Avanti West Coast: Standard Premium

[Jimini]

Seems to have led to a minimum £25 upgrade on Seatfrog as well now (based on my last few journeys anyway).

 

[Huntergreed]

Am I the only one that actually thinks it’s pretty poor value?

Carlisle - Edinburgh/Glasgow. £9-10 for a cheap standard single, £25-30 for a standard premium single, and now about £98 for a first class anytime single (which seems to be all that’s available now this new system has started).

I can’t justify paying 2.5x the price for a slightly more spacious and desirable seat, regardless of the additional convenience.

 

[185143]

Am I the only one that actually thinks it’s pretty poor value?

Carlisle - Edinburgh/Glasgow. £9-10 for a cheap standard single, £25-30 for a standard premium single, and now about £98 for a first class anytime single (which seems to be all that’s available now this new system has started).

I can’t justify paying 2.5x the price for a slightly more spacious and desirable seat, regardless of the additional convenience.

Absolutely not. I think it's a dreadful idea.

 

[Djgr]

I will point out again that Chris Green thinks it is a dumb idea. And what's good enough for Mr Green is good enough for me!

 

[Skie]

Am I the only one that actually thinks it’s pretty poor value?

Carlisle - Edinburgh/Glasgow. £9-10 for a cheap standard single, £25-30 for a standard premium single, and now about £98 for a first class anytime single (which seems to be all that’s available now this new system has started).

I can’t justify paying 2.5x the price for a slightly more spacious and desirable seat, regardless of the additional convenience.

Yep, now that advances are available you can see their pricing model. It seems greedy, especially as the First Class service doesn't seem to be improving to compensate for the new price hikes.

 

[RailWonderer]

Standard premium seems useless if you can get full first via a Seatfrog auction. I’ve never paid more than £25 for an upgrade and I’ve scored several firsts on Avanti and LNER now the last couple of years the minimum bid often wins.

Standard premium isn’t busier than first from what I’ve seen walking through the coach at Euston before boarding, and on the journey and at my destination.

 

[Kite159]

I wonder how many people who would have previously paid for First Class will have decided to "downgrade" to Standard Premium if the only reason they upgraded was for a guaranteed table seat so they could do work on the move.

 

[Mogz]

Am I right in thinking that I the old BR system for
First Class was that the fare was 1.5x the Standard/Second Class fare but came with no food/drink?

For that you would need to go to the Restaurant or Buffet (and pay for what you consumed) or travel on a Pullman service which cost 1st Class fare plus an additional supplement?

 

[philosopher]

Am I right in thinking that I the old BR system for
First Class was that the fare was 1.5x the Standard/Second Class fare but came with no food/drink?

For that you would need to go to the Restaurant or Buffet (and pay for what you consumed) or travel on a Pullman service which cost 1st Class fare plus an additional supplement?

This sounds very much like what they do in most of Europe in terms of first class pricing and service.

 

[Mogz]

This sounds very much like what they do in most of Europe in terms of first class pricing and service.

Indeed. That’s certainly been my experience as a seasoned European rail traveller, but hinting that European style practices could come in (or rather return) is a bit of a no-no here!

Suggest that things like compartments, bistros or family carriages might be welcome in very long distance services like XC and there will be a long list of reasons provided by others as to why it might be OK for the continent or heritage lines but they’re no longer suitable for the modern UK traveller…

 

[Vespa]

I was looking ahead at Journeys from SAD to EUS and it seems to me Standard Premium is the same price Advanced 1st Class used to be roughly.

So effectively the cost of 1st Class has increased to the extent it is almost double the amount prior to the introduction of the new middle option.

Looks like the days of 1st Class cheapo travel has gone on Avanti.

I have noticed that previously if I book in advance I used to get a First Class return for roughly £78 with railcard, this time round I got quoted £135 advance return with railcard.

Looks like they're trying to price out the great unwashed and stuff them in Premium Standard and hope they be happy with it while paying the previous first class price for it.

Premium Standard appears to be poor value for what you're getting, just a......... better seat !

No lounge access, alcohol or food............pointless really.

 

[Mogz]

I have noticed that previously if I book in advance I used to get a First Class return for roughly £78 with railcard, this time round I got quoted £135 advance return with railcard.

Looks like they're trying to price out the great unwashed and stuff them in Premium Standard and hope they be happy with it while paying the previous first class price for it.

Premium Standard appears to be poor value for what you're getting, just a......... better seat !

