believe that Stagecoach companies will be going down the ATOS route, but I'm pretty sure that is also a paper roll ticket.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Probably *very* quick to print, though, unlike other solutions. This has been the main complaint about Avantix I think.
Till roll is quick to print and cheap so good for local journeys, but it has its weaknesses.
The tickets are not as durable so are more likely to get scrunched up or damaged, and in my experience scanning 2D barcodes is fiddly and slow would be a disaster at a busy station gateline. It clearly won't work well for weekly season tickets.
Perhaps there will be an option to get a re-encode onto credit-card sized stock at station ticket offices?
Whenever I've tried to use a 2D barcode ticket its always a game of trying different angles until it works on the reader.
The tickets are not as durable so are more likely to get scrunched up or damaged, and in my experience scanning 2D barcodes is fiddly and slow would be a disaster at a busy station gateline. It clearly won't work well for weekly season tickets.
Perhaps there will be an option to get a re-encode onto credit-card sized stock at station ticket offices?
Whenever I've tried to use a 2D barcode ticket its always a game of trying different angles until it works on the reader.
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