Avanti West Coast: partial ticket acceptance not advertised

[Mcr Warrior]

You clearly haven't bought a cup of tea or coffee and a biscuit on a train recently. Where can you get them at that price? They'd usually be about double that on Avanti.

Believe a cup of tea (depending on your choice of brew) is currently something like £2.40/£2.50 on Avanti, with a cup of coffee slightly more expensive at £2.60/£2.80.

Biscuits on top will obviously add to the cost.

https://www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/-/media/avanti-menus/2023-menus/shop-menu-27-march-23.pdf

 

[Starmill]

Believe a cup of tea (depending on your choice of brew) is currently something like £2.40/£2.50 on Avanti, with a cup of coffee slightly more expensive at £2.60/£2.80.

Biscuits on top will obviously add to the cost.

https://www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/-/media/avanti-menus/2023-menus/shop-menu-27-march-23.pdf

Indeed. The two together are £3.80 i.e. about twice as much as £2.

 

[8J]

TPE's onboard catering for First Class passengers differs based on whether you are travelling on a 185 operated service or a "Nova" operated service (802, 397 or Mk5A to me and you!).

I'd argue that the "Nova" product in first class is closely aligned to that found on Avanti nowadays. The last time I travelled FC on a peak time Avanti service, the offering was a toastie, similar to what TPE now offer, which now also includes alcohol on evening services.

Current TPE Nova Fleet Menu

First Class Nova Menu | First TransPennine Express

Travel First Class with us for spacious seats, power sockets and complimentary drinks. View our menu

www.tpexpress.co.uk

 

[crablab]

Because First Class includes substantial catering.

I don't understand why this is relevant?

The railway doesn't have a way to differentiate between "substantial catering" or otherwise on a first class ticket. If I buy a first class LNER ticket then then the standard of catering is dictated by the train I'm on, as published on their website. I can't pay more money for a "Dine First Class" as opposed to a "Deli First Class".

The problem seems to be that Avanti have introduced an additional class of travel (which isn't properly supported in the fares data, but that is another matter) which sits between standard and first class. Since Avanti's additional class of travel is neither standard or first, it cannot by definition be comparable to either.

The other way of looking at it is if Avanti hypothetically introduced a class of travel above first class with, I don't know private compartments or something, and called it "super class premium". Avanti obviously wouldn't accept normal first class tickets in it.

So why should it work the other way around? First class means first class. If Avanti don't want to accept the industry-wide first class tickets (including in disruption) they should not offer the first class product.

 

[Starmill]

Since Avanti's additional class of travel is neither standard or first, it cannot be definition be comparable to either.

I agree. There's no alternative way a reasonable person could look at it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 May 2023 ==

The other way of looking at it is if Avanti hypothetically introduced a class of travel above first class with, I don't know private compartments or something, and called it "super class premium". Avanti obviously wouldn't accept normal first class tickets in it.

Of course, this approach wouldn't suit Avanti, who want to imply in name that the product is Standard so that it will be covered on a technicality by corporate expenses policies. Yet more evidence of cakeism by Avanti.

 

[sot]

Has this information been shared directly with pax on for example the NR website or the TOCs journeycheck page under disruption?

What I am getting at is this asking for trouble and a disagreement between guard or TM and the pax when the first time they hear about this seemingly illegitimate restriction is from the TM on the Avanti service?

It would have been lovely to get a major issue with LNR/WMT for a few trains and then all the pax from Euston > Crewe with first class tickets get on, obviously that isn't going to happen now. Most definitely not comparable conditions but would have been lovely to see the grimace...

 

[Starmill]

Has this information been shared directly with pax on for example the NR website or the TOCs journeycheck page under disruption?

In the cases I'm aware of, it wasn't. If someone else is aware of a case where it has been I'd be interested to hear.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 May 2023 ==

What I am getting at is this asking for trouble and a disagreement between guard or TM and the pax when the first time they hear about this seemingly illegitimate restriction is from the TM on the Avanti service?

The customer will be asked to move in the first instance, yes.

 

[sot]

I am thinking that the first class ticket holding individual will be highly dissatisfied when the TM walks up and informs them of this.

I would ask then as a customer where was this stated beforehand or can you show or direct me to something that tells me this is acceptable such as NR or RDG documents. I am unsure if they would then show this aforementioned internal memo.

It then promotes further pondering around:

- Application of PF (could this happen if the other TOC is a PF TOC?)
- Threat of BTP
- Threat of court action
- Threat of taking down of particulars

If the passenger refuses to play ball.

 

[185143]

I am thinking that the first class ticket holding individual will be highly dissatisfied when the TM walks up and informs them of this.

I would ask then as a customer where was this stated beforehand or can you show or direct me to something that tells me this is acceptable such as NR or RDG documents. I am unsure if they would then show this aforementioned internal memo.

It then promotes further pondering around:

- Application of PF (could this happen if the other TOC is a PF TOC?)
- Threat of BTP
- Threat of court action
- Threat of taking down of particulars

If the passenger refuses to play ball.

No, as a PF is determined by the train you're travelling on. Any tickets held are irrelevant if a PF is being issued.

I'd love to see the Daily Mail get hold of a headline along the lines of "passenger hauled before a magistrate for sitting in 1st class after having paid for a 1st class ticket" or similar, quite frankly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Avanti is not a PF TOC therefore one cannot be issued with regard to travel on their services.

 

[Falcon1200]

That risk arises in standard class as well during disruption; do Avanti's First Class passengers deserve extra protection.

It could perhaps be argued that, having paid much higher fares than Standard Class passengers, yes they do! Especially perhaps given the relative proportion of Standard versus First class seating on Avanti's trains.

 

[Leisurefirst]

Due on a Grand Central service today with two Seatfrog upgrades.
Have asked GC whether will be honoured on LNER.
Been told yes and specifically "full offering".
I do hope so.
Travelling with somebody who needs to be seated with no drama so have reserved two seats on LNER train accordingly.

 

[yorkie]

Due on a Grand Central service today with two Seatfrog upgrades.
Have asked GC whether will be honoured on LNER.
Been told yes and specifically "full offering".
I do hope so.
Travelling with somebody who needs to be seated with no drama so have reserved two seats on LNER train accordingly.

It's only Avanti who attempt to do the nonsense described in this thread; LNER won't try that on.

You can relax