No lounge access, alcohol or food............pointless really.

I wonder whether that may backfire on the ToC though.

When First Class passengers realise that they’re being fleeced for tea and biscuits (or even if the full meals service resumes, that’s still a hell
of a mark-up for meals on wheels) they may take the view that going in Standard Premium and bringing a picnic is a better way to do it.

 

[island]

I've heard of trains being much busier in 1st than standard premium but this is anecdotal and it's early days yet.

This also meets my experience – I expect it will start to step up next month when standard premium can be selected at time of booking as opposed to people needing to upgrade on board.

 

[takno]

I wonder whether that may backfire on the ToC though.

When First Class passengers realise that they’re being fleeced for tea and biscuits (or even if the full meals service resumes, that’s still a hell
of a mark-up for meals on wheels) they may take the view that going in Standard Premium and bringing a picnic is a better way to do it.

Overall I'd say my main objective when travelling first class is a more comfortable seat, but at all times I want to avoid drunks and people with picnics. Increasingly with seatfrog and similar discounts, first class on some trains has become the decidedly less classy end of the train. If standard premium offers a reasonably effective way of segmenting off the picnicers and drunks then so much the better. Moreover, anything that avoids "fun" auctions and apps just to buy a ticket is a huge improvement.

 

[AlterEgo]

I wonder how many people who would have previously paid for First Class will have decided to "downgrade" to Standard Premium if the only reason they upgraded was for a guaranteed table seat so they could do work on the move.

I think quite a few will be doing that, including me. Unless they improve first class significantly then the extra outlay is meaningless.

 

[Grumpy Git]

My (very limited) experience of pre-pandemic Avanti First, (Liverpool - Euston) was that the staff wanted to get the food service done and dusted as soon as possible. I think I'd finished my very small (buy tasty) fry-up before we got to Runcorn.

The "food" on the northern leg was a farce, the most depressing cheese and biscuits offering imaginable.

 

[Vespa]

Overall I'd say my main objective when travelling first class is a more comfortable seat, but at all times I want to avoid drunks and people with picnics. Increasingly with seatfrog and similar discounts, first class on some trains has become the decidedly less classy end of the train. If standard premium offers a reasonably effective way of segmenting off the picnicers and drunks then so much the better. Moreover, anything that avoids "fun" auctions and apps just to buy a ticket is a huge improvement.

Not everybody going First Class are drunks and picnickers, the same for standard class ticket holders, that's stereotyping, I personally haven't seen any drunks and picnickers in First Class and Same for standard, on rare occasions during a weekend and it got declassified, it can happen but that's standard class ticket holders but that's not quite the same thing, never heard of a declassification during midweek runs.

Football matches runs are the few occasions i have seen drunks, that's par for the course.

In any case money can't buy class, so up pricing the ticket won't necessarily improve the clientele in First Class. (In your view)

 

[Bletchleyite]

What exactly is wrong with "picnicking" on a decent spread from Marks or similar? It is almost certainly going to be nicer and of higher quality than the freebies.

 

[Grumpy Git]

What exactly is wrong with "picnicking" on a decent spread from Marks or similar? It is almost certainly going to be nicer and of higher quality than the freebies.

But why should it be better?

You don't got for tea at The Ritz and take your own jam.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But why should it be better?

I don't know, ask Avanti. But it is - quality and quantity.

You don't got for tea at The Ritz and take your own jam.

Standard Premium is more like room only at a decent quality business hotel.

 

[Vespa]

Standard Premium is more like room only at a decent quality business hotel.

A room at the Hilton no breakfast and a room in a standard clean hotel with breakfast included, I know which one I would choose, a bed is a bed by itself which I wouldn't pay a premium for, sure you get a nice carpet, curtain, exclusive wallpaper etc however a standard hotel will do more for less for same quality.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A room at the Hilton no breakfast and a room in a standard clean hotel with breakfast included, I know which one I would choose, a bed is a bed by itself which I wouldn't pay a premium for, sure you get a nice carpet, curtain, exclusive wallpaper etc however a standard hotel will do more for less for same quality.

Then Standard Premium is not for you.

One thing I don't get is why people think a product not aimed at them is a bad idea simply because they don't want it. See speedy boarding on flights etc.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

One thing I don't get is why people think a product not aimed at them is a bad idea simply because they don't want it. See speedy boarding on flights etc.

because they’re offering a tiny upgrade to a seat only and pricing it at first class prices. £30 for just a bigger seat is not in anyway good value for most journeys apart from perhaps London to Glasgow - but myself and many others are used to a £12 seatfrog with food and drink included for that, and in comparison £30 for a seat is extortion

I said First would cheapen the West Coast (sadly not in terms of fares), and they appear to have done just that. Corporate and all about profits.

 

[Grumpy Git]

I don't know, ask Avanti. But it is - quality and quantity.

My bad, I meant why shouldn't it be better? It's similar to CS spouting about "luxury" when in reality its just as cheap as possible.

E* have got it right, their "Standard Premier" is a great product and despite what I've heard others say on here, the food offering has always been very good quality, (I understand a lot of folk are only happy if they get a big portion, no matter what is being served-up).

 

[Vespa]

Then Standard Premium is not for you.

One thing I don't get is why people think a product not aimed at them is a bad idea simply because they don't want it. See speedy boarding on flights etc.

Standard premium is never going to be for me for what it costs, I may as well sit in standard.

I've paid for first post pandemic First Class ticket going London this September, so will see what the service level is, before passing judgement.

 

[Bletchleyite]

because they’re offering a tiny upgrade to a seat only and pricing it at first class prices. £30 for just a bigger seat is not in anyway good value for most journeys apart from perhaps London to Glasgow - but myself and many others are used to a £12 seatfrog with food and drink included for that, and in comparison £30 for a seat is extortion

You're perhaps of average to low height and relatively skinny? If so, it is not intended for you. You would have the same level of comfort in a Standard seat that I have in a First Class one.

I'm 6' 4", built like a rugby player and fat. It is very much intended for me and I consider it good value, and on a Pendolino to me the simple seat upgrade is a big upgrade - it's from being uncomfortable (unless I manage to get one of the priority rows and nobody next to me) to being very comfortable, not to mention the guaranteed good window view.

It's price differentiation - that's the whole point of it - they only want it to appeal to 40-whatever people per train, but they get extra money from those people.

Same with Seatfrog - you might enjoy faffing about with it to get good value, I don't. I want to know what it will cost, and I want to plonk myself in the seat and pay it.

To those for whom the Standard seat is comfortable rather than cramped I guess the other possible model for SP would work better - pay extra for First Class style food/drink service, but have it in a Standard seat? That was BR's Silver Standard and Voyager* model.

* Not 22x, the name comes from a special reservation-only class of travel on CrossCountry HSTs in the 90s, which was the TGS turned backwards (to keep others out) and had complimentary at seat service.

 

[Falcon1200]

One thing I don't get is why people think a product not aimed at them is a bad idea simply because they don't want it.

Perhaps because of unintended consequences; In my case, each year I bring my elderly Mum from Oxford to visit us in Scotland.

Then: We took advantage of Virgin/Avanti's excellent Advance First Class fares on the Birmingham/Glasgow route, in fact I had booked such tickets for June last year but had to cancel due to Covid. I myself have the great benefit of First Class Priv travel, so do not need to buy a ticket or reserve a seat, however we always found seats together.

Now: There are no First Class Advance fares (cheapest First Class Birmingham-Glasgow, midweek in September, is £214.90 - Single), and I am not allowed to book or sit in Standard Premium (I might on the day be able to, depending on seats being available and the Train Manager being amenable, but I cannot plan for that), and I do not wish to subject her to a long journey in Standard Class. And this is before taking account of Avanti's total abandonment of the Birmingham/Glasgow service, requiring a change and a wait of up to 40 minutes somewhere en route. So it looks as if we will not be making the trip at all and Avanti will lose the resulting income.

 

[Clip]

the upgrades start from £15 not £30 dont they? and thats getting nowhere near first class prices - me and the good lady are looking for our trip to london in october and will be wanting to do this as we will be eating with the kids before we leave so no need for free food and drink.

 

[Bletchleyite]

the upgrades start from £15 not £30 dont they? and thats getting nowhere near first class prices - me and the good lady are looking for our trip to london in october and will be wanting to do this as we will be eating with the kids before we leave so no need for free food and drink.

They are the old Weekend First prices but available all week. This may feel like quite a downgrade for weekends but it isn't really, the snack box and a couple of coffees don't add up to much. I suspect the Weekend First prices might have got an increase if this hadn't been done anyway, they've been where they were for a while now.

 

[williamn]

That was BR's Silver Standard and Voyager* model.

Ooooh yes, I did 'Voyager' from Exeter to Aberdeen and return in the late 90's - I remember it being rather good!